Phoned a guy today about a class 1 tipper job, tramping all week. Asked the guy how much he was paying and the answer was , I like to pay what will keep the driver here and happy. So I asked what the other drivers were on and he skirted round it 
Told him that could cause animosity between the drivers, again he skirted round the subject. bit of mixed feelings on this one, shall I just go see him and tell him I want a grand a week and see what he comes down to 
Sounds like your entering barter territory. Yes,start high and work your way down. If you go a grand,he’ll come back with £500. Laugh in his face and let the fun begin!
kiwitaff:
shall I just go see him and tell him I want a grand a week and see what he comes down to
I reckon you should, and then report back here on the outcome 
Time to be a big boy/girl. Go and see him, show him why you would be a valuable addition to his staff. Don’t be embarrassed about it, he certainly won’t be.
Let’s face it, the only reason having different wages causes animosity, is because people are daft enough to tell each other what they earn, and then are surprised, that some other people earn more.
F-reds:
Time to be a big boy/girl. Go and see him, show him why you would be a valuable addition to his staff. Don’t be embarrassed about it, he certainly won’t be.Let’s face it, the only reason having different wages causes animosity, is because people are daft enough to tell each other what they earn, and then are surprised, that some other people earn more.
+1
I’ve fought a few battles in my time, sometimes for money, but more often for t’s and c’s, and won, whereas other workmates haven’t bothered fighting for either.
On one occasion, there was a parking issue, and I fought and won it in my favour, but nobody else did, it was found out that I wasn’t paying to park and then people were angry at ME because I wasn’t paying?? 
waynedl:
F-reds:
Time to be a big boy/girl. Go and see him, show him why you would be a valuable addition to his staff. Don’t be embarrassed about it, he certainly won’t be.Let’s face it, the only reason having different wages causes animosity, is because people are daft enough to tell each other what they earn, and then are surprised, that some other people earn more.
+1
I’ve fought a few battles in my time, sometimes for money, but more often for t’s and c’s, and won, whereas other workmates haven’t bothered fighting for either.
On one occasion, there was a parking issue, and I fought and won it in my favour, but nobody else did, it was found out that I wasn’t paying to park and then people were angry at ME because I wasn’t paying??
And there in lies the problem with the Driver pay & conditions fiasco we have today, I’m alright jack 
Though after being a (unofficial non union firm) shop steward/driver rep for 7 years, I would now only look after myself too. No matter how hard you work (spend on your own phone making calls) to improve pay and conditions, how many times you ask drivers to get unionised, they wont stick together, and can all do it better, til you turn and say, “go on then, I don’t need this ■■■■”. And frankly, a lot of driver aren’t worth the minimum wage let alone £10 an hr + but I always believed that together there was strength and secretly still do 
Well foreign drivers negotiate their own pay don’t they? People who are doing this job to boost their other earnings from their proper job will negotiate their own rate as do different agencies so I don’t see the difference. Unions pah never happen here, you need to be a French lorry driver, now that is how to stick together and get better pay and conditions.
so what is the ‘wage’ in france for a hgv driver then?
war1974:
so what is the ‘wage’ in france for a hgv driver then?
According to this article 9.61 euros /hour but they get lots of perks as I lived in Lyon and the routiers trucker stops do fantastic meals, nice b&b hot shower etc for a very cheap rate. They also have a good pension which is why they were striking to get retirement at 55 as they get 75% of their wage for life in France.
must admit the whole set up for hgv drivers abroad is far far better than the uk. personally I don’t think the wages are that great mind considering.
what does make a difference is the property prices.
When I lived there food was great because they tax convenience crappy food but reduce prices on good food to promote healthy eating so you could live very cheaply. We used buy horse meat and make Spaghetti Bolognese, Stews, Hotpots and it was great There were 4 of us and the flat was paid by the company so all our wages went into the bank back in England. Really good way to set yourself up as it is amazing hoe much you save in a year.
alder:
Well foreign drivers negotiate their own pay don’t they? People who are doing this job to boost their other earnings from their proper job will negotiate their own rate as do different agencies so I don’t see the difference. Unions pah never happen here, you need to be a French lorry driver, now that is how to stick together and get better pay and conditions.
So you start by justifying the I’m alright Jack attitude, but then praise a bunch off workers who’ve had the solidarity to stick together and improve or keep their conditions. So what is your attitude, granted British drivers/workers have never stuck together, but it doesn’t make wanting to be unified and speaking with one voice wrong
Are these people real. 440 take home for a full week tramping, He asked what I thought. so told him he is about ten years behind everyone else. There was 30 night out money in that aswell, so take that off is 320, for 70 hours work 4.50 per hour and he’s got boys doing this for him. When are ■■■■■■■■ drivers gonna see the light and turn this crap down so we can get the money up for our industry
for me my attitude is if they wont put the rates on or wont disclose straight away, then they are ■■■■.
kiwitaff:
Are these people real. 440 take home for a full week tramping, He asked what I thought. so told him he is about ten years behind everyone else. There was 30 night out money in that aswell, so take that off is 320, for 70 hours work 4.50 per hour
So much for negotiating your own money
Drivers will keep accepting it, because they don’t get together to collectively negotiate. One driver asking for a pay rise will be told “you know where the door is”, or “what makes you so special”. 9 out of 10, or 19 out off 20 etc, going to negotiate turns the table on the boss, not many who can afford to shut the gates. So then they will sit down and talk seriously about wages. But you have to be prepared for a few home truths, as its also a chance for the boss to negotiate a few changes in work practices, but in the end, this becomes a fruitful exercise for all
But Hey
alder:
Unions pah never happen here, .
Because We’ve stopped trying, mainly because those that did, got fed up hearing the sound of their lone voice echoing, in a void off antipathy left by their absent colleagues
But hey what do I know
alder:
Unions pah .
If you work for a major employer Eddie snax, then yes, maybe I can see your point.
But I don’t. I never intend to. I don’t need a “lowest common denominator” to tell me how to work or how much I should earn for that work.
As such, no one else in the company I work at has my exact skill set. Equally I don’t have the exact skill set as any of the others. We all have different work loads, customers, and different patches, so why would I want the same wage or T&Cs as one of the other drivers?
If you came to work for the same company as me, I would help you out all day long, show you how I do the job, teach you any tricks I know. But how you end up doing the job, is up to you.
Therefore your value to the company would different to mine, it could be more than mine, it could be less. But don’t expect me to stand by your side and say “hey gaffer, Eddie’s working bloody hard at minute, and so am I, don’t you think we are worth more?”
Because if I thought I was worth more, I’d have said so to him in a grown up, adult discussion, and if we couldn’t come to an agreement, I would be up the road in a new job.
kiwitaff:
Are these people real. 440 take home for a full week tramping, He asked what I thought. so told him he is about ten years behind everyone else. There was 30 night out money in that aswell, so take that off is 320, for 70 hours work 4.50 per hour
U got the job?
F-reds:
If you work for a major employer Eddie snax, then yes, maybe I can see your point.But I don’t. I never intend to. I don’t need a “lowest common denominator” to tell me how to work or how much I should earn for that work.
As such, no one else in the company I work at has my exact skill set. Equally I don’t have the exact skill set as any of the others. We all have different work loads, customers, and different patches, so why would I want the same wage or T&Cs as one of the other drivers?
If you came to work for the same company as me, I would help you out all day long, show you how I do the job, teach you any tricks I know. But how you end up doing the job, is up to you.
Therefore your value to the company would different to mine, it could be more than mine, it could be less. But don’t expect me to stand by your side and say “hey gaffer, Eddie’s working bloody hard at minute, and so am I, don’t you think we are worth more?”
Because if I thought I was worth more, I’d have said so to him in a grown up, adult discussion, and if we couldn’t come to an agreement, I would be up the road in a new job.
And none off what you have said I would disagree with. apart from lowest common denominator telling you how to work or earn, its not about dragging every one down, I believe that collectively you raise everyone up
When I was being Driver rep, the company was a small family concern of about 25 drivers. There was no threatening action and all that sort of rhetoric, I’ve always thought that to be counter productive. Grown up adult discussion always the best way
After being nominated as the mouth piece, (after a night out with about 10 of the other drivers), I composed a list of request/suggestions that I took to the boss, He was more than happy to meet, and intimated that he wondered why no one had done it before(I’d been there 3 yrs at this point). I carried on being rep for about 7 yrs, but after a year or 2, some other drivers started to think that I was some kind off agony aunt, and others thought I was selling them out. The Boss would want to know why My colleagues were this that or the other, and I thought that I was being scrutinised more than other drivers, especially in the run up to Easter(when we did pay negotiations). But at least pay and conditions were improved, but as you suggest, it had to be a one size fits all, as opposed to tailored packages for the different types of work we were doing.
After I left there, I ended up working for a start up company, so negotiated a wage with My new boss for Me , and then for the other guy he took on shortly after
So don’t think that I’m one off those jobs worth logistic monkeys, even though that is precisely what I am now(though not jobsworth). I wont be doing driver rep/shop stewarding though, as I don’t think its worth the hassle but I do think it can produce worth while results