Olog Hai:
Conor:
Nothing to see here other than a dumbass blog poster getting it wrong and an idiot who believes everything they read on the interwibble on blogs written by nobodies is true because Tory Government.
Hmm.
Conor:
Man made global warming is a massive lie concocted and exploited by governments and business to extort money out of us.
East Anglia University Climate Research Unit, the world leaders, have falsified data and have outright lied to everyone.
You make it so easy at times, Conor. Isn’t it time for another flounce yet?
Conor’s signature just cracks me up, I doubt he could find one single person with an education in a scientific subject, anywhere in the world, who would agree with him. It just goes to show that we should be listening that fat mouth-breather in the Tesco RDC waiting room if we want to know what’s what. 
Harry Monk:
Conor’s signature just cracks me up, I doubt he could find one single person with an education in a scientific subject, anywhere in the world, who would agree with him.
For me it invokes this sort of image: 
Radar19:
So someone explain to this idiot what all this means. I get paid £26 a night for nights away in the cab. Will I still receive that or will I now be taxed on it?
Two completely separate questions there (although admittedly it would be difficult to be taxed on it if you were not receiving it in the first place…)
Conor:
hardyd44:
For once the RHA seems to be getting of their backsides
accountancyage.com/2016/03/ … up-claims/
From the website:
“The RHA notes that although termination of dispensation rules will occur from 6 April, the historical agreement between HMRC and lorry drivers in regards to overnight expenses will continue. According to the trade group, the taxman continues to display on their website that the agreement will not be continuing.”
“There is no change to the system. Drivers have to be genuinely away in their cabs overnight – in a genuine subsistence position – but nothing further is required.”
““I fear that many hauliers, from the smallest to the very large, may have been told there are changes when there are none; that a more complicated system is being imposed, when that is not the case,” continued Semple”
…and like the dumbass blog poster which Tiredandemotional linked to who seems to also think its coming to an end. Then again in his list of credentials he does say he is a DCPC trainer so we should expect no less than bollox of this magnitude.
So all that has happened is HMRC didn’t update their website to reflect the fact the agreement isn’t changing. There is no requirements for receipts, carry on as before.
Nothing to see here other than a dumbass blog pThe link is 2016 and out of date. I was at an RHA briefing on Monday night and HMRC are pushing through with it. Hence I changed the structure of overnight payments.oster getting it wrong and an idiot who believes everything they read on the interwibble on blogs written by nobodies is true because Tory Government. Please move along.
Quote from Albions post below. Ok knobhead?
The link is 2016 and out of date. I was at an RHA briefing on Monday night and HMRC are pushing through with it. Hence I changed the structure of overnight payments.
xfmatt:
robroy:
Would this have anything to do with the recent rebates many lads have been getting, some up to about 3 grand, or just a coincidence.
:
Exactly my thoughts. People were making historic claims dating back upto 4 years for everything other than the kitchen sink (maps,sat macs, tv’s, bedding etc) and without any proof whatsoever. I think this is HMRC responding to such claims!
Matt
The taxman doesn’t take getting rolled over lightly.
The items you have mentioned are legitimate claims, but surely they were covered with the tax free night out money these drivers would already have received, so effectively the taxman might consider that they have exempted drivers from tax twice.
All the cost incurred in doing this job, and I include supply and launder of my bedding, maps, and sat nav, tv, extra charge on my car insurance, it being parked other than at its insured address over night. Wash bag towels and paying for showers. Cost of my mobile phone, and internet dongle, subs to my union. Cost of meals away from cab, and for in cab the supply and up keep of canteen pots pans crockery cutlery washing up bowl and detergent, and much more that I’m creatively thinking about, at present I consider are covered by the tax exempt night out money, if the tax exemption is removed then I will seek the advice of an accountant. Not because I don’t want to pay my fare share of tax, but because I should not have to pay tax on items/costs that I either require because of my work, or I require to double up on because I spend my life in 2 different places because of my work, simples
cav551:
This is not on and drivers should be talking about doing something other than whingeing about it…
Anyone on a good enough rate to get over £865 gross including night out allowance in any week is going to find himself being taxed at 40 %.
Yes I was thinking that too, if my night out were raised to cover the tax deduction, then I’d not be to far away. I wouldn’t be wanting too many weekend shifts to send me over 
Here is the latest on this nonsense - try writing to you MP
HMRC has told us (RHA) it will take a hard line on implementation of the new requirements on lorry drivers’ overnight allowances and that hauliers must have an agreement in place to pay the allowance free of tax and National Insurance from tomorrow, April 6. The RHA has written to HMRC minister Jane Ellison at HM Treasury, urging that the new arrangements be suspended as they are in breach of an undertaken given to the RHA in February 2015. Many members have also written to their MPs in similar vein and we will be seeing some of those MPs when the current recess ends in two weeks’ time. An updated guide to the allowance, with clarifications from HMRC and including possible impact on tax credits is available on the link
rha.uk.net/getmedia/45d462a … n.pdf.aspx
cav551:
Anyone on a good enough rate to get over £865 gross including night out allowance in any week is going to find himself being taxed at 40 %.
You’ll only pay 40% on anything over £45,000 and 20% on the bit up to £45,000. Not something that affects me!
So what HMRC is saying is that you will be taxed on night out money and will have to wait until January 2019 until a rebate is paid to cover the excess tax paid.
These Whitehall mandarins need hiting hard right where it hurts. Empty shelves and no fuel at the pumps. Serious talk even of this possibility should concentrate the mind
I think HMRC have been stopping various allowances in many industries over the last few years and they’ve got round to haulage and night out money.
Basically they’re looking at anything where they can get some revenue from taxing it, and as Robroy has stated, if your part part of the elite (political financial or business) you are allowed to screw the system, but if you’re an ordinary working person they’ll do everything to get the last penny out of you. 
I’ve worked on a system of claiming expenses and producing receipts for the last few years, but I have time to sit in an office and sort out my expenses between trips, unlikely to be possible for most drivers. It also means I don’t get any tax free allowance on top of my wages, which is ok as I knew that when I took the jobs, but if HMRC decide that the night out money doesn’t reflect what is being spent and cut it, then those employers and drivers who take night out money as part of thier take home money will need to rethink their pay package, maybe by doing what Albion has done and give a taxable inconvienience allowance, but knowing how haulage works the bottom end of the market will just drop the payment and drivers will moan but do nothing about it.
The way i understand the new rules on subsistence money, or dark money, is that whatever amount you are presently receiving will continue. You will be taxed on it as if it was earned income, but your employer will put a higher figure through the books so that you will still receive the same “net” amount as you do now.
The downside this, is the fact that full time trampers at the top end of the pay scale might trigger 40% tax if they exceed £45,000. This is quite an achievable figure once the tax and NI is added to night out money.
This needs addressing and soon methinks!
My understanding is that it won’t be taxed as long as you can provide receipts. HMRC are entitled to ask receipts as proof that night out money has been genuinely earned rather than a method of avoiding tax.
Albions Trucking Co decided that is difficult to do as receips are not always obtainable and the faff of retaining them and marking them up against a particular driver on a particular night was going to do the finance guys head in.
I’m not aware that employers have to pay a higher amount that once taxed will be equivalent to the nett amount, though some may choose to. Some definitely won’t.
Maosters confident prediction #1; not a single driver on this forum will be monetarily affected by this change. 
the maoster:
Maosters confident prediction #1; not a single driver on this forum will be monetarily affected by this change.
My thoughts are like yours, either the night subsistence will remain, or if it is changed to a receipt based claims system, then either decent companies will increase subsistence payments to compensate driver’s, there by being ahead of the curve to atract and keep decent driver’s. Driver’s at less enlightened firms, will have to get switched on to keeping receipt, and then claim back for everything, maybe with the help of an accountant.
There is though one possible gain to this, anyone after getting a mortgage, will get an increase in the taxable income, this unlike tax free night out money maybe included by your mortgage provider when accessing your mortgage application.
On the downside, any driver claiming tax credits will probably lose them, though I’m sure that not many tramper will have as low an income as to qualify for tax credit !!!
maoster, I think that was dated March 2016?
As i say, I went to an RHA briefing last Monday (03/04/17) and it was very clear that the RHA’s interpretation is that receipts are required, although the Operator can keep a random sample as proof. They are still bickering with HMRC about the requirement.
Not sure of the date tbh Albion, it just popped up on Faceache. I still stand by my assertion that none of us (well, maybe you operators ) will be hit financially.
It is March 2016, I was being polite 
.
Yeah, I don’t think it is aimed at drivers at all, so I agree. Our new system will probably cost us about 7k, but we don’t do much in the way of nights out, a lot of our nights away are in hotels anyway.
It will be a cost to hauliers if they either a. adopt our system and make it a taxable payment, or b. have to spend time collating fiddly bits of paper and filing them.
Of course, the more conspiratoral amongst the drivers might think, hang on…the two biggest spends for a company is fuel and driver wages…which one will they be able to suppress the most to make up for this additional work/tax payment…
albion:
It is March 2016, I was being polite .
Yeah, I don’t think it is aimed at drivers at all, so I agree. Our new system will probably cost us about 7k, but we don’t do much in the way of nights out, a lot of our nights away are in hotels anyway.
It will be a cost to hauliers if they either a. adopt our system and make it a taxable payment, or b. have to spend time collating fiddly bits of paper and filing them.
Of course, the more conspiratoral amongst the drivers might think, hang on…the two biggest spends for a company is fuel and driver wages…which one will they be able to suppress the most to make up for this additional work/tax payment…
Fortuately no ‘Conspiracy Theorists’ even contribute to TNUK. .
Or do they?
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