cieranc:
IIRC JCB tried to get type approval as a goods vehicle but it was declined/failed.
I’ll see if I can dig out the consultation papers on it.
Person who refused had probably driven one of their 710 dumptrucks 
Only Hydrema make/made worse.
jetemp:
. but if they bring in testing to the standard of hgvs fast tractor running costs will go through the roof and be unsustainable!!!James
why do you think fast tractors shouldn’t be maintained and tested to the same standards as HGV’s ?
Denis F:
jetemp:
. but if they bring in testing to the standard of hgvs fast tractor running costs will go through the roof and be unsustainable!!!James
why do you think fast tractors shouldn’t be maintained and tested to the same standards as HGV’s ?
+1
I can’t see any problems with taking a Fast Track for test, or rather a roadworthiness.
IF the 4x4 system can handle the rollers (which I would assume it can, as the centre diff must have a bit of give in it for high speed use). I would think the headlights, although type approved for UK work, won’t line up with the beemers in the test station.
But a roadworthiness test can still be carried out. £95 for 2 axles innit?
If nothing else, it’s peace of mind the brakes/emissions are right (emissions can give early warning of engine problems).
I do think fast tractors should be maintained to the same standard as hgvs, i was trying to say that if they went for 6 weekly checks etc.ontop of the present running costs that there running costs would go through the roof relative terms to an hgv. Agricultural machinery are seem to be built ‘weeker’ than commercial and industrial equipment.
Tractor dealers think nothing about charging £90/hour for maintanence and then charging the earth for parts call out fees etc. Dont know what new truck price has been like over the last couple of years but farm machinery price seems to haven dramatically risen everytime you ask for prices.
James
As I see it fast tractors are a heavy goods vehicle the same as a lorry.Therefore they should come under the same legislation when operating on the public highway as lorries.
Dave the Renegade:
As I see it fast tractors are a heavy goods vehicle the same as a lorry.Therefore they should come under the same legislation when operating on the public highway as lorries.
There is a big difference between 40kph and 56mph and 23 tons and 44 tons. The haulage industry are about to get 2 metre longer trailers as part of a trial and some 1 metre longer, this is a recognising by the relevant authorities that times change, i just wish they would look at tractors and trailers too.
puntabrava there is a big difference between the weights and speed that you mention but we have already been told on this thread about the fendt doing 45mph when legally it should only be travelling at 20 mph, if we had hgv breaking the speed limit to the same degree they would be travelling at 0ver 120 mph on a motorway and there would be a ttotal outcry by the general public. if the fendt that has had its picture posted on here burst/split one of the hydraulic pipes to the steering ram it would be left with absolutely no steerig, which may cause fatal accident. I just hope its not my wife and kids that are in the way, There woudl also be a high likely hood that it would be grossing more than the legal gross weight for a tractor.
James
jetemp:
Tractor dealers think nothing about charging £90/hour for maintanence and then charging the earth for parts call out fees etc. James
Thats ridiculous! They are only charging that because they have the monopoly on it.
Main dealer rates in Teesside are not over the £60/hour mark. Iveco NET+V at Billingham is £54, Merc Bells Cowpen Lane £56, MAN at Stockton £48.
From the private commercial workshops, TEXA produce a diagnostics machine that is compatible with nearly all HGV and agri stuff, as well as marine engine, some aero engines, cars and motorbikes. They are by far the most versatile diagnostic machine. Again, private commercial workshops could maintain your agri plant to agri dealer level if required.
Call out wise, we charge £32/hour service van rate, no call out, just hourly (back to base) rate. I don’t know what the dealers charge, never used them.
I looked into the diagnostics side on agri, as we’ve been contemplating buying a Fastrac to build on as a winch tractor.
jetemp:
puntabrava there is a big difference between the weights and speed that you mention but we have already been told on this thread about the fendt doing 45mph when legally it should only be travelling at 20 mph, if we had hgv breaking the speed limit to the same degree they would be travelling at 0ver 120 mph on a motorway and there would be a ttotal outcry by the general public. if the fendt that has had its picture posted on here burst/split one of the hydraulic pipes to the steering ram it would be left with absolutely no steerig, which may cause fatal accident. I just hope its not my wife and kids that are in the way, There woudl also be a high likely hood that it would be grossing more than the legal gross weight for a tractor.James
And if that steering rod lock nut in wheel tappers pic came undone it would be the same scenario of either into people or a crash barrier. You can if & and till 2013 but it alteres nothing. The UK is way behind in relation to many countries including Germany with 35 ton weight limits and 60kph speeds for tractors that pass annual mot type tests. Anyways i have my class 1 test next week and my o licence application is in
The current construction and use regs for road vehicles state a mechanical linkage between steering wheel and road wheels.
As I understand it, a Fastrac has this. A normal tractor hydro steering would not comply with these regs.
So the analogy of a draglink lock nut coming undone bears no differentiation between a Fastrac and an Artic, they both have the same steering system.
The steering valves on my old Leyland 904 were that worn that, you could steer to full lock and not know it, the steering wheel would just keep going round and round 
Ciranc is correct in as much as the reason that fastracs and unimogs are the only LEGAL tractors able to travel faster than 30kph is that they meet certain construction and use criteria one of which being that there is a direct link between the steering wheel and the steering axle i.e. that there steeing is through a steering box and not hydrostatic as in a normal tractor.
How do the oil emersed brakes on some tractors meet the minimum efficiency required to travel above 30 kph on the road. As im sure many the farming comunity on here will have reaf o farming forum, if you take the majority of brand new agricultural trailers over a set of brake rollers they do not meet the eficiency required to travel at speed.
The usual argument put up by the farming comunity with respect to speed is that they can buy a car that is capable of travelling fatser than 70 mph which is correct but the haulage industry has speed limiters placed on each vehicle that goes on the road, so why not the agricultural industry.
James
I would agree jetemps, manufacturers are the main problem with regards to kit not being fit to run at higher speeds, a lot of the NEW stuff out there is overpriced ■■■■■■ we had to get our kit specially built to be legal at 50k - commercial axles, air brakes etc, and would be quite happy to put our stuff through an MOT etc.
■■■■■■ me off somewhat when we’re undercut by folk running old Fraser or Marshall trailers without even hydraulic brakes on the back of a new tractor with a 50k box, reckon if VOSA could be @rsed they could keep themselves funded for the next 10yrs.
puntabrava:
Dave the Renegade:
As I see it fast tractors are a heavy goods vehicle the same as a lorry.Therefore they should come under the same legislation when operating on the public highway as lorries.There is a big difference between 40kph and 56mph and 23 tons and 44 tons. The haulage industry are about to get 2 metre longer trailers as part of a trial and some 1 metre longer, this is a recognising by the relevant authorities that times change, i just wish they would look at tractors and trailers too.
24.390 is the max gross weight for a tractor and whatever its pulling.Most are way over the top puntabrava.I live in one of the biggest potato growing areas in the UK.I am also a transport manager.
Dave the Renegade:
puntabrava:
Dave the Renegade:
As I see it fast tractors are a heavy goods vehicle the same as a lorry.Therefore they should come under the same legislation when operating on the public highway as lorries.There is a big difference between 40kph and 56mph and 23 tons and 44 tons. The haulage industry are about to get 2 metre longer trailers as part of a trial and some 1 metre longer, this is a recognising by the relevant authorities that times change, i just wish they would look at tractors and trailers too.
24.390 is the max gross weight for a tractor and whatever its pulling.Most are way over the top puntabrava.I live in one of the biggest potato growing areas in the UK.I am also a transport manager.
I dont know about ‘most’ but a few would be, including Challengers and cultivators. Just need to be allowed the same rights as some of our continental friends.
puntabrave i think you will find that a challenger and trailed cultivator comes under a different set of legislation as the cultivator is classed asan agricutltural trailed appliance. I would be very careful in wishing to be allowed the same legislation as some of our european counteparts, by which i am assuming that you mean the germans, if you want to loose rebated fuels etc. like them then great but i cant see many farmers supporting you, you cant just pick the legislation that you want from ither countries and forget the bits you dont like, i believe that the germans have different license requirements for tractors aswell, i may be wrong though.
The germans also i believe (never driven in germany) have no speed limits on certain autobahns, cant see that happening in this country can you, in much the same way that altering the legislation for farm vehicles on the road wont be that far up the list for the curent government (theyve probably got enough on their plate?). Like it or lump it wether you agree with it or not the current legislation is what weve got at the moment and the forseable future. Is it really going to take a fatality for the law to be enforced in various areas ■■?
James
jetemp:
puntabrave i think you will find that a challenger and trailed cultivator comes under a different set of legislation as the cultivator is classed asan agricutltural trailed appliance. I would be very careful in wishing to be allowed the same legislation as some of our european counteparts, by which i am assuming that you mean the germans, if you want to loose rebated fuels etc. like them then great but i cant see many farmers supporting you, you cant just pick the legislation that you want from ither countries and forget the bits you dont like, i believe that the germans have different license requirements for tractors aswell, i may be wrong though.The germans also i believe (never driven in germany) have no speed limits on certain autobahns, cant see that happening in this country can you, in much the same way that altering the legislation for farm vehicles on the road wont be that far up the list for the curent government (theyve probably got enough on their plate?). Like it or lump it wether you agree with it or not the current legislation is what weve got at the moment and the forseable future. Is it really going to take a fatality for the law to be enforced in various areas ■■?
James
I think you will find that the 24360kg encompasses the total combined weight of the machine and anything attached, i would go and read a bit more on the subject. I have said nothing about picking bits of legislation i want and bits i dont want, i would accept the German rules in full, read what i post properly. As for ‘‘current rules being with us for the forseeable future’’ you would have not one idea whether this will be the case or not.
Puntabrave I would have as much an idea that they are with us for the forseable future as you have that they would change, how many years does it take to get a change of law through the various parlients house of lords and consultation period etc. so i think i could think i could take a fair punt on it that there would be no change in the next 5 years but i might be wrong!!! You can only work to the legislation onfron ofyou not what ypu think may happen??
As to gross weights id suggest that you go and talk to mike braithwait (An ex traffic copper who advices most police forcies on agricltural traffic law) and find out about the differences between trailed aplliances and trailers. Does my trailed cultivator legally need brakes,? (i do know the answer) think combine header trailers with this one.
James
jetemp:
Puntabrave I would have as much an idea that they are with us for the forseable future as you have that they would change, how many years does it take to get a change of law through the various parlients house of lords and consultation period etc. so i think i could think i could take a fair punt on it that there would be no change in the next 5 years but i might be wrong!!! You can only work to the legislation onfron ofyou not what ypu think may happen??As to gross weights id suggest that you go and talk to mike braithwait (An ex traffic copper who advices most police forcies on agricltural traffic law) and find out about the differences between trailed aplliances and trailers. Does my trailed cultivator legally need brakes,? (i do know the answer) think combine header trailers with this one.
James
As regards your combine header ‘trailers’ the answer lies in trailers. Braithwaite may have issued guidelines and give talks ect but a barrister would rip to pieces a combine header trailer with no brakes in the event of a crash and your favorite word ‘fatality’. As i posted before, read what i post not what you think i post, i have not said that change is about to happen i have said UK ag road laws need reviewing.
puntabrave a barrister can only rip apart the law, could you please clarify to me what an agricultural trailed appliance conveyor is in the letter of the law, it doent matter what a barrister says its what the law says that counts!!!
James