eagerbeaver:
What relevance does a six year old thread have?
its handy when you have a pair of six year old socks with holes in them… 
yourhavingalarf:
Mason Bros…The whole fleet has no dog clips.
Just a spring loaded clip that drops down when the pin has gone in.
Yep I remember a few years ago, driving MAN’s with an L shaped clip that dropped down in front of the handle and didn’t need a dog clip.
And I drove one of the Ex-Stobart Mercs they used for F1 a few month ago, it had lights on the dash board and on the fifth wheel to tell you if you hooked up properly.
Read the manufactures instructions and that stated it didn’t need a dog clip but it did have a place you could put one but the manufactures instructions said it was for a padlock to stop people messing with the fifth wheel when you weren’t near with the truck.
tarmactipper:
Sadly a driver lost his life here, only he, the driver involved New what he did or didn’t do wrong here and sadly paided the price, One thing I have never worked out, why is the Trailer park button mainly at the rear of a trailer, normally on the offside chassis rail, would it not make sense to reposition it onto the trailer neck above the fifth wheel on the offside, so when coupling, uncoupling it’s easy to spot, use and maybe the driver would then use it more, rather than think, F it I am not walking to the rear of the trailer to pull the button!!!
But surely a driver can apply the park brake when he walks to the rear of the trailer to remove his number plate. I’ve yet to find a trailer where the number plate holder is any where other than at the rear 
SouthEastCashew:
AndrewG:
Never had a truck without one either…Old premiums don’t have em
I had 4 premiums, an R reg an X reg an 02 plate and finally an 05 plate, all of them had the sprung L bar and a dog clip, The R, X and 05 plates were all brand new, so Renaults were sending them out from the factory with dog clips fitted
yourhavingalarf:
Mason Bros…The whole fleet has no dog clips.
Just a spring loaded clip that drops down when the pin has gone in.
The origin of the dog clip?
During a dock strike (I don’t know when or when) some drivers were crossing the picket line. Obviously the dockers didn’t like it and tried to talk the drivers out of it. If the chat was unsuccesful, one of the dockers would use a long handle with a hook on it and whilst the driver wasn’t looking or aware would pull the pin and walk off. A local haulier came up with the idea of the dog clip to stop this from happening. (I was told this story when I first started, I can only assume there’s some sort of truth in it)
The dog clip itself has no function in stopping the handle from coming out, that can only be done by pulling it.
.
I think that might have been your first dose of RDC myth
As for the handle only coming out by pulling. I’m not sure that’s strictly true, back in the days of steel sprung trailers and units there was a lot more vibration put through the fifth wheels, vibration might be understatement, especially when empty or lightly loaded, and coupled with a poorly adjusted set of jaws handles could move. IIRC handles used to have whole through them for the dog clip to go through to make sure it was held in place it was the final fail safe against a tired worn but legal set up
eddie snax:
yourhavingalarf:
Mason Bros…The whole fleet has no dog clips.
Just a spring loaded clip that drops down when the pin has gone in.
The origin of the dog clip?
During a dock strike (I don’t know when or when) some drivers were crossing the picket line. Obviously the dockers didn’t like it and tried to talk the drivers out of it. If the chat was unsuccesful, one of the dockers would use a long handle with a hook on it and whilst the driver wasn’t looking or aware would pull the pin and walk off. A local haulier came up with the idea of the dog clip to stop this from happening. (I was told this story when I first started, I can only assume there’s some sort of truth in it)
The dog clip itself has no function in stopping the handle from coming out, that can only be done by pulling it.
.
I think that might have been your first dose of RDC myth
As for the handle only coming out by pulling. I’m not sure that’s strictly true, back in the days of steel sprung trailers and units there was a lot more vibration put through the fifth wheels, vibration might be understatement, especially when empty or lightly loaded, and coupled with a poorly adjusted set of jaws handles could move. IIRC handles used to have whole through them for the dog clip to go through to make sure it was held in place it was the final fail safe against a tired worn but legal set up
There should be a small leaf spring pushing the handle down and also a spring at the end of the handle attached to an offset bracket that will force the handle into the captive position. Therefore vibration etc shouldn’t be able to force the handle up and out. However the leaf spring is often broken. The dog clip is a secondary locking device.
A badly adjusted or worn coupling can with a few shunts force the handle out. I have watched it happen after we had a driver lose a trailer. He hadn’t used the dog clip and there wasn’t an automated spring loaded latch. I watched as three back/forward shunts made the handle pop out and pin released from the jaws. Just shows what the clip can prevent. With the clip in although the shunting was the same, the coupling stayed locked.
I work in the yard to Immingham transport, sad to hear, and after speaking to a few people who work in the yard, it appears the gentleman in question was doing a split coupling, and the 3rd axle on the trailer was on a curb.
Most transport yards around here it’s not policy to apply the park brake. In fact there are only 3 I can think off where you do have too.
DSV
Immingham transport, (management came round on Monday? And pulled the park on every trailer)
Maritime, (95% of their trailers have a safe parking Park/shunt valve, where it pops the park button out when the red line is disconnected)
The rest of then it just seems to be normal practice to not pull the park button.
As for the quays. It is stated at some if them, that the park is not to be applied. It’s common unsafe practice that doesn’t go wrong often but when it does, it has deadly consequences.
double post opps 
if mods can remove, then please do so 
shep532:
eddie snax:
As for the handle only coming out by pulling. I’m not sure that’s strictly true, back in the days of steel sprung trailers and units there was a lot more vibration put through the fifth wheels, vibration might be understatement, especially when empty or lightly loaded, and coupled with a poorly adjusted set of jaws handles could move. IIRC handles used to have whole through them for the dog clip to go through to make sure it was held in place it was the final fail safe against a tired worn but legal set upThere should be a small leaf spring pushing the handle down and also a spring at the end of the handle attached to an offset bracket that will force the handle into the captive position. Therefore vibration etc shouldn’t be able to force the handle up and out. However the leaf spring is often broken. The dog clip is a secondary locking device.
A badly adjusted or worn coupling can with a few shunts force the handle out. I have watched it happen after we had a driver lose a trailer. He hadn’t used the dog clip and there wasn’t an automated spring loaded latch. I watched as three back/forward shunts made the handle pop out and pin released from the jaws. Just shows what the clip can prevent. With the clip in although the shunting was the same, the coupling stayed locked.
Thanks for confirming that, I did wonder whether that was something, that with time I had miss remembered
The trouble is that the safety measures of today, such as the sprung clip/bar that sit behind the handle on modern fifth wheels, weren’t there when the dog was first used to be the last line of security, and some forget this. Am I wrong to believe that although effectively redundant due to the sprung clip/bar, the dvsa still expect to see that dog clip in place
philgor:
As for the quays. It is stated at some if them, that the park is not to be applied. It’s common unsafe practice that doesn’t go wrong often but when it does, it has deadly consequences.
Its the same as many of the quay tugs/shunters never used to use the Yellow line or electrics suzy, this common practice had fatal consequences about 15 years ago at Purfleet, when a tug driver was killed when he couldn’t stop in time on the Tug brakes alone, and rammed into the back of a trailer being pulled by another tug whilst discharging a ferry. Now they all seem to use both sets of lines.
new trailers now,when red airline is uncoupled the trailer parking brake comes on,first thing i do after hooking up and doing a tug test is put the dog clip in
philgor:
I work in the yard to Immingham transport, sad to hear, and after speaking to a few people who work in the yard, it appears the gentleman in question was doing a split coupling, and the 3rd axle on the trailer was on a curb.Most transport yards around here it’s not policy to apply the park brake. In fact there are only 3 I can think off where you do have too.
DSV
Immingham transport, (management came round on Monday? And pulled the park on every trailer)
Maritime, (95% of their trailers have a safe parking Park/shunt valve, where it pops the park button out when the red line is disconnected)
The rest of then it just seems to be normal practice to not pull the park button.
As for the quays. It is stated at some if them, that the park is not to be applied. It’s common unsafe practice that doesn’t go wrong often but when it does, it has deadly consequences.
Would seem to make more sense and explain why there was no tug test or clip check.
eddie snax:
SouthEastCashew:
AndrewG:
Never had a truck without one either…Old premiums don’t have em
I had 4 premiums, an R reg an X reg an 02 plate and finally an 05 plate, all of them had the sprung L bar and a dog clip, The R, X and 05 plates were all brand new, so Renaults were sending them out from the factory with dog clips fitted
Yes I agree, the couplings I have used with a sprung L shaped lever have ALSO had a dog clip fitted, belt and braces eh?
eddie snax:
philgor:
As for the quays. It is stated at some if them, that the park is not to be applied. It’s common unsafe practice that doesn’t go wrong often but when it does, it has deadly consequences.Its the same as many of the quay tugs/shunters never used to use the Yellow line or electrics suzy, this common practice had fatal consequences about 15 years ago at Purfleet, when a tug driver was killed when he couldn’t stop in time on the Tug brakes alone, and rammed into the back of a trailer being pulled by another tug whilst discharging a ferry. Now they all seem to use both sets of lines.
It’s very rare that you see a tug moving a trailer without both airlines attached. Unless it’s only being moved a short distance.
The electrics aren’t even fitted. I can see their point on that, as most ferry trailers were using T38 rubberlite lights. There getting less common these days, thank God…
bestbooties:
eddie snax:
SouthEastCashew:
AndrewG:
Never had a truck without one either…Old premiums don’t have em
I had 4 premiums, an R reg an X reg an 02 plate and finally an 05 plate, all of them had the sprung L bar and a dog clip, The R, X and 05 plates were all brand new, so Renaults were sending them out from the factory with dog clips fitted
Yes I agree, the couplings I have used with a sprung L shaped lever have ALSO had a dog clip fitted, belt and braces eh?
I’ve had two premiums, a 2011 and a 2008/2009 the older did not have a dog clip fitted, first time I hooked it up I actually went and asked another driver wtf is this about?!
eagerbeaver:
You mentioned this on page one of this thread Cashew, where on earth do you/have you worked where the tractor units do not have dog clips?
we’ve got a couple of MANs without them
eddie snax:
shep532:
eddie snax:
As for the handle only coming out by pulling. I’m not sure that’s strictly true, back in the days of steel sprung trailers and units there was a lot more vibration put through the fifth wheels, vibration might be understatement, especially when empty or lightly loaded, and coupled with a poorly adjusted set of jaws handles could move. IIRC handles used to have whole through them for the dog clip to go through to make sure it was held in place it was the final fail safe against a tired worn but legal set upThere should be a small leaf spring pushing the handle down and also a spring at the end of the handle attached to an offset bracket that will force the handle into the captive position. Therefore vibration etc shouldn’t be able to force the handle up and out. However the leaf spring is often broken. The dog clip is a secondary locking device.
A badly adjusted or worn coupling can with a few shunts force the handle out. I have watched it happen after we had a driver lose a trailer. He hadn’t used the dog clip and there wasn’t an automated spring loaded latch. I watched as three back/forward shunts made the handle pop out and pin released from the jaws. Just shows what the clip can prevent. With the clip in although the shunting was the same, the coupling stayed locked.
Thanks for confirming that, I did wonder whether that was something, that with time I had miss remembered
The trouble is that the safety measures of today, such as the sprung clip/bar that sit behind the handle on modern fifth wheels, weren’t there when the dog was first used to be the last line of security, and some forget this. Am I wrong to believe that although effectively redundant due to the sprung clip/bar, the dvsa still expect to see that dog clip in place
If fitted - it MUST be used. (Dog clip). A spring operated latch is a secondary locking device and fits the requirement. But if there’s a dog clip as well it MUST be used.
philgor:
eddie snax:
philgor:
As for the quays. It is stated at some if them, that the park is not to be applied. It’s common unsafe practice that doesn’t go wrong often but when it does, it has deadly consequences.Its the same as many of the quay tugs/shunters never used to use the Yellow line or electrics suzy, this common practice had fatal consequences about 15 years ago at Purfleet, when a tug driver was killed when he couldn’t stop in time on the Tug brakes alone, and rammed into the back of a trailer being pulled by another tug whilst discharging a ferry. Now they all seem to use both sets of lines.
It’s very rare that you see a tug moving a trailer without both airlines attached. Unless it’s only being moved a short distance.
The electrics aren’t even fitted. I can see their point on that, as most ferry trailers were using T38 rubberlite lights. There getting less common these days, thank God…
They used to drag trailers on red lines only, all the time no matter how far, though I’ve been out of port traction since 2004, well apart from a brief spell for old times sake in 2010.
Sign at Stena Belfast says trailer brakes must be applied when dropping trailers
bald bloke:
tarmactipper:
Sadly a driver lost his life here, only he, the driver involved New what he did or didn’t do wrong here and sadly paided the price, One thing I have never worked out, why is the Trailer park button mainly at the rear of a trailer, normally on the offside chassis rail, would it not make sense to reposition it onto the trailer neck above the fifth wheel on the offside, so when coupling, uncoupling it’s easy to spot, use and maybe the driver would then use it more, rather than think, F it I am not walking to the rear of the trailer to pull the button!!!All our trailers have the brake button near the handle for the legs I’d say the minority have them at the rear and only ever seen one on the offside .
On skeletal trailers they often are.