elsa Lad:
…but remember its a blue chip high profile firm …
Oh no! One of those! The sort of large firm where you’ll be treated appallingly!
elsa Lad:
Someone I know has been there for about 18 months and loves it. It like any other job it might suit you or you think its a load of crap. Give it a go you nothing to lose, but remember its a blue chip high profile firm so it be full of H & S crap and you wont be allowed to think for yourself.
I’d give it a go, but what I’m hearing is unpaid breaks and driver facing cameras in the cab. The unpaid breaks I would argue about, but a camera inches away from my face for hours on end I flatly refuse. Everywhere I go on the Internet I’m reading of Hermes looking for drivers and I’m beginning to realize I got offered the bottom tier of HGV work. The ‘Fantastic money’ turned out to a bog standard £12ph, less breaks and camera micro-management wasn’t mentioned, unsurprisingly. I’ve worked for the blue-chips, but I have a bad feeling about this one. 
My name is Nodding, and I have a driver facing camera in my cab.
It’s not my choice, and I’d rather it wasnt there, but I’d also rather be very rich (I’m not), have a Ferrari ( I do not) and have a ■■■■ girlfriend (ok, that I have… 
).
Most people don’t understand how the camera works. It does not record everything you do ( the required storage would be prohibitive), and there is no live feed being watched by the transport office (they would be breaking every Data Protection rule in the book, and you could take an extended holiday if any footage ever gets out of the office). Nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to watch you, out of 100+ drivers, for hours on end, on the off change that you might do something interesting.
The system works on triggers, such as harsh breaking. It saves a set number of minutes before and after the incident, which is then reviewed by the person authorised to do so. They may or may not take whatever action they deem appropriate.
I know, because in the last year I’ve had two triggers,
One was a non event, the MAN camera throwing a hissy fit when I dabt the break a bit sharp, crossing the road between our two yards. No drama, no blocking, just a quick word in my ear about not wearing my seatbelt… 
(it my be only crossing the road, but it’s still on the public road).
The other one was in the roadworks on the M5between J2 and J1. Traffic ahead started bunching up, and to be fair, I should have breaked a bit earlier to make it a bit prettier. The office bod agreed that it was not a ‘panic brake’ (the camera in the MAN really was on a hair trigger), but we both agreed that I could have slowed a bit earlier.
I know i have set of the MAN camera more than that, but non of those were deemed to be necessary to call me into the office.
As for being filmed when your on break, or having a night out, just cover the thing up. They can not discipline you for covering the camera during your break/rest period.
You can harumph and posture all you want, but cameras will become the norm, just as tachos did. Remember the wails of indignation from the old boys, when the ‘spy in the cab’ was introduced?
Grandpa:
elsa Lad:
Someone I know has been there for about 18 months and loves it. It like any other job it might suit you or you think its a load of crap. Give it a go you nothing to lose, but remember its a blue chip high profile firm so it be full of H & S crap and you wont be allowed to think for yourself.I’d give it a go, but what I’m hearing is unpaid breaks and driver facing cameras in the cab. The unpaid breaks I would argue about, but a camera inches away from my face for hours on end I flatly refuse. Everywhere I go on the Internet I’m reading of Hermes looking for drivers and I’m beginning to realize I got offered the bottom tier of HGV work. The ‘Fantastic money’ turned out to a bog standard £12ph, less breaks and camera micro-management wasn’t mentioned, unsurprisingly. I’ve worked for the blue-chips, but I have a bad feeling about this one.
I’ve never worked for them myself, but I have to say I have the impression the place is a revolving door, and it’s the sort of place people avoid without quite putting their finger on the problem.
I suspect like with most big firms in this sector, it comes down to habitually poor attitudes in management.
It’s across the road from me, literally two minutes walk.
Yet I’ll still not look to work there.
the nodding donkey:
My name is Nodding, and I have a driver facing camera in my cab.It’s not my choice, and I’d rather it wasnt there, but I’d also rather be very rich (I’m not), have a Ferrari ( I do not) and have a ■■■■ girlfriend (ok, that I have…
Most people don’t understand how the camera works. It does not record everything you do ( the required storage would be prohibitive), and there is no live feed being watched by the transport office (they would be breaking every Data Protection rule in the book, and you could take an extended holiday if any footage ever gets out of the office). Nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to watch you, out of 100+ drivers, for hours on end, on the off change that you might do something interesting.The system works on triggers, such as harsh breaking. It saves a set number of minutes before and after the incident, which is then reviewed by the person authorised to do so. They may or may not take whatever action they deem appropriate.
I know, because in the last year I’ve had two triggers,
One was a non event, the MAN camera throwing a hissy fit when I dabt the break a bit sharp, crossing the road between our two yards. No drama, no blocking, just a quick word in my ear about not wearing my seatbelt…
The other one was in the roadworks on the M5between J2 and J1. Traffic ahead started bunching up, and to be fair, I should have breaked a bit earlier to make it a bit prettier. The office bod agreed that it was not a ‘panic brake’ (the camera in the MAN really was on a hair trigger), but we both agreed that I could have slowed a bit earlier.I know i have set of the MAN camera more than that, but non of those were deemed to be necessary to call me into the office.
As for being filmed when your on break, or having a night out, just cover the thing up. They can not discipline you for covering the camera during your break/rest period.
You can harumph and posture all you want, but cameras will become the norm, just as tachos did. Remember the wails of indignation from the old boys, when the ‘spy in the cab’ was introduced?
It may well be that cameras in the cab are the future. Who knows, in ten years’ time we might also have microchip in-plants under the skin – told all for our own safety of course and ‘everyone else is doing it.’ Fortunately, I still have a choice. In sudden breaking, or even an accident, there will be a front facing camera that will record why I did what I did. It’s not what these cameras record, the data protection act, or even who watches them and when, it’s the fact that they’re there at all and the driver has no control over them.
So you give an example of your braking suddenly. I’ve no doubt the front facing camera told the reason why. What was the point of recording you? I can see the reason for tacho’s and front facing cameras; I just can’t see the reason for one focusing on the driver. No wonder they don’t mention it when you apply for the job!
Do you think there might be a reason there are so many managers, but a driver shortage?
How many new drivers are going to come into a vocation where you’re micro managed and have a camera facing you for 10-12 hours a day? I’ve got two or three years left until I retire. I‘ll leave the ‘1984’ micro-managed scenario to the next generation. 
Grandpa:
the nodding donkey:
My name is Nodding, and I have a driver facing camera in my cab.It’s not my choice, and I’d rather it wasnt there, but I’d also rather be very rich (I’m not), have a Ferrari ( I do not) and have a ■■■■ girlfriend (ok, that I have…
Most people don’t understand how the camera works. It does not record everything you do ( the required storage would be prohibitive), and there is no live feed being watched by the transport office (they would be breaking every Data Protection rule in the book, and you could take an extended holiday if any footage ever gets out of the office). Nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to watch you, out of 100+ drivers, for hours on end, on the off change that you might do something interesting.The system works on triggers, such as harsh breaking. It saves a set number of minutes before and after the incident, which is then reviewed by the person authorised to do so. They may or may not take whatever action they deem appropriate.
I know, because in the last year I’ve had two triggers,
One was a non event, the MAN camera throwing a hissy fit when I dabt the break a bit sharp, crossing the road between our two yards. No drama, no blocking, just a quick word in my ear about not wearing my seatbelt…
The other one was in the roadworks on the M5between J2 and J1. Traffic ahead started bunching up, and to be fair, I should have breaked a bit earlier to make it a bit prettier. The office bod agreed that it was not a ‘panic brake’ (the camera in the MAN really was on a hair trigger), but we both agreed that I could have slowed a bit earlier.I know i have set of the MAN camera more than that, but non of those were deemed to be necessary to call me into the office.
As for being filmed when your on break, or having a night out, just cover the thing up. They can not discipline you for covering the camera during your break/rest period.
You can harumph and posture all you want, but cameras will become the norm, just as tachos did. Remember the wails of indignation from the old boys, when the ‘spy in the cab’ was introduced?
It may well be that cameras in the cab are the future. Who knows, in ten years’ time we might also have microchip in-plants under the skin – told all for our own safety of course and ‘everyone else is doing it.’ Fortunately, I still have a choice. In sudden breaking, or even an accident, there will be a front facing camera that will record why I did what I did. It’s not what these cameras record, the data protection act, or even who watches them and when, it’s the fact that they’re there at all and the driver has no control over them.
So you give an example of your braking suddenly. I’ve no doubt the front facing camera told the reason why. What was the point of recording you? I can see the reason for tacho’s and front facing cameras; I just can’t see the reason for one focusing on the driver. No wonder they don’t mention it when you apply for the job!
Do you think there might be a reason there are so many managers, but a driver shortage?
How many new drivers are going to come into a vocation where you’re micro managed and have a camera facing you for 10-12 hours a day? I’ve got two or three years left until I retire. I‘ll leave the ‘1984’ micro-managed scenario to the next generation.
To answer your question, the forward facing camera showed that traffic was flowing, and then suddenly started to bunch and slow. It showed also that i didn’t brake at the last minute, but could have anticipated a bit smoother.
The inward facing camera showed that i was not distracted by doing something like using my phone, watching a movie, or looking elsewhere for a prolonged time. It ‘got me off the hook’ if you will.
I don’t like it either, but short from packing in the job, there’s little to be done.
Passed the agency theory test and failed the Hermes one. 80% pass, I got 75%.
Just in case anyone is wondering, it’s a 4 hour induction course and then a 1 hour driving assessment. Five of us turned up. They ask for your three cards and N.I. number. The cards then disappear into another room, where they ‘allegedly’ check them on the government website? Two were immediately disqualified; one had been working the night before and so hadn’t had his minimum 9 hour rest and the other one it was discovered had 6 points on his licence.
In a way I’m glad I failed. Perhaps it’s because I’m older, but micro-management is not my thing. I’ll keep looking.
Grandpa:
Passed the agency theory test and failed the Hermes one. 80% pass, I got 75%.Just in case anyone is wondering, it’s a 4 hour induction course and then a 1 hour driving assessment. Five of us turned up. They ask for your three cards and N.I. number. The cards then disappear into another room, where they ‘allegedly’ check them on the government website? Two were immediately disqualified; one had been working the night before and so hadn’t had his minimum 9 hour rest and the other one it was discovered had 6 points on his licence.
In a way I’m glad I failed. Perhaps it’s because I’m older, but micro-management is not my thing. I’ll keep looking.
Mind sharing a few bits about the theory? I’ve only ever had to do 2 or 3 such tests which were for agencies and were quite simple but I’m going to be looking for a full time job now (not with Hermes , though 
) so I’m kind of interested about “real” theory tests
ETS:
Grandpa:
Passed the agency theory test and failed the Hermes one. 80% pass, I got 75%.Just in case anyone is wondering, it’s a 4 hour induction course and then a 1 hour driving assessment. Five of us turned up. They ask for your three cards and N.I. number. The cards then disappear into another room, where they ‘allegedly’ check them on the government website? Two were immediately disqualified; one had been working the night before and so hadn’t had his minimum 9 hour rest and the other one it was discovered had 6 points on his licence.
In a way I’m glad I failed. Perhaps it’s because I’m older, but micro-management is not my thing. I’ll keep looking.
Mind sharing a few bits about the theory? I’ve only ever had to do 2 or 3 such tests which were for agencies and were quite simple but I’m going to be looking for a full time job now (not with Hermes , though
They’re repeats in different forms, only longer than the agency ones and in a special purpose built classroom. The induction was going to last for four hours, so I imagine there would also be lectures and tests on fuel saving, driving, H&S … All the things you’d need to know to fit into the ‘gig economy.’
To answer your question, the forward facing camera showed that traffic was flowing, and then suddenly started to bunch and slow. It showed also that i didn’t brake at the last minute, but could have anticipated a bit smoother.
The inward facing camera showed that i was not distracted by doing something like using my phone, watching a movie, or looking elsewhere for a prolonged time. It ‘got me off the hook’ if you will.I don’t like it either, but short from packing in the job, there’s little to be done.
‘I don’t like it either, but short from packing in the job, there’s little to be done.’
That was my point, you do have a choice and it’s not as though there’s a shortage of jobs. The more drivers accept this, the more it will become the norm. Yet I can also see your point. As an aside here’s a tramping vacancy for a ‘hard working experienced driver.’ Don’t laugh at the rate, this advert is discontinued so someone took this job. Is this the future?
https://topwestmidlandscareers.co.uk/jobs/class-1-hgv-tramping-driver-rugby-warwickshire/97618597-2/
Let me tell you a little story.
I’ve been away for a decade and I can’t believe what I’ve come back to. I’ve been on CPC courses where I had to keep blinking rapidly to keep myself awake. That wasn’t the course providers fault, it was because someone told him to stretch out something that could have been done in one hour into a full day.
I’ve ticked thousands of boxes on sheaf’s of paper. I’ve met H&S managers, trainer managers, induction managers, but not yet a ‘I walk around and look for something wrong’ manager, although I don’t doubt there is one under some kind of professional sounding title.
I know all about H&S, CO2 emissions and company policies. Yet what I haven’t been asked is, ‘If I give you a unit and trailer, can you couple that up, drive it from A to B and reverse it onto a bay?’
It doesn’t matter if you’re a good or bad driver, it matters that you tick the right boxes under the scrutiny of a bloated middle management bureaucracy, many of whom will have a recent degree in the Fine Arts, a bog standard LinkedIn profile, but saw an advert for a Company Policy Manager at £30K and thought, ‘that sounds like a good gig.’
It’s a wonder anything gets done in minimum wage warehouses that look like African villages and no wonder foreign trucks and companies dominate UK roads. I’m looking for night trunking work, at a pinch with days out and I already know it’s going to be an uphill struggle.
Grandpa:
I’ve been away for a decade and I can’t believe what I’ve come back to. I’ve been on CPC courses where I had to keep blinking rapidly to keep myself awake. That wasn’t the course providers fault, it was because someone told him to stretch out something that could have been done in one hour into a full day.
I disagree, it is the providers fault. The best providers find something to talk about. There must be plenty to talk about in principle because we do plenty of it here.
There’s no regulation that says the course has to wilt the mind and be delivered by the most ineffectual lickspittles.
If drivers, or bosses who bankroll courses, are happy to accept low standards on such courses, then that is their problem.
Rjan:
Grandpa:
I’ve been away for a decade and I can’t believe what I’ve come back to. I’ve been on CPC courses where I had to keep blinking rapidly to keep myself awake. That wasn’t the course providers fault, it was because someone told him to stretch out something that could have been done in one hour into a full day.I disagree, it is the providers fault. The best providers find something to talk about. There must be plenty to talk about in principle because we do plenty of it here.
There’s no regulation that says the course has to wilt the mind and be delivered by the most ineffectual lickspittles.
If drivers, or bosses who bankroll courses, are happy to accept low standards on such courses, then that is their problem.
Think about it. One of the courses was ‘Vulnerable Road Users.’ Could you stand up in front of a class for seven hours and talk about that one subject? There is a regulation that says you can and will do. There’s no examination, you just have to sit there for seven hours because someone in Brussels says you have to. The most pointless waste of time ever devised.
Grandpa:
Rjan:
Grandpa:
I’ve been away for a decade and I can’t believe what I’ve come back to. I’ve been on CPC courses where I had to keep blinking rapidly to keep myself awake. That wasn’t the course providers fault, it was because someone told him to stretch out something that could have been done in one hour into a full day.I disagree, it is the providers fault. The best providers find something to talk about. There must be plenty to talk about in principle because we do plenty of it here.
There’s no regulation that says the course has to wilt the mind and be delivered by the most ineffectual lickspittles.
If drivers, or bosses who bankroll courses, are happy to accept low standards on such courses, then that is their problem.
Think about it. One of the courses was ‘Vulnerable Road Users.’ Could you stand up in front of a class for seven hours and talk about that one subject? There is a regulation that says you can and will do. There’s no examination, you just have to sit there for seven hours because someone in Brussels says you have to. The most pointless waste of time ever devised.
But they don’t have to drone on for 7 hours. There are all sorts of splits and modules available. And there is no requirement it all be in the classroom lecture-style.
There is no Brussels diktat which says exactly what the course must contain, what words must be spoken, or that it must be delivered by third-rate schoolteachers and failed ex-managers inside a bleak admin building.
A good course that I once sat consisted in part of an ex-driver discussing anecdotes about hazards and accidents that had shades of a stand-up routine.
Even some company inductions that I’ve been through, they have become ludicrous at times. For example, a trainer realising that he didn’t have the equipment to demonstrate a particular hazard (pertinently, I forget now exactly what the supposed hazard was…), so he asked us to imagine the equipment while he mimed it with arms waving and pointing at things that we couldn’t see on equipment that nobody was familiar with. 
But speaking of the same induction (which was a few years ago, I think before the CPC actually came in), the driver trainer seemed suited to that role and overall he managed to make a pretty engaging half-day induction touring the site (including the warehouse) and talking about various equipment and pitfalls, and then some time in the classroom to talk about drivers’ hours and whatnot, and I don’t see why that wouldn’t have made a decent half-day, company-specific CPC course.
Obviously, for old hands who’ve already done all sorts, muddled through, and made their mistakes, the CPC probably doesn’t add much now. But it’s designed mainly to put a stop to people learning by muddling and mistake-making, and even now there are still some old hands around who set a low standard.
Just think about what we discuss here. The finer points of drivers’ hours are a perennial. Bridge strikes are another perennial. I remember discussing a case of a tipper driver who raised his tipper into electrical lines. There was a new pass recently who wasn’t sure how to make manual entries. There are clearly people still going out on the roads in this country with gaps in their knowledge, working under unsafe systems, or overlooking hazards that aren’t at the top of their minds.
You mention vulnerable road users too. In the past two or three weeks, I’ve seen a cyclist actually knocked over (albeit at low speeds by a car driver), and a pedestrian almost knocked over by a 7.5t driver who ran a red light. In both cases there appeared to be some fault on the part of the vulnerable road users too, and they probably need their own courses, but the CPC is (or should be) our part of the educational jigsaw in this game.
Finally (and I’m guilty of this myself…) if you’re just trying to get the cheapest course to do as a bloc in one week, and which doesn’t relate to any particular site or line of work, then it’s bound to drag and bound to be generic and low-quality, but it isn’t EU rules which demand that the UK haulage industry be organised in this fashion.
Grandpa:
To answer your question, the forward facing camera showed that traffic was flowing, and then suddenly started to bunch and slow. It showed also that i didn’t brake at the last minute, but could have anticipated a bit smoother.
The inward facing camera showed that i was not distracted by doing something like using my phone, watching a movie, or looking elsewhere for a prolonged time. It ‘got me off the hook’ if you will.I don’t like it either, but short from packing in the job, there’s little to be done.
‘I don’t like it either, but short from packing in the job, there’s little to be done.’
That was my point, you do have a choice and it’s not as though there’s a shortage of jobs. The more drivers accept this, the more it will become the norm. Yet I can also see your point. As an aside here’s a tramping vacancy for a ‘hard working experienced driver.’ Don’t laugh at the rate, this advert is discontinued so someone took this job. Is this the future?
https://topwestmidlandscareers.co.uk/jobs/class-1-hgv-tramping-driver-rugby-warwickshire/97618597-2/
Let me tell you a little story.
I’ve been away for a decade and I can’t believe what I’ve come back to. I’ve been on CPC courses where I had to keep blinking rapidly to keep myself awake. That wasn’t the course providers fault, it was because someone told him to stretch out something that could have been done in one hour into a full day.
I’ve ticked thousands of boxes on sheaf’s of paper. I’ve met H&S managers, trainer managers, induction managers, but not yet a ‘I walk around and look for something wrong’ manager, although I don’t doubt there is one under some kind of professional sounding title.
I know all about H&S, CO2 emissions and company policies. Yet what I haven’t been asked is, ‘If I give you a unit and trailer, can you couple that up, drive it from A to B and reverse it onto a bay?’
It doesn’t matter if you’re a good or bad driver, it matters that you tick the right boxes under the scrutiny of a bloated middle management bureaucracy, many of whom will have a recent degree in the Fine Arts, a bog standard LinkedIn profile, but saw an advert for a Company Policy Manager at £30K and thought, ‘that sounds like a good gig.’
It’s a wonder anything gets done in minimum wage warehouses that look like African villages and no wonder foreign trucks and companies dominate UK roads. I’m looking for night trunking work, at a pinch with days out and I already know it’s going to be an uphill struggle.
Shame your not in my part of the world, Gramps, because I know three firms desperate for night jockeys on pallet hub work.
Ryjan, if I told you it was raining you’d argue and tell me it’s a chemical called H2O falling from the sky. Where do you think the EU WTD and the CPC came from – Pakistan?
Shame your not in my part of the world, Gramps, because I know three firms desperate for night jockeys on pallet hub work.
Thanks Socketset. It’s a big personal problem. Every agency I apply to is also asking for a work history and references. For the past ten years I’ve been an English and social Science teacher in S.E Asia and China. My resume is a teaching one and my last reference is from a senior teacher in Inner Mongolia. So when they say, ‘we’ll send your resume to transport managers or put it online, but we can’t continue your application until you send that information’, they don’t seem to realize how stupid it sounds. That’s why I’m trying to stay away from these application processes, but it’s a near impossibility.
I’ve no secrets, here’s my current resume. How many British Transport Managers are going to hire me with that?
Grandpa:
Ryjan, if I told you it was raining you’d argue and tell me it’s a chemical called H2O falling from the sky. Where do you think the EU WTD and the CPC came from – Pakistan?
The WTD is meant to stop employers taking the ■■■■ out of employees. The UK National Government is responsible for it’s (lack of) implementation.
The DCPC is meant to provide professional training for drivers. Many of us comment on the bad standards in the roads today, so surely it’s needed? The UK National Gov sets the standards here. Maybe higher standards than some, but many of us might think, not good enough. A bit better training with a test may make for better, safer, better paid drivers? No chance with the present Gov mind set.
The EU is far from perfect, but don’t blame them for domestic failings.
Grandpa:
Ryjan, if I told you it was raining you’d argue and tell me it’s a chemical called H2O falling from the sky. Where do you think the EU WTD and the CPC came from – Pakistan?
What came from the EU was the basic framework of having periodic training, not the fact that in Britain it is crap.
Your logic is as laughable as saying “I had some crap teachers when I went to school, therefore we should abolish schooling and penalise those idiots who ever thought schooling could be useful”.
It’s all the more surprising given that you have academic pretensions yourself.
I don’t have academic pretensions, it’s what I did and the resume was included to prove a point to someone else, not as troll bait for the usual anonymous keyboard warriors. I know what the CPC is and I also know that it’s virtually impossible for someone to make a seven hour single issue lesson plan, which isn’t then the fault of those presenting it, who have no teacher training either. We had one guy, Portuguese I think, who could just about say his name in English … No examination, no need even to learn, you turn up and the only requirement is to sit still for seven hours.
A perfectly designed waste of time in which everyone pays and everyone passes and perfect troll material?