repton:
I agree with what Coffeeholic said. They should put “merge in turn” signs at the point where the lane disappears and police it with a camera and fixed penalty notices, and then any percieved “problem” with people queue jumping goes away.
Paul
Fine in theory. What makes you think that the most likely people to jump the queue ( kids in hot hatches, reps, high-flying executives who think that only they should be in front) would actually take a blind bit of notice of it?
And did you really mean it when you suggested ANOTHER use for cameras?
I always use the following analogy when someone raises this point; “If you were in a queue in Tesco’s and someone barged right to the front, you wouldn’t like it would you? What’s the difference?”
Thats the point though, if everyone joined in turn there wouldn’t be free space for Mondeo Man to dive into because vehicles would be there already. Zip-merging does happen quite often, particularly letting people onto Motorways in slow traffic.
As for Tesco’s if another checkout was open would you still queue for another one? No, you would use all the available space, which is what people should do on the road.
repton:
I agree with what Coffeeholic said. They should put “merge in turn” signs at the point where the lane disappears and police it with a camera and fixed penalty notices, and then any percieved “problem” with people queue jumping goes away.
Paul
Fine in theory. What makes you think that the most likely people to jump the queue ( kids in hot hatches, reps, high-flying executives who think that only they should be in front) would actually take a blind bit of notice of it?
And did you really mean it when you suggested ANOTHER use for cameras?
I always use the following analogy when someone raises this point; “If you were in a queue in Tesco’s and someone barged right to the front, you wouldn’t like it would you? What’s the difference?”
Thats the point though, if everyone joined in turn there wouldn’t be free space for Mondeo Man to dive into because vehicles would be there already. Zip-merging does happen quite often, particularly letting people onto Motorways in slow traffic.
As for Tesco’s if another checkout was open would you still queue for another one? No, you would use all the available space, which is what people should do on the road. [/quote]
gnasty gnome:
I always use the following analogy when someone raises this point; “If you were in a queue in Tesco’s and someone barged right to the front, you wouldn’t like it would you? What’s the difference?”
Crap analogy. The checkout doesn’t have a merge point therefore you join at the back of the queue. The lane closure does have a merge point which is clearly defined at the point of closure.
on the flip side of this, last year i was behind a lorry heading off the M4 at jcn 49 as we were coming up to road works there were people zip merging infront of us 2 cars got through but the lorry driver then decided to force a vectra into the central res, i know zip merging is annoying but there was no need of that, someone could have ended up hurt
Coffeeholic:
Crap analogy. The checkout doesn’t have a merge point therefore you join at the back of the queue. The lane closure does have a merge point which is clearly defined at the point of closure.
The point I’m making is that assuming we’re all being sensible and zip-merging, there’s always some plonker willing to shove in as late as possible in order to get up the queue. As he inevitably cuts someone up and forces them to brake harder, so the "concertina effect " narrows the gaps and inhibits other drivers from merging in turn. Result; stationary traffic usually enhanced by a 3-car shunt or worse.
If you want a classic example of this try the M4 coming east into Cardiff. As you may know an extra lane has been added for the benefit of drivers heading into Cardiff. Little benefit has been gained because anyone with any experience of the road, and a healthy dose of self-preservational instinct, avoids the second lane because they know darned well that the bloke in the car in front is going to suddenly slam his anchors on as near as possible to the junction and force someone who has been leaving a reasonable gap, to let him in.
Okay that’s not likely to happen in Tesco’s, but the end result is still the same, a queue of patient people hacked off by one idiot’s bad manners.
It’s called queuejumping either way, and whatever your views on the analogy from a purely analytical point of view it gets the message across to car drivers so I think it serves its purpose.
gnasty gnome:
Fine in theory. What makes you think that the most likely people to jump the queue ( kids in hot hatches, reps, high-flying executives who think that only they should be in front) would actually take a blind bit of notice of it?
The bit that makes me think they would take notice of it is the bit where I said “fixed penalty notices”. Ignore it four times (two in the case of newly qualified drivers) and bye bye licence. If everyone merged in turn at the obstruction then there wouldn’t be an empty lane for people to barge to the front of anyway as the queues would be broadly the same length.
I mean what is the point in everyone merging a mile before the lane goes? What a waste of a mile of perfectly good road! Why not make full use of the road up to the obstruction? At least that way the queue will be as short as possible and therefore reduce the risk of it backing up past a previous junction blocking the exit for people who want to come off before the roadworks.
It’s a no-brainer in my mind, it’s quite obvious the way to minimise delays is to make full use of all the lanes available up until the obstruction and then have a camera (and fixed penalty) enforced merge in turn.
The other bonus of that is that there would be a lot fewer people sitting half an inch from the car in front to prevent people merging, and therefore no doubt a lot less shunt accidents in roadworks which should help keep everything moving too.
Great post repton.
That is exactly what is in the new highway code.
The ADUK, advanced driving site has discussed this very senario. In that discussion it was said that, for some weird social reason, Uk drivers like to queue and feel ‘anti-social’ if they use the clear outer lane.
Personally, I would like to see the American LAW of zip merging introduced and advertised in the media. I would not put any infringement laws in place to enforce it though - after all, the driver who does not use it will be penalising themselves, time wise.
DABenji:
my mistake didnt mean zip merging i ment the act of racing down the outside lane to push in front.
should have read the thread more carefully
You are quite right to point out the difference in the manner & types of driving in such situations - the ‘BLAST ALONG AND BULLY IN’ as opposed to the ‘gently cruise by and ask to merge in’.
If only people did “merge in turn”… in reality they dont do they. In a queue of traffic i`ll gladly let one car or wagon in front of me… i wont however let an endless stream try and force its way in front. 1 gets in, the rest can go fiddle.
