I have been working away tramping for the past 6 months and have clocked up a fair few hours…Now the end of my 26 period is fast approaching and I have worked out I only have 39 hours to work and still 2 weeks before the end of the 26 weeks…So by Wednesday night I am gonna be out of hours, I have informed management about it a month ago that I was getting close and sent them in my copy of the hours and they were going to check back on my tachos.
But like everything it has not been done and I work out my 39 hours will end this Wednesday so in my position what would you do now? My transport manager seems to think the company changed the 26 week date moved it forward 8 weeks but didn’t inform me but can they do that?
Surely I have still worked 26 weeks at an average of 60 hours? I’ve never worked near the hours before as was trunking so this WTD hasn’t really affected me till now.
Also If they give me the time off should they still be paying me for this time off? Just so I have some idea what to expect before I speak with the boss tomorrow!
rest, breaks, and poa’s are not counted towards the WTD.
also i’ve never heards vosa even mention it when i’ve been pulled.
quite some time ago i read an article from vosa stating it would be impossible for them to police it.
so my conclusion is for you to crack on and forget about it. you’ve told your employer your concerns, what more can you do?
also, you don’t get prosecuted for breaching the WTD, your employer does.
Drive2008:
I have still worked 26 weeks at an average of 60 hours?
If that is the case then you are too late to worry about it - the max average is 48 hours per week.
That average is made up of driving time & other work time only - breaks & POA do not count.
26 weeks @ 48 hours = max of 1,248 hours
This site has GURUs for this type of thing (I’m not one of them) and i’m sure one will pick up on this soon - I expect coffeeholic ot tachograph are likely to be the first to reply with a definitive answer.
I have taken off all POA’s and breaks…I have a computer programme that I also record start,break and POA time it states as Rog said the 48hours x 26 weeks = 1248 hours of working time and mine is saying I have worked 1209 hours there are 2 weeks left and so I have 39 hours left…
It would have been more but I have taken off VOR days, Bank Holidays as I believe these don’t count and 5 days holiday which I did count as 5 x 8 hours as they were not in a block so couldn’t put down as 48 hours…
All sounds very complicated when I read it back, I understand what your saying Rog but sure that the 60 hours can be calculated as an average over the 26 week reference period■■?
Still wonder what to say to the company though and should I just ignore it?
Drive2008:
Surely I have still worked 26 weeks at an average of 60 hours?
If you’re doing your sums based on an average of 60 hours then you’re already going to be well over as the average “working time” over those 26 weeks must not exceed 48 hours, as ROG said. 60 hours is the maximum in any specific week. Bear in mind though that as limeyphil said, your working time is only the sum of driving plus other work, breaks and POA do not count.
We are pulled up on tacho infingements (cant spell?) by the company all the time because of minutes under on breaks etc with threats of action if anything we do puts there ‘O’ license at risk…
I thought this would have been another example of that?
Does no one else use it then? Perhaps I am being concerned for nothing
drivers hours regs are one thing. the WTD is quite another.
even vosa can’t be arsed with the WTD. they and us have enough to do. how the hell are we supposed to know what hours we did six months ago?
we can’t. and it’s not practical to expect us to know.
it’s your employers problem anyway. so like i said, you’ve done your bit by telling them, so don’t worry about it.
Firstly the company can’t just change the start date of the reference period without informing you, in fact you need a workforce/collective agreement to use the 26 weeks reference period, and you would need an agreement or at very least you would need to be informed of any change to the reference period.
If you’ve worked an average of 60 hours per week you’ve almost certainly already failed to comply with the WTD regulations as 60 hours is the maximum allowed working time for any given week.
To calculate the 48 hour average week you should only count driving time and other work, breaks and POA are not calculated to find the average.
Drive2008:
Also If they give me the time off should they still be paying me for this time off? Just so I have some idea what to expect before I speak with the boss tomorrow!
As far as payment is concerned it will depend on your contract of employment, if you’re salaried then the likelihood is that you should be paid for the time you need to have off work to reduce your weekly average.
If you’re paid by the hour it’s unlikely that you will be paid unless there’s an agreement with the company that you will be paid but this is extremely unlikely.
Drive2008:
It would have been more but I have taken off VOR days, Bank Holidays as I believe these don’t count and 5 days holiday which I did count as 5 x 8 hours as they were not in a block so couldn’t put down as 48 hours…
Statutory holidays should be counted as either 48 hours for a full week (00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday) or 8 hours per day for any statutory holiday that doesn’t amount to a full week (00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday).
I can’t think what VOR days are but bank holidays are usually counted as part of the statutory holiday and so should be calculated at 8 hours per day.
The answer to your problem is really not too difficult, if you won’t get paid for any time off and you don’t want to lose the money then forget it and reduce your hours from now.
If you will get paid or you fancy an extra unpaid holiday, well now you’ve got an excuse haven’t you
Although no-one takes the WTD too seriously I would seriously suggest that you keep your hours down especially regards the maximum 60 hour week as this is easily checked on your tachograph charts/card and could potentially see you getting parked up by VOSA
Thank you Tachograph you have cleared up most points for me…
There is a collective agreement 2nd Feb to 2nd August…Company are saying it change to April but we have no notice of this, it’s not only myself this affects other drivers too. And no it has never been mentioned until now that it’s been changed.
The VOR I stated was Vehicle Off Road i,e Breakdowns and servicing where I was stood down for days without work. I never counted these hours the same as the Bank Holidays didn’t realise you counted them? Glad to see I was right with the 8 hours holidays as they were not took in a block only odd days.
I suppose the hours I have worked are under the 60 weeks looking at it, I have never exceed this rule the hours i’ve worked are 1209 with 39 left ( I am on holiday from the 25th July for the final week so have already deducted the 48 hours for that week) which leaves the 39 hours…
I did offer to do the reduced hours a month ago as I knew this was going to happen towards the end but it fell on deaf ears!! I am salaried so take it then I should be paid? Of course I would like the extra week holiday obviously and the last thing I wanna do is be breaking any rules hence why I always fill in my hours every day to keep on top of it. The company are really hot on all that but since we have a new Transport Manager he seems to think the hours are not important and it’s just me trying to get home early on a Friday!! LOL
So really I should stil approach him tomorrow then?
Before you go to see your TM check your contract of employment, as your salaried I would have thought that you would be entitled to payment for any time lost in order to reduce the average week to 48 hours unless there’s a clause in the contract that eliminates the need for payment.
Whichever method is in place, the employer and worker must know in advance how working time is being monitored and when the reference period starts and when it ends.
last time i’ve spoken with vosa officer about WTD and the average of 48 Hours , he just told me: if we’ll stop every lorry which got avg over 48 hrs then our motorways become almost empty. Keep Your night rest, Your weekly rest - working time (315hrs 213) do not exced driving time and the all will fine. We know about WTD problems to keep an average. 5days 9hours drive is 45 - only 3 left for tipping, loading , straping and fueling - thats crazy a bit
