Help please, what am I doing wrong?

Hi all.

I’ve just started with a new firm and for this week I am being babysat by one of their very experienced drivers (he has had this cab for 14 years, so obviously there is no drama when he is driving it)… No problem so far. The issue is I have been put into a 2000 (X plate) Scania, with a 3/3 splitter box. I came clean straight away and told him I had never driven one before and have not driven a splitter for a very long time. The biggest issue I am having is I can’t seem to find 4th. range change is fine and half steps working well when loaded and needed. I just can’t get into 4th either going up or down the bloody box. I know it’s in there but i’m getting sick of the tune i’m playing while trying to find it.

Today while fully loaded I was having to go from H3 straight into L5, if you catch my drift. worked for a fashion but really could use that 4th when loaded.

Any help will be greatfully recieved.

cheers
Smudge

Try slowing down the gear/range changing process. Get it wound up moderately in 3rd (high or low), flick switch for range change, SLOWLY into neutral letting the revs die away, gently offer it into 4th which is in the 1st gear position.

That’s a good starting point.

Good luck, Pete :laughing: :laughing:

Sounds like the syncro is worn on 4th, it does get some hammer as its the lowest high range gear before needing low range. I would imagine the existing driver has got used to it and may double de-clutch to engage it. Only thing you can do is change gear like a proper trucker, you will only get this gear if you match the engine speed and road/gearbox speed. If you try to rely on the synchromesh to engage 4th you won’t get it to engage easily, does it get slightly better when the gearbox warms up? On a 14 year old truck the box is bound to be worn, thats a lot of gear changes!

Try a bit of double de-clutching, its an art form if you do it well, the benefits of using this technique are useful, its faster to engage a lower gear and improves control but its not easy to learn for some, frankly i’m a real geek for proper old school driving and I can do it very well but some drivers are hopeless at it. Have a look for it on youtube, I know the modern gearboxes don’t advise this technique but thats only because they don’t think the average driver is capable of it.

Goes like this, 5th gear at 1200rpm, clutch in and shift to neutral, stab the accelerator to punch the revs upto 1500rpm and then depress the clutch and shift it quickly into 4th, no half measures, do it confidently, firm but not harsh. You won’t get it every time but it will start to feel good when you get the hang of it, sounds good too, especially if you engage the exhaust brake just after finding the gear! If the vehicle surges as you engage the gear you raised the engine speed to high, its normally around 200rpms between 4th and 5th, so if your at 1300rpms and need to go down one full gear take the revs to around 1500rpm to engage the gear, or in other words - learn your engine speeds for different gears at different road speeds. Like I say, you need to drive the truck properly now, those driving lessons don’t prepare you for the real world - ie worn out scannies!

The engine speed needed in different gears at different road speeds are often in the truck handbook, but you can learn it buy looking down at the tachometer (rev counter) just don’t take your eyes off the road for too long! Good luck. I love driving worn out gearboxes, my scania at keedwell had a worn out syncro on 5th (8 speed box), but I got it in most of the time by using this old school gear changing method.

Also if you want to know how to use worn out gearboxes, ask a coach driver, as most old coaches are pretty well worn. No point asking the boss to get the gearbox reconditioned as they won’t spend the money on it, last one I got repaired was £3000 on our Dennis coach, had to get it done because customers expect an easy to drive training vehicle.

Cheers for the replies.
I am on dock shunt work tomorrow, so doubt I will even need 4th. I will just have to try and play with it, not easy when I have a cab partner, hopefully it will get a bit slicker when i can play on my own. really ■■■■■■ me off today as fully freighted I needed the step gear. think I will have to grin and bare it till i’m let loose. learn the motor on the road so to speak. I was was trying too double de-clutch today but after the 3 or 4th attempt I gave up and went back into 3rd high then 5L. Everytime I grind 4th I feel like I am chopping one of his kids up. The really annoying thing is when he is driving I still hear the grind going into 4th, just not the song and dance I make of it.

play safe all have fun.
Smudge

Laurie is right; it’s almost certainly got worn syncro. If you can double declutch properly it should certainly make life easier.

I suggest you try my way as it’s a little easier. It may or may not work. If it doesn’t, have more practice double declutching. I describe it simply as treating neutral as a gear when changing down. In other words, come out of the gear you’re in, into neutral, drive it (the sharp stab that Laurie mentioned) and make sure you come off the clutch at the same time, then down on the clutch and engage the gear. When you’re learning how to do this, it can be best to give it all the revs on the “stab” then lean the gear stick against the gear. As the revs fall to the correct level, it will virtually pull the gear in on it’s own. With practice, you’ll just hit the correct revs more often than not.

Perhaps today is a good day to practice if you’re off road.

BTW, the technique is similar for an upward change - just no revs in neutral.

Hope this helps, Pete :laughing: :laughing:

Sounds like a problem I was having with the little Merc I was driving yesterday. Second gear is impossible to get to unless you are in first. First to second was a doable but it was hard work but third to second was impossible.

Defo a worn syncro if it won’t engage without a growl, going up the box is much easier for it to cope as the engine speed will match well if you change from 1st gear at 1500rpms to 2nd, because by the time you engage 2nd the engine speed will be 1000-1200rpms which is perfect for 2nd.

Thanks for the info. The babysitter thought I had cracked, I used the “say hello to neutral” but I didn’t realise I was saying it out loud. But hey it worked, going into 4th without a drama 9 out of 10 times now.

So thanks guys.
Cheers Smudge

Wow!! For the first time in ages, I read some really sensible advice. Well done Mr Tockwith and Mr Smythe.

and well done to you, Smudge, for persevering with it and mastering it. Double declutching is an long forgotten art these days.

The advice above is truly excellent. I do however have a different way of explaining what is happening and how to deal with it. Not a better way just different.

Inside the gearbox are a row of cogs alongside each other, a bit like the gears on a bicycle. Each cog is larger than the previous one with 1st gear being the smallest cog wheel. The smaller the cog, the faster it has to spin to keep up with the bigger ones.

When changing gear upwards the engine must be allowed to slow down to match the speed of the new larger, slower cog. When changing down the engine must be revved up to match the speed of the new smaller, faster cog. The slowing down or speeding up of the engine is done in neutral with your foot off the clutch.

Changing up gear = Neutral - lift clutch - let engine slow a bit - clutch and higher gear

Changing down gear = Nueutral - lift clutch - Rev engine - clutch and lower gear before revs drop.

This is definitely a technique better demonstrated than explained in writing.

Nice video of oldskool driving and double declutching:

youtube.com/watch?v=U0vmA4NYoTM

1957 AEC, sounds fantastic. :smiley:

4th wears on those boxes and baulk like hell, far worse when cold though, they usually free up a bit when the oil warms up.

Going up should be manageable if you catch it as the revs drop normally, going down will require a blip of the throttle to mesh the gears, not necessarily double de-clutching.

Don’t worry its not you, its not an easy box at the best of times let alone when its been round the clock a few times…