Juddian:
I’m not having a go at you Rog, and i do appreciate you coming back.
I do wonder why you experienced trainers don’t question things like the ‘eurosafe’ and ‘controlled stop’, if enough of you stood up and said its not good enough then someone would have to sit up and listen…or is this another EU directive, so just put up and shut up and say nothing.
I did not think you were having a go - I am all up for a good reasoned debate
In normal driving conditions the roadcraft way of doing things has been proven over time to be the safest way of driving in the greater majority of vehicles - it is not an EU thing
That is not to say that other methods are unsafe
It would be nice to have all drivers fully trained in all aspects of driving before being let loose on their own but the reality is that nobody would pay the extortionate amount in order to do that
Basic faults we all have at some time been guilty of when reversing;
Not using all the space available to line the outfit up initially (if there is 100ft to play with why try and use just 20ft)
Trying to jack knife in through a 90 degree turn when there is a chance to pull up in front of a bay and reverse straight in (90 degree turns when not needed just make it hard work, chews tyres and trailer overswing catches a lot out causing bumps to trailers/units)
Watching the wheels instead of the rear of the trailer (by the time you react to the wheels the trailer body has gone too far and another correction is needed, usually when only a foot or two from a loading bay).
Once watched a young lad in an empty Sainsbury depot getting all knotted up because of all the above, his main problem being not using the space, constant corrections meant he couldn’t keep up and he was heading for the wrong bay several times. I jumped on the steps and got him to pull right across the yard and start again, this time he was in a straighter line all the time and just used small steering movements, keeping the whole thing as straight as possible gave him the time he needed to work out what was happening.
imagine someone stood by the drivers side rear corner of the trailer as you look out the drivers window, this guy has to physically pull or push the trailer in the direction needed…put your left hand at the top of the wheel…if you pull on the steering it’s the same as if the guy were to “pull” the trailer, same applies to pushing the steering… aim for several small pulls and pushes rather than one or two big ones.
Two weeks after seeing the lad I bumped into him again at Sainsburys, Hackbridge, head out the window and telling himself push/pull as needed, one shunt and he was on the bay, not the hardest reverse going but not the easiest either thanks to the yard layout, this time he wasn’t sweating buckets and looked a whole lot more relaxed.
It’s a horrible situation to be in,BUT, you will get better at reversing. You just need time, practice and patience. No amount of words will make you better. Watch other drivers, look how they position themselfs to start with. Keep at it, you will get the hang of it.
Might be worth adding a couple of youtubes, first one is fairly straightforward but the driver made it a whole lot easier by setting up correctly and avoiding the 90 degree swing in one go trap
kr79:
90% of reversing is start in the right position but its practice. The manoeuvre you do on your test is more than likely nothing like you will face in real life.
Ain’t that the truth. When was the last time you did an S reverse into a bay
Asda store at Arnold Nottingham was my first reverse and that was an s bend reverse wrong way up a one way street!
ROG:
Now that opens up a new question … should there be a rule for the UK that a C+E pass must only be done in an artic?
Can of worms there ROG. As it stood, under the old system you would pass the Class 3 test then be qualified to pull a drawbar without even having trained on one; and in those days the vastly more difficult A-frame drawbars were the norm. At least with the new system you are trained on something which bends in the middle (or thereabouts) before you actually get to drive it legally.
From years on car transporters i would say that W & D (where truck and trailer are similar size) manoeuvering is trickier in confined spaces than artic by a country mile (unless artic with overcab peak, then all bets are off ), so many times reversing round corners or between tightly parked vehicles from a sharp angle you lose sight of the rear half of the trailer and obviously beyond depending on scenery, other vehicles and building layout, something that is very difficult to achieve due to the length of towing vehicle in a normal artic.
So if anything i would suggest a W&D manoeuvering pass would be worth points than a normal artic in the real world.
Each type varies considerably depending on wheelbase’s and axle configurations.
Just to throw another spanner in the works, my regular tank has an automatic lifting front axle, sods law dictates that axle will helpfully raise itself when i’m half way through a tight reverse manoeuvre…
Juddian:
From years on car transporters i would say that W & D (where truck and trailer are similar size) manoeuvering is trickier in confined spaces than artic by a country mile (unless artic with overcab peak, then all bets are off ), so many times reversing round corners or between tightly parked vehicles from a sharp angle you lose sight of the rear half of the trailer and obviously beyond depending on scenery, other vehicles and building layout, something that is very difficult to achieve due to the length of towing vehicle in a normal artic.
So if anything i would suggest a W&D manoeuvering pass would be worth points than a normal artic in the real world.
Each type varies considerably depending on wheelbase’s and axle configurations.
Just to throw another spanner in the works, my regular tank has an automatic lifting front axle, sods law dictates that axle will helpfully raise itself when i’m half way through a tight reverse manoeuvre…
I swap from artic to W & D pretty often, wheelbase on the drag outfit I have now is a shorty unit, I have known a lot of guys who did years on transporter artics had major problems swapping onto drags, usually not lining themselves up and misjudging the larger turning circle of the unit of a rigid compared to a tractor unit seemed to be the major downfall.
I think a good idea for newbies during training would be to ignore trainers that want you to reverse by numbers ie turn wheel this way, when you can see cone in this mirror etc. and get to grips with the actual mechanics of reversing.
Everyone needs a start but, I also think if you know reversing is a real issue (I think some have a good general idea and need more practice, which isn’t an issue, but others are just completely nowhere with it post-test) you do need to do something to get on top of it otherwise I think if you manage to wing it through a driving assessment reversing on a bay you’re just not going to do yourself any favours if you get sent out on a run that can have a considerably trickier reverse than that - which is almost any run.
Own Account Driver:
I think a good idea for newbies during training would be to ignore trainers that want you to reverse by numbers ie turn wheel this way, when you can see cone in this mirror etc. and get to grips with the actual mechanics of reversing.
Good trainers will give the trainee the underpinning knowledge as to what happens and why, guide them through a few reverses but after the first one they will ask questions and try and get the trainee to use the knowledge to make a decision for themselves
After those first few reverses they will let the trainee practise without intervening unless absolutely necessary
If possible the trainer will take them to an industrial estate where a few empty units are avaiable for them to have a play with or if they have a really tricky reverse to do to park up at the end of the session then that will often suffice
If all the trainee has been given is instruction on how to pass the test reverse especially if using bits of the set up to do it by then they will struggle post test
You’ll get there, it takes atleast a month to be able to roughly get it where you need it. Without someone giving you a chance the only thing i can suggest is to go back to the training school and have a couple more lessons. I had someone with me for my first week on artics and he taught me so much, i would have really struggle without him, so my point is I and many other people havnt just gone straight from test to first solo run without any “post-test training”.
The trouble is its time and money, trying it learn everything in a short 4 days plus test. I did 2 days at 8 hours each and we didn’t have time for reversing but lucky for me a mate is a tm and letting do some shunting. It’s slow going and would of cost a fortune.
RottenRich:
The trouble is its time and money, trying it learn everything in a short 4 days plus test. I did 2 days at 8 hours each and we didn’t have time for reversing but lucky for me a mate is a tm and letting do some shunting. It’s slow going and would of cost a fortune.
I used to do 2 days artic training with test on day 3 and we had loads of time for reversing with the airfield being about an hour away from base … how come you did not have time?
RottenRich:
The trouble is its time and money, trying it learn everything in a short 4 days plus test. I did 2 days at 8 hours each and we didn’t have time for reversing but lucky for me a mate is a tm and letting do some shunting. It’s slow going and would of cost a fortune.
I used to do 2 days artic training with test on day 3 and we had loads of time for reversing with the airfield being about an hour away from base … how come you did not have time?
We had time to do the test type reversing but the rest or the time was used driving the test routes. maybe if I’d asked to do other reversing we might of fitted it in but to be honest at the all I wanted was a pass and non test reversing wouldn’t of helped. So sorry I was talking crap.
RottenRich:
The trouble is its time and money, trying it learn everything in a short 4 days plus test. I did 2 days at 8 hours each and we didn’t have time for reversing but lucky for me a mate is a tm and letting do some shunting. It’s slow going and would of cost a fortune.
I used to do 2 days artic training with test on day 3 and we had loads of time for reversing with the airfield being about an hour away from base … how come you did not have time?
We had time to do the test type reversing but the rest or the time was used driving the test routes. maybe if I’d asked to do other reversing we might of fitted it in but to be honest at the all I wanted was a pass and non test reversing wouldn’t of helped. So sorry I was talking crap.
That is interesting and fits in with what many are saying about the lack of reversing skill post test
obsessivecompulsive2:
practice is what it takes,you’ll get there.
That is the issue - how do they practice without the use of an artic ?
My part of the post there wasn’t made very clear,what i should have put was,once you get yourself into a job driving artics,then practice…i.e,reversing onto bays or into premises. I was bloody useless at reversing artics for my first month or so after i passed the test,then it just suddenly “clicked”
Another tip, if not already mentioned ( I read quite a few replies just in case), when reversing and you find yourself making some corrections try to keep your angles relatively shallow, if you find yourself needing to correct more than a quarter ( as in 90 degrees being a full screw in and a quarter being a more reasonable 20 odd degrees ) then it’s probably best to pull right out and start again (as as already mentioned getting the correct positioning is 90% of the reverse in the first place, that also comes with practice and experience) , otherwise you will chasing the trailer in like a right rookie swaying backwards and forwards from full lock to lock trying to catch up, you only only make aggressive corrections when you get some experience under your belt, aggressive corrections when your still learning will only serve to frustrate you more and make it feel like a scruffy reverse even if you do manage to hit the bay eventually
Just another small tip, if there is bars on a bay be careful, really careful, you can do some real damage with those to axles and tyres and rear bumpers on trailers etc, some are generous, some are tight, always aim to keep it tighter to the bar you can see on the drivers side, that way you know you definitely have enough room on your nearside.
