Hi everyone, I was wondering if anyone knows the answer to this. At work we have certain runs that are classed as nights out and others which are day runs. we are paid 11 hrs for day runs and 12 for night runs. anything after that is banked hrs. this was agreed on a long time ago and there is a list of runs for which count as nights out. What I want to know is if the company I know work ( we were taken over by muppet outfit ) for gives me so much work to do that it takes me say 14hrs to do a day run would I be within my rights to either bring back what I cant do or say park up and say stuff it, after all I am not actually getting paid for it ! forget wanting a pound of flesh, these tossers want 2 ! 
they keep on tagging extra work on as the day goes by aswell so that instead od doing your predicted 10/11 you end up doing more like 15 and to be honest what with the wtd and all I shoud not and do not want to work those sorts of hrs anyway.
I gave up working days for that very reason. I suspect they can insist you work all the legal hours under the sun but for me 9 hours at home is a no no…
we have a similiar situation. we are paid 55 hours a week and we can go over that sometimes. since we dont get paid anything, i will only work 55 hours. anything over that will be brought back with a big FU. if they cant manage properly, thats not my problem. if they want me to lift a finger, its gonna cost them. that is the whole concept of employment
You might find the agreement on hours you have to work is based on an average over 17 weeks or 26 weeks or whatever,so keep track of the hours you work.If it’s done on a weekly basis then you are working for FREE
It would depend on how you were taken over. If you have kept your original contract then you could refuse to do the extra work. You may end up in court with it though, as any change in your normal working practise is a breach of contract. By that I mean If you had always started work at 9am for the last 2 years and then they wanted you to start at 6am then you could say it was a change in your contract, even if a start time had never been put into your contract. It all boils down to what has been accepted practice.
I would say that your old runs were accepted practice and as such they are trying to change your contract. But I am no lawyer, just passing on what I know having had to look into it when I was a TM and my bosses wanted me to change working hours etc. It turned out we could not do it without the drivers consent regardless of what it stated in their contracts of employment.
smcaul:
It would depend on how you were taken over. If you have kept your original contract then you could refuse to do the extra work. You may end up in court with it though, as any change in your normal working practise is a breach of contract. By that I mean If you had always started work at 9am for the last 2 years and then they wanted you to start at 6am then you could say it was a change in your contract, even if a start time had never been put into your contract. It all boils down to what has been accepted practice.I would say that your old runs were accepted practice and as such they are trying to change your contract. But I am no lawyer, just passing on what I know having had to look into it when I was a TM and my bosses wanted me to change working hours etc. It turned out we could not do it without the drivers consent regardless of what it stated in their contracts of employment.
what you wrote is basically correct, however the firm could change the start times, and therfore your contract by giving you 10 weeks notice.
David5l:
what you wrote is basically correct, however the firm could change the start times, and therfore your contract by giving you 10 weeks notice.
They may give you 10 weeks notice of intended change, but this gives you a period of time to make your case for refusing, and as if you were’nt made redundant when the previous employer sold out but ntook your contract employment with you, as transfered employment rights, which is done to save your previous employer paying you redundancy, then you would be well within your rights to refuse the changes to your pay and conditions that this new crew are trying to slide in through the back door. Even without your previous pay and conditions being in writing, you can still prove custom and practice to back up your case. If your new employers want to change your conditions then they will have to make you an offer to buy your old terms from you, this would have been effectivly what was happening had your previous employer payed you redundancy when he sold out to the new bunch, but it dont sound like he did so your pay and conditions are as they were until you agree to any change 
eddie snax:
David5l:
what you wrote is basically correct, however the firm could change the start times, and therfore your contract by giving you 10 weeks notice.They may give you 10 weeks notice of intended change, but this gives you a period of time to make your case for refusing, and as if you were’nt made redundant when the previous employer sold out but ntook your contract employment with you, as transfered employment rights, which is done to save your previous employer paying you redundancy, then you would be well within your rights to refuse the changes to your pay and conditions that this new crew are trying to slide in through the back door. Even without your previous pay and conditions being in writing, you can still prove custom and practice to back up your case. If your new employers want to change your conditions then they will have to make you an offer to buy your old terms from you, this would have been effectivly what was happening had your previous employer payed you redundancy when he sold out to the new bunch, but it dont sound like he did so your pay and conditions are as they were until you agree to any change
yep but TUPE does not protect you if the employer can prove the change is necessary under E T O, economic, technical or organisational , so basically they can stuff you as long as the notice to change is given.
TUPE is at the moment a massive grey area until the current reviews come into force, then it might protect us. until then the only way is to stand together and fall together brothers.
gives me so much work to do that it takes me say 14hrs to do a day run
how ever.
If you work bedween Midnight and 04.00Am is it through the Law Nightwork and for you not allowed to work more then 10Hour in a shift of 15Hour.
If the Company will extend it to 12Hour work must she sign an Agreement with you.
Have a similar Situation as i get paid 48Hour for Night trunk,and Warehousemanager would like to keep my Busy till trailer is emty bedween 09.00 and 10.00 witout that i would get paid overtime.
In that ase come i back,park in Front of warehouse as ordered,give Doc’s in Offie,take my bag and go.
The one day the warehousemanager accept that leave i with friendly Face,the other Day he doesn’t will accept it leave i too,but with angry Face.
Helps not really,but,as i don’t have the Job till now is klear where i stay if i get them 
Tell them to stick it and move on…
David5l:
yep but TUPE does not protect you if the employer can prove the change is necessary under E T O, economic, technical or organisational , so basically they can stuff you as long as the notice to change is given.TUPE is at the moment a massive grey area until the current reviews come into force, then it might protect us. until then the only way is to stand together and fall together brothers.
Do we have any rights, dont look like it. You can allways move on but that might be what they want.
Stand together we should have done already, Labour government , what a pity ful joke 
I might be reading this post from the wrong end, but I would worry about the Revenue in this case 
A few years ago we did a job from Hull to Slough, it took us 8.5 hours driving time but if we rounded it we got a night out.
The Revenue were very interested in the extra money we received. and Im sure with the wtd there will be even more people interested!
Thanks for all the responses, hoping to leave soon anyway but for now I am still having to work there 
Now that all the serious answers have been posted can I suggest what I think the real reason is for you having to do all the extra hours ?
I think it’s because you haven’t been keeping your cab tidy enough …
BOOM BOOM 
this poses a real problem.
if you are only paid for 12 hours and yet you work 14 or 15 then then the hours you work over 12 are voluntary.
i think you should perhaps write to the company and advise them that you are no longer prepared to work any voluntary hours.
if you are paid a night out but get back to the depot then this is in fact illegal and you may find that the taxman comes chasing you for income tax on any night out money paid to you when you have not had an official night out.
despite what the contract agrrement says you cannot be forced to work unpaid hours, i assume the pay structure is based on an hourly pay system and the 12 hours is fixed by using the calculations from the hourly rate.
any contract will state a reasonable amount of overtime is to be expected, you may want to check the wording of your contract of employment, you may actually find that it contains several statements that contradict each other, exploit those contradictions.