Jenson Button:
The Red Arrows have just done a fly past !
Feeling thick or what… I still dont get it
As I’ve said so many times before, the rules are just too complicated. It’s almost as if they have been framed in such a way as to make them incomprehensible to mere mortals. Even the average VOSA officer doesn’t understand them, and once, when I was stopped by two coppers in a Police car who asked to see my tacho chart and who obviously couldn’t make head nor tail of it, they thanked me with genuine gratitude for explaining to them the basics of tachograph rules.
Jenson Button:
The Red Arrows have just done a fly past !
Feeling thick or what… I still dont get it
As I’ve said so many times before, the rules are just too complicated. It’s almost as if they have been framed in such a way as to make them incomprehensible to mere mortals. Even the average VOSA officer doesn’t understand them, and once, when I was stopped by two coppers in a Police car who asked to see my tacho chart and who obviously couldn’t make head nor tail of it, they thanked me with genuine gratitude for explaining to them the basics of tachograph rules.
The trouble nowadays is that everyone thinks of “days” and they just dont exist anymore in transport!!!
Jenson Button:
so if i start work at 0330 hours monday to run down to Boune… back load out and be back in the Mids and tipped for 1400 hours - i can then start work at 11pm off the back of a 9 hour reducer.
And if i started work at 0600 hours on locals to coventry and worked till 1700 hours - and took a reduced break I can be back working at 0200 hours? so a day on locals and then still get to Bourne the next day to meet the 7.30 time slot ?
Yes and yes.
If you stop thinking about the days of the week and start thinking about 24 hour periods, it should be easier to get your head round.
You have only three reduced daily rest periods between weekly rest periods, ie 9 hours, so you couldn’t carry on like that all week.
If it’s any help, when I was running fresh produce back from southern Spain, I used to save up my reduced breaks for the return journey.
I needed to cover the maximum distance in the minimum time and did something like this
This way, it was possible to cram 3 1/2 “working days” into 2 1/2 calendar days
and still survive an inspection by the Guardia
Some of my more local colleagues were convinced that I was running “bent”
Bloody hell - my head is going to go bang! Wish I had paid a bit more attention in maths…
Sorry I am a bit of an anorack so will keep asking about this until I fully understand the rules…
So day 1 after my weekly rest (eg Sunday) i coud drive for 3 hours, take 9 hours off, drive for 3 hours and take 9 hours off - and still be int he same calander day, but have used up 2 of my 6 ?
Jenson Button:
So day 1 after my weekly rest (eg Sunday) i coud drive for 3 hours, take 9 hours off, drive for 3 hours and take 9 hours off - and still be int he same calander day, but have used up 2 of my 6 ?
Yes, you could legally do that but forget “using up two of your six”, that doesn’t exist any more.
You would have used up one of your six consecutive 24 hour periods.
Harry Monk:
These recent posts just go to show that tachograph rules are way too complicated for the common man. Even £400 an hour barristers will spend days arguing about their differing interpretations of the law, in week-long court cases.
It took me over 25 years to fully understand tachograph rules and it can’t be right to expect truck drivers to understand rules that even barristers and judges, with all of their education don’t understand.
Harry im with you 100% ive been out of the HGV game for 17 yrs ( joined the Army) start new Job in 3 weeks on Boxes.
what the hell is POA when i was driving on the old cards it was either driving, rest, otherwork,■■?.
does poa count as rest ■■? or other work?? blar blar blar.
Is there a Book or thread that says it in layman terms Cheers Pete
But I would have used up 2 of my 3 reducers and only driven for 6 hours… so would still be ble to work on another 5 24 hour periods, be able to drive for another 50 hours , but only have 1 more reduced rest.
Harry Monk:
These recent posts just go to show that tachograph rules are way too complicated for the common man. Even £400 an hour barristers will spend days arguing about their differing interpretations of the law, in week-long court cases.
It took me over 25 years to fully understand tachograph rules and it can’t be right to expect truck drivers to understand rules that even barristers and judges, with all of their education don’t understand.
Harry im with you 100% ive been out of the HGV game for 17 yrs ( joined the Army) start new Job in 3 weeks on Boxes.
what the hell is POA when i was driving on the old cards it was either driving, rest, otherwork,■■?.
does poa count as rest ■■? or other work?? blar blar blar.
Is there a Book or thread that says it in layman terms Cheers Pete
POA = pointless option. Basically, it is ‘planned or scheduled waiting time’, ie if you arrive somewhere and someone is being tipped before you, they tell you they’re going to be about an hour, then you get an hours POA - in theory.
Personally, if I’m not driving, and not working, then I’m on break, the only POA I’ve recorded is when I’ve been booked somewhere at say 7am, and I get there but the truck won’t be back till 7.30am, then I book that as POA, other than that, I don’t use it.
Harry Monk:
And yes, if he started at midnight, stopped at 5.a.m. and then started again, then at the end of that new shift he would have completed two of the six cards available to him before needing to take a weekly rest period.
So it took you 25 years to understand the tacho regs but you still talk about him using ‘2 of the 6 cards available to him’. No wonder new drivers get confused. Don’t talk about six cards, its confusing. Its six days, as many ‘cards’ as you can legally fit in.
Harry Monk:
And yes, if he started at midnight, stopped at 5.a.m. and then started again, then at the end of that new shift he would have completed two of the six cards available to him before needing to take a weekly rest period.
So it took you 25 years to understand the tacho regs but you still talk about him using ‘2 of the 6 cards available to him’. No wonder new drivers get confused. Don’t talk about six cards, its confusing. Its six days, as many ‘cards’ as you can legally fit in.
Sorry, I’ll try to explain it in slightly more simple terms for you next time, if I can think of any.
Harry Monk:
And yes, if he started at midnight, stopped at 5.a.m. and then started again, then at the end of that new shift he would have completed two of the six cards available to him before needing to take a weekly rest period.
So it took you 25 years to understand the tacho regs but you still talk about him using ‘2 of the 6 cards available to him’. No wonder new drivers get confused. Don’t talk about six cards, its confusing. Its six days, as many ‘cards’ as you can legally fit in.
Sorry, I’ll try to explain it in slightly more simple terms for you next time, if I can think of any.
Make it as simple as you like it’ll still be wrong
Harry Monk:
And yes, if he started at midnight, stopped at 5.a.m. and then started again, then at the end of that new shift he would have completed two of the six cards available to him before needing to take a weekly rest period.
So it took you 25 years to understand the tacho regs but you still talk about him using ‘2 of the 6 cards available to him’. No wonder new drivers get confused. Don’t talk about six cards, its confusing. Its six days, as many ‘cards’ as you can legally fit in.
No its not, its six 24 hr periods which may cover seven days
Harry Monk:
And yes, if he started at midnight, stopped at 5.a.m. and then started again, then at the end of that new shift he would have completed two of the six cards available to him before needing to take a weekly rest period.
So it took you 25 years to understand the tacho regs but you still talk about him using ‘2 of the 6 cards available to him’. No wonder new drivers get confused. Don’t talk about six cards, its confusing. Its six days, as many ‘cards’ as you can legally fit in.
No its not, its six 24 hr periods which may cover seven days
Harry Monk:
And yes, if he started at midnight, stopped at 5.a.m. and then started again, then at the end of that new shift he would have completed two of the six cards available to him before needing to take a weekly rest period.
So it took you 25 years to understand the tacho regs but you still talk about him using ‘2 of the 6 cards available to him’. No wonder new drivers get confused. Don’t talk about six cards, its confusing. Its six days, as many ‘cards’ as you can legally fit in.
No its not, its six 24 hr periods which may cover seven days
Right and a 24 hour period is called what exactly? Ah yes, a day.
Jenson Button:
so if i start work at 0330 hours monday to run down to Boune… back load out and be back in the Mids and tipped for 1400 hours - i can then start work at 11pm off the back of a 9 hour reducer.
And if i started work at 0600 hours on locals to coventry and worked till 1700 hours - and took a reduced break I can be back working at 0200 hours? so a day on locals and then still get to Bourne the next day to meet the 7.30 time slot ?
Yes and yes.
If you stop thinking about the days of the week and start thinking about 24 hour periods, it should be easier to get your head round.
You have only three reduced daily rest periods between weekly rest periods, ie 9 hours, so you couldn’t carry on like that all week.
If it’s any help, when I was running fresh produce back from southern Spain, I used to save up my reduced breaks for the return journey.
I needed to cover the maximum distance in the minimum time and did something like this
This way, it was possible to cram 3 1/2 “working days” into 2 1/2 calendar days
and still survive an inspection by the Guardia
Some of my more local colleagues were convinced that I was running “bent”
Regards,
Nick.
But nearside nick isnt that the exact reason why you picked up fines for tacho offences on numerous charts on your little jollies to Spain, or doesnt that count? ex traffic cop too lol
Harry Monk:
And yes, if he started at midnight, stopped at 5.a.m. and then started again, then at the end of that new shift he would have completed two of the six cards available to him before needing to take a weekly rest period.
So it took you 25 years to understand the tacho regs but you still talk about him using ‘2 of the 6 cards available to him’. No wonder new drivers get confused. Don’t talk about six cards, its confusing. Its six days, as many ‘cards’ as you can legally fit in.
No its not, its six 24 hr periods which may cover seven days
Right and a 24 hour period is called what exactly? Ah yes, a day.
The problem for some of the old ■■■■■ is trying to forget what was legal in the past. Since being more active on the forums I have tried to avoid driver speak and use the correct terms.
days and weeks are enough to confuse them , do they mean a fixed week or a period of 7 days. Do they call 00.00 to 23.59 a day or any period of 24 hours?
The scenario that Jenson used was a regular one for me, we used to get some very strange loading times in the tyre factories. I have often done an early start, loaded and run a few hours, parking up at 1300 or 1400. Slept for 9 hours and set off again before midnight to be on the customers doorstep at 8am. I have used the same methods with the weather, if it is red hot and sending me to sleep anyway, it is easier to go to bed and drive through the night. I don’t have a problem sleeping in a hot cab or in daylight
Tanker driving and fridge driving are generally more time critical than general, it is one of the reasons I prefer the rules as they are, they are very flexible for both the driver and planner. The problem is made worse when the planner has one idea and the driver has another but they both have the same goals.
Please bare with me… I really need to understand this.
The driver starts at midnight and works till 5am - then takes a 9 hour break, he then starts at 1400 hours and works till 2am - this has used up 1 period of 24 hours - but he has had a 9 hour break between 5am and 1400 hours. 1 of his reducers for the week. He is now in his 2nd period of 24 hours - what does he need to do now - or did his 2nd period of 24 hours start when he commenced work for the 2nd time at 1400 hours?
I really am sorry about this but I am struggling to get my head round it
Jenson Button:
or did his 2nd period of 24 hours start when he commenced work for the 2nd time at 1400 hours?
This. Every time you restart work after a daily rest period you start a new “24 period” as far as driving time, daily rests, etc. are concerned. In your example one of the permitted 3 reduced daily rests has been used up as there was not 11h of continuous rest in the first 24h period starting at midnight.
Harry im with you 100% ive been out of the HGV game for 17 yrs ( joined the Army) start new Job in 3 weeks on Boxes.
