Have I (zb) up? ( Driving hours/rest days)

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

Hi all,

I’ve had a few weeks of strange shift patterns recently and think I may have managed to break the rules but am not sure!

non-stat leave tues 27th May till Fri 30th May

Sat 31st May Rest day

Sun 1st June 0535-1335 shift

Mon 2nd June 2328-0658

Tues 3rd June 2358-0658

Wed 4th 2358-0658

Thurs 5th 2358-0658

Fri 6th 2358-0658

Sat 7th June 2035-0725

Sun Rest Day

Is this 7 days in a row or can I use the 33hrs 53mins between 1335 on Sunday and 2328 on Monday as a reduced daily rest period of 9hrs and a reduced weekly rest of 24 hrs■■?

Cheers for any help

Andy

perhaps messed up would have been a better choice rather than trying to dodge the word censor mm

2

postie:
Hi all,

I’ve had a few weeks of strange shift patterns recently and think I may have managed to break the rules but am not sure!

non-stat leave tues 27th May till Fri 30th May

Sat 31st May Rest day
THE WEEK STARTS FROM SCRATCH AT THIS POINT (0000HRS)
Sun 1st June 0535-1335 shift - SHIFT 1 OF 7 ?
33 FULL HOURS BREAK
Mon 2nd June 2328-0658 - OR SHIFT 1 OF 6 ?
17 FULL HOURS BREAK
Tues 3rd June 2358-0658
17 FULL HOURS BREAK
Wed 4th 2358-0658
17 FULL HOURS BREAK
Thurs 5th 2358-0658
17 FULL HOURS BREAK
Fri 6th 2358-0658
13 FULL HOURS BREAK
Sat 7th June 2035-0725
THE WEEK FINISHES AT 2400HRS DURING THIS SHIFT SO IS THE SHIFT BIT AFTER 2400 NOW SHIFT 1 OF THE FOLLOWING WEEK ?
Sun Rest Day

Is this 7 days in a row or can I use the 33hrs 53mins between 1335 on Sunday and 2328 on Monday as a reduced daily rest period of 9hrs and a reduced weekly rest of 24 hrs■■?

I’ve got this far but I would be guessing if I go any further
I’m FAIRLY sure I got the BLUE bits correct but I’ll bet an expert will shoot me if wrong

3

postie:
Is this 7 days in a row or can I use the 33hrs 53mins between 1335 on Sunday and 2328 on Monday as a reduced daily rest period of 9hrs and a reduced weekly rest of 24 hrs■■?

Providing you had not taken a reduced weekly rest the previous week then Sunday 13:35 until Monday 23:28 is a reduced weekly rest

You can have as many weekly rests as you like during a week, it’s the fixed week totals you have to watch out for, i.e no more than 6 consecutive shifts, 90 hrs total driving for 2 fixed weeks or 45 hrs driving for 1 fixed week, no more than 3 reductions or 2 10hr extensions in a fixed week.

Because you were on none statutory Leave 27th - 30th May then that fixed week was ok and the leave could be defined as 45 hrs weekly rest as in a Full weekly rest.

You did not exceed the 6 shifts so I would say your okay with nothing to worry about.

4

Thanks Rog and Davey Driver for your helpful replies. Would I have been ok to work on Monday 9th June?

Cheers lads

5

postie:
Is this 7 days in a row or can I use the 33hrs 53mins between 1335 on Sunday and 2328 on Monday as a reduced daily rest period of 9hrs and a reduced weekly rest of 24 hrs■■?

The daily rest is extended into a reduced weekly rest of 33 hours, so you will need to payback 12 hours compensation en-block by the end of the third week following the week in which the weekly rest was reduced, in this case 24:00 Sunday 6th July.

6

postie:
Thanks Rog and Davey Driver for your helpful replies. Would I have been ok to work on Monday 9th June?

Cheers lads

can I use the 33hrs 53mins between 1335 on Sunday and 2328 on Monday as a reduced daily rest period of 9hrs and a reduced weekly rest of 24 hrs■■?
Sat 7th June 2035-0725

IF the 33 hour rest was a reduced weekly rest then would you need a full 45 before resuming ■■? - if yes, finishing at 0725 sunday morning, then you cannot restart til 0425hrs Tuesday morning by my calculation.

I again, await an expert to confirm or shoot me…

SEE - I’m going to get shot again :open_mouth: :unamused: :wink: :laughing:
I forgot that the reduced weekly rest time does need to be paid back until the end of the third week - DOH :blush:

Can you do 2 reduced weekly rests in a row providing the first gets paid back by the end of week 3 and the second gets paid back by the end of week 4 :question: :question:

7

What ROG said is correct :smiley:

I miscalculated the times in my previous post, so edited them out :wink:

8

tachograph:
What ROG said is correct :smiley:

I miscalculated the times in my previous post, so edited them out :wink:

OOOOOOOOOOH :exclamation: - I’ve been waiting to use this :unamused: :wink: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

![](http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa152/ROGIAM/tachogunsight.jpg)
9

For some reason I was thinking that postie finished at 07:25 on the Saturday, but of course it was Sunday morning at 07:25 the he began the weekly rest for this week :blush:

So the 45 hour full weekly rest wouldn’t end until 04:25 on Tuesday.

On the other hand if you didn’t read my other post, then of course there was no ■■■■-up :stuck_out_tongue:

10

ROG:

tachograph:
What ROG said is correct :smiley:

I miscalculated the times in my previous post, so edited them out :wink:

OOOOOOOOOOH :exclamation: - I’ve been waiting to use this :unamused: :wink: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

11

Davey Driver:
[…no more than 3 reductions or 2 10hr extensions in a fixed week.

Not quite correct. It is true you can only have 2x10 hour driving days in the fixed week but the 3 x reduced daily rest periods is between weekly rest periods. This means that if your weekly rest falls midweek it is quite possible to legally have 6 reduced daily rest periods in a single fixed week.

12

ROG:
IF the 33 hour rest was a reduced weekly rest then would you need a full 45 before resuming ■■? - if yes, finishing at 0725 sunday morning, then you cannot restart til 0425hrs Tuesday morning by my calculation.

I again, await an expert to confirm or shoot me…

BANG!!! He doesn’t need a regular weekly rest period at this point. He can legally take another reduced weekly rest, see below.

tachograph:
For some reason I was thinking that postie finished at 07:25 on the Saturday, but of course it was Sunday morning at 07:25 the he began the weekly rest for this week :blush:

So the 45 hour full weekly rest wouldn’t end until 04:25 on Tuesday.

He doesn’t require a regular rest period at this point so is free to resume work at 07:25 Monday, after a reduced weekly rest period, if he wishes. He will ahve to begin a regular weekly rest period of at least 45 hours before midnight on Sunday 15th.

He had a full weekly rest period in week ending June 1st

He then had a reduced weekly rest which can be counted in either w/e June 1st or June 8th

He begins another weekly rest period on June 8th and this can be counted in either w/e June 8th or 15th and this can be another reduced weekly rest because he can start a regular weekly rest before the end of w/e 15th June.

If he does take a reduced weekly rest which commenced on June 8th that will give:

W/E June 1st Regular Weekly Rest

W/E June 8th Reduced Weekly Rest

W/E June 15th Regular Weekly Rest

Nice and legal as in any two consecutive weeks he is showing at least one regular and one reduced weekly rest periods. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

13

ROG:
Can you do 2 reduced weekly rests in a row providing the first gets paid back by the end of week 3 and the second gets paid back by the end of week 4 :question: :question:

no you cant, you can only have one reduced rest as long as the weekly rest prior to the one you are reducing was a full weekly rest. you must have a full weekly rest in between reduced weekly rests

14

ROG:

postie:
Sat 7th June 2035-0725
THE WEEK FINISHES AT 2400HRS DURING THIS SHIFT SO IS THE SHIFT BIT AFTER 2400 NOW SHIFT 1 OF THE FOLLOWING WEEK ?

No. Shift 1 of your work pattern is the first shift after you resume work following a weekly rest period. The fixed week has no bearing on this, there is no limit to the number of shifts you can do in the fixed week and you can legally do more than 6 provided weekly rest periods are taken correctly

ROG:
Can you do 2 reduced weekly rests in a row providing the first gets paid back by the end of week 3 and the second gets paid back by the end of week 4 :question: :question:

If you have 2 reduced weekly rest periods in a fixed week only one needs compensating for, the other would just be there to stop the driver doing more than 6x24 hour periods without a weekly rest and requires no compensation.

NOTE. Weekly rest reductions do not require compensating for by the end of week 3. The compensation must be paid back by the end of the third week following the reduction so a reduction in week 1 requires compensation by latest the end of week 4, not week 3.

15

Giblsa:

ROG:
Can you do 2 reduced weekly rests in a row providing the first gets paid back by the end of week 3 and the second gets paid back by the end of week 4 :question: :question:

no you cant, you can only have one reduced rest as long as the weekly rest prior to the one you are reducing was a full weekly rest. you must have a full weekly rest in between reduced weekly rests

Incorrect. You can take more than one reduced weekly rest periods without a regular weekly rest period in between, provided no two consecutive fixed weeks contain only reduced weekly rests.

16

Coffeeholic:
He had a full weekly rest period in week ending June 1st

He then had a reduced weekly rest which can be counted in either w/e June 1st or June 8th

He begins another weekly rest period on June 8th and this can be counted in either w/e June 8th or 15th and this can be another reduced weekly rest because he can start a regular weekly rest before the end of w/e 15th June.

If he does take a reduced weekly rest which commenced on June 8th that will give:

W/E June 1st Regular Weekly Rest

W/E June 8th Reduced Weekly Rest

W/E June 15th Regular Weekly Rest

Nice and legal as in any two consecutive weeks he is showing at least one regular and one reduced weekly rest periods. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

Well thought out :smiley:
I overlooked the idea of counting the reduced weekly rest for the same week as the 45 hour weekly rest :blush: :smiley:

17

Looks very complicated.
Hide your cards.
Tell vosa it’s your first day when you get pulled.
Easy :wink: :laughing:

18

Is a shift that starts before midnight sunday and finishes after midnight sunday counted as the final shift number in the week before and the first shift of the week after :question: :question: :confused: :confused:

19

ROG:
Is a shift that starts before midnight sunday and finishes after midnight sunday counted as the final shift number in the week before and the first shift of the week after :question: :question: :confused: :confused:

Neither. As I said above the fixed week has no bearing on number of shifts, first shift or last shift a driver can do in a fixed week. You can do 6x24 hour periods between weekly rest periods and those weekly rest periods are the important thing in calculating which is this first of those 6 and which is the last not the Monday to Sunday fixed week… Your first shift is the one when you commence work after a weekly rest period and when that falls in the fixed week, or even if it begins in one fixed week and ends in another is totally irrelevant. There is no limit, other than that imposed by the number of hours in a week and the weekly and daily rest requirements, as to the number of shifts you can do in a fixed week. You can, given the right circumstances with weekly rest periods, do more than 6 in a fixed week therefore whether a shift is, or is not, the first in a fixed week does not matter.

20

tachograph:

Coffeeholic:
He had a full weekly rest period in week ending June 1st

He then had a reduced weekly rest which can be counted in either w/e June 1st or June 8th

He begins another weekly rest period on June 8th and this can be counted in either w/e June 8th or 15th and this can be another reduced weekly rest because he can start a regular weekly rest before the end of w/e 15th June.

If he does take a reduced weekly rest which commenced on June 8th that will give:

W/E June 1st Regular Weekly Rest

W/E June 8th Reduced Weekly Rest

W/E June 15th Regular Weekly Rest

Nice and legal as in any two consecutive weeks he is showing at least one regular and one reduced weekly rest periods. :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

Well thought out :smiley:
I overlooked the idea of counting the reduced weekly rest for the same week as the 45 hour weekly rest :blush: :smiley:

Which week you count those two reduced rest periods in is irrelevant, as long as at least one of them is counted in w/e 8th June, in fact both might as well be counted in that week. The important bit is he begins a regular weekly rest before midnight on the 15th, he doesn’t need to count the second reduced in w/e the 15th to be legal.