All of this tech is designed to make someone a lot of money.
commonrail:
All of this tech is designed to make someone a lot of money.
Psychiatrists?
Sorting out bunches of screwed up lorry drivers?
Or sorting out bosses who say “What’s the problem? The salesman said you’d love it”!
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
mrginge:
Anyone that want manual trucks has never driven an ishift.
erm…I’ve been driving 22 years and driven most of the autos out there including a Volvo and a Renault (same box I believe) I agree they are very good and by far the best I’ve driven but I still asked for a manual for my new truck. I just think as an experienced driver (some may argue) I am better than electronics. My new motor is coming with comfortshift which to my mind means the best of both worlds, use the clutch peddle to set off the use the button once up and running. Basically I’m fully in control instead of trying to second guess how long its going to take for the clutch ecu to realise I want to get going on the tight busy roundabout or having to over ride the wrong gear selected only to find the ecu realised at the same time and changed as well so we shifted 2 gears instead of the 1 we both wanted meaning yet another change grrrrrrr.
Then I get onto the fact I deliver only to building sites which get extremely muddy and do get stuck now and then. Tried rocking an auto out of a situation? Doesn’t work does it! Manual no problem.
I realise I’m very much in the minority on this one but I don’t see why those of us that like manuals had to be forced into autos with no say in it. We had to fight the sales guy all the way to get a manual but luckily my boss agreed with my choice and wouldn’t even listen to his attempts at “just tell me again why you want a manual”. He just cut him short by saying thats what the bloke thats going to be driving it everyday wants and I think he’s right so get it done. 
nomiS36:
Then I get onto the fact I deliver only to building sites which get extremely muddy and do get stuck now and then. Tried rocking an auto out of a situation? Doesn’t work does it! Manual no problem.
Yep, my stuff is mainly landfill, sometimes you can rock out, sometimes you can’t.
On that note, my DAF CF is a double drive (6x4 for those that prefer that language), outside of the DAF ‘coaching tips’ that I turn off immediately the key goes in the ignition, I don’t have to suffer the lane departure (loud beep through the radio when it ‘sees’ a shadow) or ACC (slams the brakes on when it ‘sees’ a shadow)(had the misfortune of driving a single drive/ 6x2 whilst mine was VOR several months back). I do actually enjoy what I’m doing at the moment, but tomorrow is another day!
came along the A419 before the blunsdon turn off,getting quite a good speed up the hill checked ahead and saw a slow moving wagon,about 200 yards,checked my mirror,indicated,pulled out and the auto brake system kicked in on my DAF,nothing in front of me but the sensor picked up the vehicle I was overtaking I decelerated quite rapidly,this is after I turned the system off,i had to hit the accelerator quickly to build my speed up again before I lost momentum,personally I think these safety features are dangerous
When I had a 16 plate actros I had a few of these slamming the brakes on incidents, usually when catching a vehicle up that was slowing before entering a slip road. I knew I could ‘keep er lit’ as the vehicle would be gone by the time I got to it but the system thought differently and hit the brakes. ■■■■ me up every time! 
Franglais:
commonrail:
All of this tech is designed to make someone a lot of money.Psychiatrists?
Sorting out bunches of screwed up lorry drivers?
Or sorting out bosses who say “What’s the problem? The salesman said you’d love it”!Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
Main dealers…my friend…main dealers
I’ve been watching this thread while I’ve been away on a trip to Southern Spain. The truck I been driving is a 2004 Scania 4 series, manual gearbox and no sensors, even got an analogue tachograph. A couple of weeks ago I did a trip to Italy in a newish Actros, equipped with all the latest acronyms.
Did I enjoy the driving, yes on both cases, great roads and scenery, driving the Mercedes is far more relaxing and the Scania does take far more driving, especially coming down some of the hills as it only has an exhaust brake and not a proper retarder like the Mercedes, but that’s down to the original spec as the retarder on this Actros is an optional extra.
But if I had a choice of which one I’d take on a regular basis it would be the Mercedes, not because there is anything particularly wrong with the Scania, it’s a good truck and well looked after, but having driven the 2 back to back the progress is obvious in the driving and the use of cab space.
As for false alarms on automatic braking system, well I did get a couple when I first drove it, but soon learnt to anticipate them or react to the warning before the truck.
If you’ve found yourself behind a slow vehicle when the ACC is on, well I don’t think you’ve been concentrating on what’s going on around you. If you’re catching another vehicle with the ACC on, you can simply override by putting you foot on the accelerator, it even tells you the other vehicles speed so you can decide whether it’s worth overtaking from some distance back.
Personally I think its down to mastering the vehicle, whether it’s the latest bit of kit or something from a previous era, each will have their good and bad points and the more you drive them the more you should understand them and therefore get the best out of them and that should give the sense of pride in the job.
Not so much the fun… more the challenge. Talk to the old railwaymen from the days of steam, and they all say the same thing; diesels and electrics are much easier but there’s nothing like the satisfaction of getting the best out of a machine through your own effort and skill, and in some ways lorry driving’s gone the same way.
I don’t think I’d want to go back to a manual box, for example, though I’m glad that I know how to use one; and I don’t mean a four over four synchro range change but something like a David Brown 6-speed with a two-speed Eaton axle. All the gadgets and gizmos on modern vehicles are designed to make our lives easier, and by and large they achieve that even though one may question the value of some of them; but the job’s lost that certain element of satisfaction in the process.
Same with load security; there’s nothing to my eyes that looks quite as “right” as a nicely roped and sheeted flatbed, but fast forward to that howling gale that kicks off even on the calmest day when you’re trying to fold your sheet up and it’s a different story.
Sidevalve:
Not so much the fun… more the challenge. Talk to the old railwaymen from the days of steam, and they all say the same thing; diesels and electrics are much easier but there’s nothing like the satisfaction of getting the best out of a machine through your own effort and skill, and in some ways lorry driving’s gone the same way.I don’t think I’d want to go back to a manual box, for example, though I’m glad that I know how to use one; and I don’t mean a four over four synchro range change but something like a David Brown 6-speed with a two-speed Eaton axle. All the gadgets and gizmos on modern vehicles are designed to make our lives easier, and by and large they achieve that even though one may question the value of some of them; but the job’s lost that certain element of satisfaction in the process.
Same with load security; there’s nothing to my eyes that looks quite as “right” as a nicely roped and sheeted flatbed, but fast forward to that howling gale that kicks off even on the calmest day when you’re trying to fold your sheet up and it’s a different story.
I’m amazed at how many people don’t like the DB boxes. I loved 'em. As for folding sheets in a 2mph gale… 
I used to think a few house brick’s would come in handy.
muckles:
I’ve been watching this thread while I’ve been away on a trip to Southern Spain. The truck I been driving is a 2004 Scania 4 series, manual gearbox and no sensors, even got an analogue tachograph. A couple of weeks ago I did a trip to Italy in a newish Actros, equipped with all the latest acronyms.
Did I enjoy the driving, yes on both cases, great roads and scenery, driving the Mercedes is far more relaxing and the Scania does take far more driving, especially coming down some of the hills as it only has an exhaust brake and not a proper retarder like the Mercedes, but that’s down to the original spec as the retarder on this Actros is an optional extra.
But if I had a choice of which one I’d take on a regular basis it would be the Mercedes, not because there is anything particularly wrong with the Scania, it’s a good truck and well looked after, but having driven the 2 back to back the progress is obvious in the driving and the use of cab space.
As for false alarms on automatic braking system, well I did get a couple when I first drove it, but soon learnt to anticipate them or react to the warning before the truck.
If you’ve found yourself behind a slow vehicle when the ACC is on, well I don’t think you’ve been concentrating on what’s going on around you. If you’re catching another vehicle with the ACC on, you can simply override by putting you foot on the accelerator, it even tells you the other vehicles speed so you can decide whether it’s worth overtaking from some distance back.
Personally I think its down to mastering the vehicle, whether it’s the latest bit of kit or something from a previous era, each will have their good and bad points and the more you drive them the more you should understand them and therefore get the best out of them and that should give the sense of pride in the job.
Finally someone talking sense! I’ve driven most modern lorries at this stage plus I’ve driven oldies like 143’s and F12’s recently and always think these lads who go on about how much theyd prefer to have one of the oldies clearly hadn’t driven one recently. Do a full shift in a 20+ year old 143 and you’ll feel every minute of it come the end of the day! Your last paragraph is spot on, all trucks need time to master to get their full potential of of them. Approach each truck with and open mind and take time to learn how to drive it just like you would the oldies and you’ll enjoy the experience much more
You should try driving a Volvo, all these features work exactly as they should in my experience. My truck has ACC and its worth its weight in gold.
From a fuel economy perspective, acc is useless though. Your speed is as stable as that of the vehicle in front, more effective to set the cruise a tad lower than their average speed. I don’t really feel comfortable with the lorry accelerating/decelerating rapidly without my input.
This based on both Volvo and Scania acc.
switchlogic:
muckles:
I’ve been watching this thread while I’ve been away on a trip to Southern Spain. The truck I been driving is a 2004 Scania 4 series, manual gearbox and no sensors, even got an analogue tachograph. A couple of weeks ago I did a trip to Italy in a newish Actros, equipped with all the latest acronyms.
Did I enjoy the driving, yes on both cases, great roads and scenery, driving the Mercedes is far more relaxing and the Scania does take far more driving, especially coming down some of the hills as it only has an exhaust brake and not a proper retarder like the Mercedes, but that’s down to the original spec as the retarder on this Actros is an optional extra.
But if I had a choice of which one I’d take on a regular basis it would be the Mercedes, not because there is anything particularly wrong with the Scania, it’s a good truck and well looked after, but having driven the 2 back to back the progress is obvious in the driving and the use of cab space.
As for false alarms on automatic braking system, well I did get a couple when I first drove it, but soon learnt to anticipate them or react to the warning before the truck.
If you’ve found yourself behind a slow vehicle when the ACC is on, well I don’t think you’ve been concentrating on what’s going on around you. If you’re catching another vehicle with the ACC on, you can simply override by putting you foot on the accelerator, it even tells you the other vehicles speed so you can decide whether it’s worth overtaking from some distance back.
Personally I think its down to mastering the vehicle, whether it’s the latest bit of kit or something from a previous era, each will have their good and bad points and the more you drive them the more you should understand them and therefore get the best out of them and that should give the sense of pride in the job.Finally someone talking sense! I’ve driven most modern lorries at this stage plus I’ve driven oldies like 143’s and F12’s recently and always think these lads who go on about how much theyd prefer to have one of the oldies clearly hadn’t driven one recently. Do a full shift in a 20+ year old 143 and you’ll feel every minute of it come the end of the day! Your last paragraph is spot on, all trucks need time to master to get their full potential of of them. Approach each truck with and open mind and take time to learn how to drive it just like you would the oldies and you’ll enjoy the experience much more
Muckles, youre saying there is a fault with the EABS, but you have learnt to overcome it. I say that fault shouldnt be there, it should have been sorted before it was specced for Eu6 trucks.
Yes, Luke, youre right that new trucks arent just “jump in and drive” to get the best from them. So, theyre just like an older truck that needs to be learnt. But comparing a 20 year old truck with no electronics to a new truck, isnt really a fair comparison. We should compare a new non-electronic truck (quiet, good HEVAC, good engine,etc) with a new full electronic truck.
And from your previous post, yes, Id like to give an i-shift a good run out. If its as good as many say great, but so far my experience has been of average to crap auto boxes.
Franglais:
But comparing a 20 year old truck with no electronics to a new truck, isn`t really a fair comparison.
Not my comparison though, is done by others with rose tinted soecs
Franglais:
switchlogic:
muckles:
I’ve been watching this thread while I’ve been away on a trip to Southern Spain. The truck I been driving is a 2004 Scania 4 series, manual gearbox and no sensors, even got an analogue tachograph. A couple of weeks ago I did a trip to Italy in a newish Actros, equipped with all the latest acronyms.
Did I enjoy the driving, yes on both cases, great roads and scenery, driving the Mercedes is far more relaxing and the Scania does take far more driving, especially coming down some of the hills as it only has an exhaust brake and not a proper retarder like the Mercedes, but that’s down to the original spec as the retarder on this Actros is an optional extra.
But if I had a choice of which one I’d take on a regular basis it would be the Mercedes, not because there is anything particularly wrong with the Scania, it’s a good truck and well looked after, but having driven the 2 back to back the progress is obvious in the driving and the use of cab space.
As for false alarms on automatic braking system, well I did get a couple when I first drove it, but soon learnt to anticipate them or react to the warning before the truck.
If you’ve found yourself behind a slow vehicle when the ACC is on, well I don’t think you’ve been concentrating on what’s going on around you. If you’re catching another vehicle with the ACC on, you can simply override by putting you foot on the accelerator, it even tells you the other vehicles speed so you can decide whether it’s worth overtaking from some distance back.
Personally I think its down to mastering the vehicle, whether it’s the latest bit of kit or something from a previous era, each will have their good and bad points and the more you drive them the more you should understand them and therefore get the best out of them and that should give the sense of pride in the job.Finally someone talking sense! I’ve driven most modern lorries at this stage plus I’ve driven oldies like 143’s and F12’s recently and always think these lads who go on about how much theyd prefer to have one of the oldies clearly hadn’t driven one recently. Do a full shift in a 20+ year old 143 and you’ll feel every minute of it come the end of the day! Your last paragraph is spot on, all trucks need time to master to get their full potential of of them. Approach each truck with and open mind and take time to learn how to drive it just like you would the oldies and you’ll enjoy the experience much more
Muckles, you
re saying there is a fault with the EABS, but you have learnt to overcome it. I say that fault shouldnt be there, it should have been sorted before it was specced for Eu6 trucks.
I don’t think it’s a fault with EABS, but limitations of the system, the limitations of these electronic systems that will keep the likes of us in the cab for the foreseeable future.
I don’t often get into an emergency braking situations, normally read the situation ahead and have reacted to it long before we get to that point, although I’m sure I’m not unique in that and most experienced drivers do the same, but there have been enough instances of trucks ploughing into the back of a queue of traffic with tragic consequences to know that drivers aren’t always on it, often we find they are totally distracted and doing stuff we wouldn’t do, but others have been momentary lapses of concentration and for me it a case of “therefore but for the grace of God” or whichever deity you thank when a higher force seems to have got you through another tough moment, 
my personal one is an ethereal deity without name or religion or form.
So I look at these systems as a last line of defence, like the stability system I specced on a race trailer, it cost a few thousand extra at the time, (not my money, but has to be justified to the company directors) but my attitude was I doubt I’d ever require it, but maybe one day it will save me and a £1/4m trailer, so a couple of thousand seems a small price to pay, as does the odd false alarm on EABS, and my experience of the Actros and FH is you get a warning first, it only hits the brakes if you don’t react.
Franglais:
And from your previous post, yes, Id like to give an i-shift a good run out. If its as good as many say great, but so far my experience has been of average to crap auto boxes.
Well, you know how much hatred I have for auto 'boxes in trucks but even I have to concede Volvos ishift is very good, I haven’t even driven a one of the newer ones, the last I drove was a 12 plate which was very accomplished. The new dual clutch one must be amazing. Having said all that I still wouldn’t choose one over the comfortshift.
switchlogic:
Franglais:
But comparing a 20 year old truck with no electronics to a new truck, isn`t really a fair comparison.Not my comparison though, is done by others with rose tinted soecs
But you too join in! You say new trucks are better than old ones.
What Im trying to say is that new trucks are a mixed bag. The cabs and engines are better. The brakes and suspension are generally better, depending on how they are specced. But the electronics are not yet up to much. Good ideas that dont yet work well in my experience. Now, I havent driven my truck at full speed towards a brick wall to check whether or not it works. :open_mouth: But I will accept fully that it would stop the truck. I also accept that it can save lives if the driver is incompetent, and NO, Im not claiming to be a god, so one day it could be me that needs help. I say that the Lane Departure is crap in the trucks Ive driven, the EABS is subject to false positives, in bad weather fails, and according to the manual may not recognise pedestrians etc. So far Ive had auto boxes that overheat the clutch, choose the wrong gear for many situations, stall the engine, and are a chuffing pointless pain. A modern manual box doesnt need the timing of Ginger Rogers or the muscles of Schwarzenegger to use it, and needs as much thinking from a driver as an auto. OK a bad driver will burn out a clutch through incompetence, and that is a reason to buy them, but it doesnt make them IMHO a better drive.
I`m not saying all modern trucks are totally evil, but they are nothing like as good as they should be.
I must have been so lucky in the trucks that I drive then as I don’t have anything like the amount of problems some of you lads seem to suffer
Franglais:
switchlogic:
Franglais:
But comparing a 20 year old truck with no electronics to a new truck, isn`t really a fair comparison.Not my comparison though, is done by others with rose tinted soecs
But you too join in! You say new trucks are better than old ones.
Actually all I said was they are much more comfortable. And they are
muckles:
Franglais:
switchlogic:
muckles:
I’ve been watching this thread while I’ve been away on a trip to Southern Spain. The truck I been driving is a 2004 Scania 4 series, manual gearbox and no sensors, even got an analogue tachograph. A couple of weeks ago I did a trip to Italy in a newish Actros, equipped with all the latest acronyms.
Did I enjoy the driving, yes on both cases, great roads and scenery, driving the Mercedes is far more relaxing and the Scania does take far more driving, especially coming down some of the hills as it only has an exhaust brake and not a proper retarder like the Mercedes, but that’s down to the original spec as the retarder on this Actros is an optional extra.
But if I had a choice of which one I’d take on a regular basis it would be the Mercedes, not because there is anything particularly wrong with the Scania, it’s a good truck and well looked after, but having driven the 2 back to back the progress is obvious in the driving and the use of cab space.
As for false alarms on automatic braking system, well I did get a couple when I first drove it, but soon learnt to anticipate them or react to the warning before the truck.
If you’ve found yourself behind a slow vehicle when the ACC is on, well I don’t think you’ve been concentrating on what’s going on around you. If you’re catching another vehicle with the ACC on, you can simply override by putting you foot on the accelerator, it even tells you the other vehicles speed so you can decide whether it’s worth overtaking from some distance back.
Personally I think its down to mastering the vehicle, whether it’s the latest bit of kit or something from a previous era, each will have their good and bad points and the more you drive them the more you should understand them and therefore get the best out of them and that should give the sense of pride in the job.Finally someone talking sense! I’ve driven most modern lorries at this stage plus I’ve driven oldies like 143’s and F12’s recently and always think these lads who go on about how much theyd prefer to have one of the oldies clearly hadn’t driven one recently. Do a full shift in a 20+ year old 143 and you’ll feel every minute of it come the end of the day! Your last paragraph is spot on, all trucks need time to master to get their full potential of of them. Approach each truck with and open mind and take time to learn how to drive it just like you would the oldies and you’ll enjoy the experience much more
Muckles, you
re saying there is a fault with the EABS, but you have learnt to overcome it. I say that fault shouldnt be there, it should have been sorted before it was specced for Eu6 trucks.I don’t think it’s a fault with EABS, but limitations of the system, the limitations of these electronic systems that will keep the likes of us in the cab for the foreseeable future.
I don’t often get into an emergency braking situations, normally read the situation ahead and have reacted to it long before we get to that point, although I’m sure I’m not unique in that and most experienced drivers do the same, but there have been enough instances of trucks ploughing into the back of a queue of traffic with tragic consequences to know that drivers aren’t always on it, often we find they are totally distracted and doing stuff we wouldn’t do, but others have been momentary lapses of concentration and for me it a case of “therefore but for the grace of God” or whichever deity you thank when a higher force seems to have got you through another tough moment,
So I look at these systems as a last line of defence, like the stability system I specced on a race trailer, it cost a few thousand extra at the time, (not my money, but has to be justified to the company directors) but my attitude was I doubt I’d ever require it, but maybe one day it will save me and a £1/4m trailer, so a couple of thousand seems a small price to pay, as does the odd false alarm on EABS, and my experience of the Actros and FH is you get a warning first, it only hits the brakes if you don’t react.
Yep, I accept that even with their faults the EABS systems are here to stay. (And I dont turn mine off, in spite of its false alerts.) But to be picky, and go back to the original question, I contend that they take some fun out of driving. Reacting to situations caused by a safety system shouldnt be necessary. If Im driving on a difficult road I don`t need to be distracted by unnecessary whistles and bells, thank you. I am prepared to react to circumstances as they arise, but why throw more at me?
“Last line of defence”? Good description.