shep532:
I was also lead to believe (only last week) that a driver on a course I was running had been fined £75.00 for taking a break at a TESCO RDC. VOSA locked all the drivers in the waiting room and went round them one by one. It was apparently £1 for each minute break had been illegally recorded. He was lucky - one lad had been there for 4 hours and apparently the £1 doubles after three hours It seems they should have recorded POA and VOSA took statements from all the Tesco staff saying the drivers had been advised in advance how log the POA would be. I know … just not fair eh?
Someones winding you up mate…
I agree what powers do vosa have to lock doors on premises , i would say none .if the driver isnrt in the c=vehicle or unloading i dare say he would be sitting down somewhere having a brew
Another problem with POA resetting driving time is that for example, if you took 15mins break 30mins POA it will reset. When you then take your 30mins break after, say 1hrs driving, it does not reset and will flash that you are on 4h 15m when you have driven for 3h 15m, although you have taken a 45min break.
waddy640:
Another problem with POA resetting driving time is that for example, if you took 15mins break 30mins POA it will reset. When you then take your 30mins break after, say 1hrs driving, it does not reset and will flash that you are on 4h 15m when you have driven for 3h 15m, although you have taken a 45min break.
Crap software.
I’ve not tested it, but I believe the new tacho’s have fixed this and only POA on card 2 now resets the driving time.
I run a new tacho but don’t use POA. I’m salaried and even before then, I was docked 45 mins for breaks, no matter how many were taken or paid straight through, so never really cared.
If I was ever in a job where they refused to pay for ANY breaks, I wouldn’t be there long, caught in a jam, have to use a 10hr driving time AND get docked an hour an a half for the privelidge??
ROG:
I always wondered why POA had been brought in instead of having the three choices of driving, other work and break/rest
Do you really not know the answer to this, or are you playing ‘Devils Advocate’?
It has has been discussed so many times in the past, in threads you have contributed to so presumably read.
ROG:
If on POA the driver cannot be driving or working as that would be illegal
If on break the driver cannot be driving or working as that would be illegal
The driver is recouperating on both
So what am I missing ?
You have missed the RHA, FTA and every other bosses in transport association.
They lobbied for POA as an alternative to break. Many operators do not pay time on break, but they knew they wouldn’t get away with only paying 48hrs a week on average when most drivers are at work for 55 or more hours plus breaks. We can now differentiate between break and waiting time by using POA. Obviously the definition has been carefully worded, so that we don’t have to be told how long our POA will be, if we can work it out for ourselves.
POA essentially means ‘at work and available to, but not actually doing work’.
Break means ‘at work but not available to do work (because I’m on my break)’.
Fairly simple really
P.S. 48 hours pay comes from the WTD thing about your average working time over a reference period. As POA doesn’t count as Work, it doesn’t count towards that 48 hours, but it isn’t Break, so it doesn’t come under their ‘we don’t pay breaks’ rule either, so you can be paid for it.
Some drivers have said they don’t get paid for POA either. If my boss didn’t pay POA, he wouldn’t have to worry about it, he would never see it.
That reason makes sense
Seriously, I could not work out why there is POA and break when it seemed that break covered all the criteria for not driving or working
shep532:
I was also lead to believe (only last week) that a driver on a course I was running had been fined £75.00 for taking a break at a TESCO RDC. VOSA locked all the drivers in the waiting room and went round them one by one. It was apparently £1 for each minute break had been illegally recorded. He was lucky - one lad had been there for 4 hours and apparently the £1 doubles after three hours It seems they should have recorded POA and VOSA took statements from all the Tesco staff saying the drivers had been advised in advance how log the POA would be. I know … just not fair eh?
shep532:
I was also lead to believe (only last week) that a driver on a course I was running had been fined £75.00 for taking a break at a TESCO RDC. VOSA locked all the drivers in the waiting room and went round them one by one. It was apparently £1 for each minute break had been illegally recorded. He was lucky - one lad had been there for 4 hours and apparently the £1 doubles after three hours It seems they should have recorded POA and VOSA took statements from all the Tesco staff saying the drivers had been advised in advance how log the POA would be. I know … just not fair eh?
Someones winding you up mate…
D’ya reckon? Doh fell for it again.
Well led to believe would impy you believed what they told you or had no reason not to believe it, that was your choice to say it, the same as I chose to say it as OP.
shep532:
I was also lead to believe (only last week) that a driver on a course I was running had been fined £75.00 for taking a break at a TESCO RDC. VOSA locked all the drivers in the waiting room and went round them one by one. It was apparently £1 for each minute break had been illegally recorded. He was lucky - one lad had been there for 4 hours and apparently the £1 doubles after three hours It seems they should have recorded POA and VOSA took statements from all the Tesco staff saying the drivers had been advised in advance how log the POA would be. I know … just not fair eh?
Someones winding you up mate…
D’ya reckon? Doh fell for it again.
Well led to believe would impy you believed what they told you or had no reason not to believe it, that was your choice to say it, the same as I chose to say it as OP.
but what about if he’d of said this after it
shep532:
Of course we all know this is no more true than saying our European partners count POA as BREAK - they don’t.
schrodingers cat:
Well led to believe would impy you believed what they told you or had no reason not to believe it, that was your choice to say it, the same as I chose to say it as OP.
Now I am confused. I thought lead to believe just meant someone tried convincing me something was fact. They tried to ‘lead me’ to believe something. Like lead a horse to water etc
I can honestly say the guy really did believe what he was telling me. It wasn’t a MMTM it was an IT WAS ME - and in a room with other people I couldn’t just make a fool of him - wouldn’t be professional now would it? But I also couldn’t let the other 5 lads take it away as anything but stupidity. Difficult situation really. All I could do was show the VOSA guide to fixed penalties and demonstrate that no such fine existed - never mind the offense he reckoned he was fined for.
He was gonna email the receipt for the fine that night when he got home. Must have decided to post it instead cos it hasn’t arrived yet
schrodingers cat:
Well led to believe would impy you believed what they told you or had no reason not to believe it, that was your choice to say it, the same as I chose to say it as OP.
Now I am confused. I thought lead to believe just meant someone tried convincing me something was fact. They tried to ‘lead me’ to believe something. Like lead a horse to water etc
I can honestly say the guy really did believe what he was telling me. It wasn’t a MMTM it was an IT WAS ME - and in a room with other people I couldn’t just make a fool of him - wouldn’t be professional now would it? But I also couldn’t let the other 5 lads take it away as anything but stupidity. Difficult situation really. All I could do was show the VOSA guide to fixed penalties and demonstrate that no such fine existed - never mind the offense he reckoned he was fined for.
He was gonna email the receipt for the fine that night when he got home. Must have decided to post it instead cos it hasn’t arrived yet
Led to belive would say that an event or series of events has led to you believing that something is true, this would be differentiated from just being told something where you may or not believe what you have been told for example MMTM.
I have read from a few different sources on this site that other European countries count POA as break and thats why the Tacho is set up that way. As far as I know this has never been disputed (until now), and without trolling through thousands of posts I won’t be able to prove it. Does anyone with European driving experience know the answer?
But if you state that you were led to believe something then you believed it at the time.
I still don’t know whether what I was led to believe (European countries accept POA as break) is true or not but I tend to take everything I read, hear or am told with a pinch of salt. I will however be swayed by hearing something from multiple sources.
An example would be that I accept nothing I read in the Daily Mail, the Sun, the Daily express or Daily Sports (take anything with daily in front of the name) as fact, because I know they all talk bollox, the rest I would start to believe if I hear it from other sources
It seems they should have recorded POA and VOSA took statements from all the Tesco staff saying the drivers had been advised in advance how log the POA would be. I know … just not fair eh?
Doh fell for it again.