far back way ago there was this company i worked for going down the “er pan” between 09-10. now as being my self just a “driver” you would receive one’s wage slip quick look and check amount/tax/nat-insurance ,yep all good.well NO 
just the other week i received a letter from H.M.R.C 
explaining that i had not paid any nat-insurance for the year 09-10 just before i had left the sinking ship 
oh no what shall i do now 
,any way after a very nice chat to the lady from H.M.R.C who said if i can produce EVIDENCE from my wage slips that clearly shows marked down that something was taken from my wages then they will correct it for me 
and guess what i have found all the wage slips for that period right up to when i departed company with them, oh and my p45 they gave me 
. so the morral of this story is just because you think your safe from prosecution , because the old company does’nt exist anymore think again because that kind lady from H.M.R.C is comeing for you 
now of to the post office i go . just one other thing where did all that cash come from week after week after week to buy diesel mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
This is a typical is example of hmrc targeting the little man
Good on you for keeping all your pay slips , as far as I no id say you should keep things like wage slips p60 etc for five years
What a shame it is though that they arnt getting any cash of you to pass onto those unfortunate individuals that find themselves on BENIFITS
O well someone will have to do without there ciggies n booze now
This sounds like a symptom of “pseudo PAYE” where you’ve had tax and insurance “deducted” each week on your payslip, but this money was then retained by the company issuing the payslip, and not forwarded on to the inland revenue.
Said company then goes ■■■■ up, and then HMRC chase the only link they have left - you.
Give them the boss’s name and address, and tell HMRC that you’ve already paid tax & insurance to them (your payslips prove it). That then makes it a matter of the company’s debt (since tax debts cannot be dodged by bankruptcy) rather than yours. A big reason for company bankruptcy is they spend all their money on paying off the tax debt, and then have nothing left for anything else, including next week’s suppliers tab, and this weeks payroll! HMRC get paid first. Everyone else usually loses their shirts.
Dumping a tax debt into someone else’s pocket by going bust has got to be a form of theft here hasn’t it?
Keeping the payslips proves that in good faith you’ve already “paid” your tax & NI, and it’s the firm that are attempting to defraud you to get out of paying HMRC.
“Keep all payslips for 6 years” is a good rule of thumb. This sort of mishap is a good reason as to why. 
I’ve only got ‘odd’ payslips, but they go back to around 2000, but litereally just the odd 1 here and there.
So, if I got this call, would just showing them 1 be enough to prove that it was going out, or would I need all for any time they request?
similar happened to me and although I didn’t have full collection of payslips they were happy enough with the few that I did have.
edited to add.
you can check if your NI contributions are up to date by checking your pension forecast from Newcastle on an annual basis.
There is an online link through yougov or similar.
del949:
similar happened to me and although I didn’t have full collection of payslips they were happy enough with the few that I did have.
Good to know del, thanks
waynedl:
I’ve only got ‘odd’ payslips, but they go back to around 2000, but litereally just the odd 1 here and there.So, if I got this call, would just showing them 1 be enough to prove that it was going out, or would I need all for any time they request?
I had to supply 3 months worth, and a letter of redundancy when putting in a rebate claim for tax year 2010-11.
They were having trouble at HMRC believing that I’d not already had the correct tax deducted.
I didn’t get any agency work between the December I left work, and April when I got my first assignment. I didn’t claim a penny in benefits either, but I was nonetheless “not working”. What I DID get was a £2500 rebate because I’d already had that much extra tax deducted off my VR payment, on the assumption that I’d still be earning the same pay once I left. Yeh right!
If I’d claimed any benefits, or done any work, those earnings would have been deducted straight off that rebate payment.
Sometimes, its cheaper just to take the damned sabbatical, and to hell with what anyone thinks about the definition of “sponger”.
I don’t call getting my own money back “sponging”, but there are those on here that would obviously leap into a job that paid near zero net pay - just for the pride of saying “I never stopped working”. f–k that! 
Look after your payslips. They can be quite valuable. At very least, you should always have the last 3 months worth. Just think of them like retaining your tachos, except VOSA will never be bunging you a cheque for getting a clean bill of health on one of their spot roadside checks.
best bit is while the old company was going down the #@ter they re-financed to start up their phoenix company, and think all is well but they seem to forgetting the fact that they have knowingly defrauded the H.M.R.C. oh and myself and other drivers. so here’s a thing if you think your clever and out of trouble,think again H.M.R.C want’s there money back, and by the fact your only allowed to run 2 vehicles and trailors on your dodgey o’licence you have managed to obtain for your phoenix company ( mr tc ) from bristol will not be a happy bunny will he. 
My policy was to keep all my P60s and I have them going back about 30 years. I also kept wage slips for the current year.
There can be any number of occasions when you might be required to ‘prove’ your income - mortgage applications are one, and in my case my daughter’s uni finance application was another.
flapper:
best bit is while the old company was going down the #@ter they re-financed to start up their phoenix company, and think all is well
It’s not really fraud unless they were siphoning it off for private spending. If they were deducting it from wages and then spending it all on diesel and there being nothing left to hand over to HMRC at the end of the month that’s just how it goes with any firm with cashflow difficulties some will eventually go pop but others will trade through it and repay the debt to HMRC.
No firm will be effectively deducting it out of wages and keeping it in a special safe account for a month before handing it over to HMRC with the money sat there doing nothing. It will all just go into the cashflow melting pot in good or bad times and in bad times it’s less likely to.
monarch of the highway:
This is a typical is example of hmrc targeting the little man
Good on you for keeping all your pay slips , as far as I no id say you should keep things like wage slips p60 etc for five years
What a shame it is though that they arnt getting any cash of you to pass onto those unfortunate individuals that find themselves on BENIFITS
O well someone will have to do without there ciggies n booze now
+1
They know ■■■■ well their debt went up in smoke when the company folded and I think it’s pretty outrageous they try to threaten the money out of any ordinary working person that doesn’t know their rights.
HMRC only approach the driver because they were not aware that the driver had already had deductions for tax and NI made from pay. Once they’ve proved it with payslips, etc. they’ll take a closer look at the recently folded company. Since taxes owed are effectively secured on that company, it is in the interests of HMRC to audit it firmly to assertain that no fraud has taken place.
Deducting tax & NI from wages and then NOT putting it in a segregated account (where you used to get interest for nowt, but now you get nowt for nowt!) is effectively fraud in any case!
If a broker (for example) accepting monies from the investing public were to keep such money in “their own slush fund for day to day petty cash expenses”, then they have broken FSA rules on “the segregation of client funds”.
Sure, one can argue that FSA only counts for the financial services, BUT theft is theft nonetheless, and they’ll be some law somewhere (not necassarily in company law) that states it is illegal to deduct ANYTHING from employees, calling it “tax and NI”, and then NOT using it for that purpose. False representation to both employee AND HMRC. A similar fraud might be committed by a landlord taking money from a tenant, not declaring to their mortgage lender that they have sub-let the property, and then defaulting the mortgage leaving the tenant holding the baby when the bailiffs turn up to remove articles of value that should be coming from the landlord, who of course is now long gone, with any tenant advance payments to boot! In this case, deducting “rent” that then goes straight into the pocket of someone who didn’t actually own the house in the first place has become fraud - because you’re not supposed to do it without the mortgage lenders permission!
The folding transport firm might get away with attempting to defraud Joe Bloggs, who hasn’t a clue to his rights, but HMRC are pretty hot these days on firms that are already close to the wind by using deducted money upto the end of the month, when it’s supposed to be handed over, or at least set aside in a segregated account. They’ve had some freebie cashflow help, but still they choose to take the ■■■■ out of HMRC hospitality in not demanding the immediate handover of deducted tax & NI. This of course is the danger of “pseudo PAYE” as opposed to the above board “normal” kind.
FFS playing it straight doesn’t make a loss for the firm does it? - How hard is it to just play it straight, and play by the rules?
Directors always get to keep their wages right upto the last minute, and then keep their private assets bought with those wages even after the firm has folded.
Too many loopholes there to encouraged crooked actions that actually cause these outfits to fold in the first place!
Boss doesn’t tighten HIS belt when money gets tight at the firm… Employees expected to take the brunt of inefficiency damage to the businesss, which usually comes in the form of “standing charges” even when no business is gotten by the firm. Office rent too high? Company cars laid on for boss(es)? Mickey mouse expenses? Boss using company funds to subsidise their private spending?
I never saw a boss walk away from a bailiff-closed business with the probverbial barrel around them - put it that way!
“Ltd” isn’t fit for purpose, and should be totally reformed in law. 
What you’re saying is like a slightly naive layperson’s view of how things ought to operate.
People I’ve worked with have had these letters from HMRC about tax & NI when they’ve worked for high-profile blue chip companies that have folded and it’s been all over the news, they are well aware of the situation. It’s not some minority that worked for fly-by-nights and went to work with a hear no evil see no evil approach.
Nothing’s segregated in special accounts the same as VAT which is only paid over quarterly. HMRC have not had preferential creditor status for a long time. Ultimately it’s up to them what action they decide to take regarding delinquent accounts. a while back they made deals with a lot of struggling businesses for them to clear arrears by instalments over a long period.
Getting worked up about directors driving away from failed businesses in flash cars is ok when they’ve deliberately set up a businesses with a view to doing this repeatedly but most are just employees of the ltd company the same as everyone else as long as they’ve behaved legally that’s just the way it is and from that point of view they should no more lose any pay they’ve previously received than anyone else.
monarch of the highway:
This is a typical is example of hmrc targeting the little man
Good on you for keeping all your pay slips , as far as I no id say you should keep things like wage slips p60 etc for five years
What a shame it is though that they arnt getting any cash of you to pass onto those unfortunate individuals that find themselves on BENIFITS
O well someone will have to do without there ciggies n booze now
My wife goes mad if i don’t keep a wage slip and from reading the op story i now know it to be worth it
Own Account Driver:
What you’re saying is like a slightly naive layperson’s view of how things ought to operate.People I’ve worked with have had these letters from HMRC about tax & NI when they’ve worked for high-profile blue chip companies that have folded and it’s been all over the news, they are well aware of the situation. It’s not some minority that worked for fly-by-nights and went to work with a hear no evil see no evil approach.
Nothing’s segregated in special accounts the same as VAT which is only paid over quarterly. HMRC have not had preferential creditor status for a long time. Ultimately it’s up to them what action they decide to take regarding delinquent accounts. a while back they made deals with a lot of struggling businesses for them to clear arrears by instalments over a long period.
Getting worked up about directors driving away from failed businesses in flash cars is ok when they’ve deliberately set up a businesses with a view to doing this repeatedly but most are just employees of the ltd company the same as everyone else as long as they’ve behaved legally that’s just the way it is and from that point of view they should no more lose any pay they’ve previously received than anyone else.
As I understand it - when a company goes into liquidation then the first call on their assets is the liquidator. After that comes any wages/redundancy etc, and then HMRC. What’s left goes to the creditors.
My sister used to do this work and one job she enjoyed when starting a liquidation was going round and collecting all the company car keys and credit cards. If they were owned then they could be auctioned quickly, and if leased then off contract asap. Many directors didn’t seem to understand what it meant until they had their car taken away.
The only preferential creditors these days are staff for wages HMRC are just a run of the mill unsecured creditor that have to join the queue with everyone else.
Secured creditors come before absolutely everyone including the administrators fees, where they’re say secured against the property, when the property is sold their debt would be satisfied entirely from the proceeds of any sale.
Staff wages are reasonably ok as even if the administrators can’t raise enough to pay them the national insurance fund will cover pay, holiday and redundancy to a max wage of something like £400 per week.
Who petitions for most company bankrupcties then, if not HMRC?
The staff won’t be doing it. The suppliers know they’ll be way down the pecking order if they do it.
That leaves the company itself. It’s no wonder that “fraud” might be suspected during such liquidations eh?
Sure as anything, the directors get to keep private assets they’ve acclumulated whilst being very likely overpaid by the company when it was solvent.
Forget company cars - I’m talking about villas abroad, fancy bank accounts, and cars in their own names brought with that huge bonus they paid themselves just days before the firm folded. These are deemed “untouchable” assets behind the Ltd protection I believe.
Boss keeps the house, the car, the lifestyle (able to set up a phoenix very soon after) whilst the staff are lucky to receive enough to pay the bills this month.
Sure, they might get paid out of some government (tax-payer-supplied) disaster pot of sorts, but that money isn’t coming away from what the directors have already walked with does it?
If HMRC are no longer “preferred creditor”, then how come we have not turned into Greece already? This is where taxes are something “the rich pay if they feel like it, but probably won’t if they can possibly get out of it”.
As for the liquidator - I thought this was a court appointed (ie government person) rather than some accountant acting privately for a petitioning plaintiff more often than not. With private bankruptcies, most petitioners are the debtor themselves, which is actually looked at dimly by the court. If you’re going to go bust, then let someone else make it so rather than throw in the towel to save some suit some money. Outside petitions for bankruptcy only occur if it is estimated for there to be considerable break-up value in the liquidated firm. They won’t chase a firm themselves who don’t have a pot to ■■■■ in I would have thought - then and now.
A secured creditor gets repaid from the selling of business property - about the only thing involving secured debts here I believe.
If guys like Azil Nadir can ultimately get locked away for longer than a ■■■■■■ over Polly Peck collapsing, then I don’t see any reason why other bosses of failed firms can’t also be brought to book once it’s established that large sums were taken out of the company and privatised when the firm was already in at least “cashflow difficulties”. 
Winseer:
Who petitions for most company bankrupcties then, if not HMRC?The banks these days, as they are the ones holding the security
What security? Mickey mouse start-ups are going to be renting an emtpy office with a phone in the middle of the floor.
I’'m not talking about transport firms with yards, tractors, trailers, and some actual buildings, but those firms that have a fancy plaque sign on the ground floor of an office block - such as the one attacked by Michael Green a few months back, or advertising “franchises” and the like.
Ltd for a firm with no actual assets is practically licensed theft, because of the ease in which such a firm can start, take money, fold, re-start as phoenix company, and so on.
They’ll say “We went bust, because we lost too many customers to turn a profit” when the whole income thing was one big ponzi scheme that was only ever going to stand up whilst there continued to be another mug coming through the door parting with a big wedge.
If adminstrators turn up, then the first thing they’ll do is ■■■■■ jobs and cut pay - NEVER re-negotiating the overpriced rents for these posh sites.
Why? - Because the landlords are made up of similar people to the banks. "Mustn’t defraud them, only the public need be kicked in the face with austerity which, oh yes, WE created as well!
The whole pantheon of “take the public’s money and put nothing back” society needs to be replaced by those who’d like to see Brits creating their own prosperity out of their own livlihoods, rather than allowing foreigners to steal the good bits, and leaving the rest of us with pointing fingers from each other when one’s lifestyle drops so much, it’s necassary to put claims in just to get by.
Take a good look at this around you who’ve got considerably richer since 2008. Anyone getting richer with any sense would be keeping a low profile at this point you’d think, but nope, there’s plenty of “flashiness” going on around here - especially among those who are in the business of selling things that you HAVE to buy. NHS administrators, Councellors, Accountants, and landlords - but especially financial sector workers like the interest peddlers who’'ll try to enforce secured conditions on unsecured loans, charge any amoung they like for both the interest and the service, get rich on the proceeds, and yet tell their hapless depositors that “Time’s are 'ard, and we can only give you near the base rate as a savings account return”. Fiddle fiddle fiddle.
What do we have the power to do? Ditch the job, rather than take a cut in pay and conditions, refuse to pay unsecured debt, and more importantly refuse to take any more debt out, avoid handing money over for anything not absolutely necassary, and then make your OWN cuts to the price of those things you’ve gotta have like mortgage payments, car insurance, food shopping, and telling any stranger who approaches you to get lost, because they’re only after your money.
A northern cash ethic with a southern work ethic. Dangerous mix. Good job I’m not in any danger of becoming a politician!
I’m not racist, xenophobic, or anti-religious. I could be described as against those legally able to steal out money, if one is poor enough not to have the money to send it offshore, and avoid paying for life’s current rounds of bullcrap. Is that “Suitist”?
We “plebs” have become serfs and indentured slaves by the backdoor. Now we need an emancipation and vote reform to give us back our powers again.
Vote Reform - Compulsory voting, like Australia. Those who didn’t feel like voting, will vote against the incumbent in protest. This creates a wall of public the government therefore has to go out of their way to please to stay in office.
Vote Reform - Shareholding Democracy. One shareholding = One vote. No more 10,000 shareholders vote “no” to million pound director’s bonus when 2 institutions owning a billion shares between them vote “yes”, and carry the fat cat’s pay cheque motion!
Emancipation - Unsecured debts are not enforceble in law once a person’s pay or job has been cut. If lenders don’t like that, then they need only lend to the
creditworthy, or make sure that jobs are not lost by actually lending on good terms to the employers!
Lobby your MP.