GUY Big J 8LXB Tractor Unit

[spud1960]

ramone:

Telekonsteve:
2nd November 1973, Page 30
Keywords : Rolls-royce Eagle, Hospitality / Recreation
• Power ratos of up to 8_62 bhp /ton are now available for Guy Big 14T
32-ton tractive units following the announcement today of three new
engine options for the range.
The opbons which are now available are the turbocharged Rolls-Royce
Eagle Mark Ill 290 (developing 271 bhp net installed to BS AU 141a
1971), the ■■■■■■■ NTL 290 (276 bhp) and the Gardner BIXB (246
bhp) Power-to-weight ratios with these engines in vehicles operating at
32 tons gcw are 847, 862 and T 7 bhp/ton respectively.
Borg and Beck twin-plate clutches and Fuller RTO g50gA range-
change gearboxes are specified with crawler ratio of 8.76:1 and first
gear of Overdrive top on this nine-speed gearbox is
The nominal input torque limit of 900 1b n IS well above the torque
output of the
engine options concerned_ The clutch is hydrau"cally operated with air
assistance provided on Rolls-Royce and ■■■■■■■ installations.
Ar cleaners are rear-of-cab gantrymounted, a Cooper 14in_ Cylopac
being specified for Rolls-Royce and Gardner and a GKN Farr 48-cell
Unipanic for the ■■■■■■■■ Fan diameter has been increased to 24in.
and radiators with an area of 837 sq are fitted for Rolls-Royce
and ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ vehicles while Gardner-engined units have 5.85
sq radiators. The former also have Viso F cold-start devices fitted.
The new cab front panel which has recently been introduced to all Guy
models is also fitted.
Behind the air cleaner gantry a new underframe is now common to all
Guy tractive units.
2nd November 1973
Zoom pa
Page 30
Better torque
in Mklll
Leyland 500
— Test bed
fuel counter
Noise regs
for" for US
Noticed an error?

that’s a piece from cm archive, which I have trawled through. Nothing more on a 240 though

Isnt this the proof youve been looking for ■■?

Well although it looks pretty conclusive to me, the next comment from the doubters will be that although Guy offered the 8LXB there’s no actual proof that any were built

[fryske]

harry_gill:
Hiya,
Guy’s did produce a tilt cab job Big J, but seemingly it needed major surgery to get
to the tilting stage I only ever saw one with “the shed tipped” and that was a 180
Gardner engined job in I think at Newport or Cardiff BRS workshops.
thanks harry, long retired.

It was (I think) only the early ■■■■■■■ V6 engined versions that tilted. Major job though as you say -

[bewick]

Spud1960:

ramone:

Telekonsteve:
2nd November 1973, Page 30
Keywords : Rolls-royce Eagle, Hospitality / Recreation
• Power ratos of up to 8_62 bhp /ton are now available for Guy Big 14T
32-ton tractive units following the announcement today of three new
engine options for the range.
The opbons which are now available are the turbocharged Rolls-Royce
Eagle Mark Ill 290 (developing 271 bhp net installed to BS AU 141a
1971), the ■■■■■■■ NTL 290 (276 bhp) and the Gardner BIXB (246
bhp) Power-to-weight ratios with these engines in vehicles operating at
32 tons gcw are 847, 862 and T 7 bhp/ton respectively.
Borg and Beck twin-plate clutches and Fuller RTO g50gA range-
change gearboxes are specified with crawler ratio of 8.76:1 and first
gear of Overdrive top on this nine-speed gearbox is
The nominal input torque limit of 900 1b n IS well above the torque
output of the
engine options concerned_ The clutch is hydrau"cally operated with air
assistance provided on Rolls-Royce and ■■■■■■■ installations.
Ar cleaners are rear-of-cab gantrymounted, a Cooper 14in_ Cylopac
being specified for Rolls-Royce and Gardner and a GKN Farr 48-cell
Unipanic for the ■■■■■■■■ Fan diameter has been increased to 24in.
and radiators with an area of 837 sq are fitted for Rolls-Royce
and ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ vehicles while Gardner-engined units have 5.85
sq radiators. The former also have Viso F cold-start devices fitted.
The new cab front panel which has recently been introduced to all Guy
models is also fitted.
Behind the air cleaner gantry a new underframe is now common to all
Guy tractive units.
2nd November 1973
Zoom pa
Page 30
Better torque
in Mklll
Leyland 500
— Test bed
fuel counter
Noise regs
for" for US
Noticed an error?

that’s a piece from cm archive, which I have trawled through. Nothing more on a 240 though

Isnt this the proof youve been looking for ■■?

Well although it looks pretty conclusive to me, the next comment from the doubters will be that although Guy offered the 8LXB there’s no actual proof that any were built

Correct !!

[windrush]

Spud1960:
Well although it looks pretty conclusive to me, the next comment from the doubters will be that although Guy offered the 8LXB there’s no actual proof that any were built

Most probably true --------------------------------------------------apart from the 40 that S-O-M had of course…

Pete.

[valkyrie]

Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 4x2 Tractive Units.TruckNetUK.Old Time Lorries. Monday,7th December,2015.

Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 4x2 Tractive Units:29 were actually built and operated by British road haulage companies.Objective facts

VALKYRIE:
Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 4x2 Tractive Units.TruckNetUk.Old Time Lorries. Thursday,8th October,2015.

First of all,thanks to all those people who have supported me during this debate

I have sent a further request for information to The British Commercial Vehicle Museum Archive Division,and a copy of this letter and Postal Order and Recorded Delivery documents are shown here:-

BCVM GUY BIG J LETTER TO BCVM PAGE 1 2-10-2015 :-

BCVM GUY BIG J LETTER TO BCVM PAGE 2 2-10-2015:-

BCVM GUY BIG J LETTER TO BCVM POSTAL ORDER AND RECORDED DELIVERY 2-10-2015:-

We will just have to wait and see what The British Commercial Vehicle Museum Archives can come up with

Meanwhile,I have sent an EMail to another museum in the hope that it can shed some light on Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Diesel Engine production,engine numbers,sales orders,engine allocations,etc. I await this museum’s reply.

And I might make contact with yet another museum for photocopies of some material…

Watch this space …

Welcome home,Bewick I hope that you had a good holiday.

You still have not told me on how to pronounce your name: Berwick? Bee-wick? BUICK? as in the famous American motorcar marque,or whatever
Please explain.Thanks

VALKYRIE

---

Spud1960 QUOTE :Well although it looks pretty conclusive to me, the next comment from the doubters will be that although Guy offered the 8LXB there’s no actual proof that any were built UNQUOTE.

Bewick QUOTE Correct!! UNQUOTE I’ve asked this question before (please see last but one line of above photocopied post) :how do you pronounce
Bewick? Bee-wick? BUICK? as in the famous American motorcar marque,or whatever

Well the doubting Thomases are wrong in reality. I wrote another letter to the Archive Division of The British Commercial Vehicle Museum,at
Leyland,BCVM Historian and Archivist,Gordon Whittaker,replied to me with the following information in his letter,please QV below for the reproduction.

I would have gladly payed a certain amount of money to get all known information on each and every one of the 29 Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Diesel-Engined 4x2 Tractive Units built,but at a £50 information fee per each Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 4x2 Tractive Unit built,I really cannot afford it - £1450 in total

So,with respect,instead of doubting and/or debating ,whatever,I strongly suggest that you actually visit the archives of The British Commercial
Vehicle Museum,at King Street,Leyland,and look,see and read the authentic and genuine documents,etc,of Guy Motors in regard to the above
29 Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 4x2 Tractive Units built! I am not being clever when I say this:I am just being REAL

In regard to photographs of any of those 29 Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 4x2 Tractive Units built,Guy Motors had their own photograph and publicity
division in their independent,Jaguar and British Motor Holdings days. But after Guy became part of British Leyland,Leyland Motors’ own photograph
and publicity division mainly handled the photographs and publicity for the various marques of the British Leyland empire,but the emphasis was
on Leyland (especially Leyland) and to a lesser extent Scammell and AEC motor vehicles,at the expense of Guy,Thornycroft,Bristol,Daimler,Albion,etc. So there is no wonder why Guy-British Leyland publicity photographs of Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB 4x2
tractive units are rare - or if they exist at all

FURTHER RESEARCH:Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 4x2 Tractive Units.
I sent an in-depth EMail-Letter to the Anson Engine Museum a few weeks since,and had a conversation with the museum’s curator on the phone.
I am about to send a further letter - by post this time - to the Anson Engine Museum - complete with those Gardner 8LXB engine numbers
from the 29 Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB tractive unit list from the BCVM. The Anson Engine Museum MAY OR MAY NOT have details of the above Gardner 8LXB engines,since the museum’s Gardner engine records do not cover 1974 et seq.Unfortunately.

There are one or two other avenues of research that I am pursuing,but I am not building my hopes up.

I will try to keep you posted

Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 4x2 Tractive Units:29 were actually built and operated by British road haulage companies.Objective facts

MOTORS.BCVM.LETTER FROM BCVM IN REGARD TO THE 29 GUY BIG J GARDNER 8LXB TRACTIVE UNITS INFORMATION TOTAL FEE OF £1450:-

VALKYRIE

[zb_anorak]

Those factory build sheets would be as good as any photograph, but who could afford to pay for them? Are there any rich men reading this thread, possibly having made their millions in the haulage industry, maybe even by operating Gardner-engined lorries?

[old_67]

^^^^^
Regards.John.

[robert1952]

Spud1960:

ramone:
Well although it looks pretty conclusive to me, the next comment from the doubters will be that although Guy offered the 8LXB there’s no actual proof that any were built

This is a point worth bearing in mind. The brochures of the '70 were often a statement of intent to provide, but if there was no take-up, those offers remained on paper only. Meanwhile, Valkerie’s efforts are to be highly commended. It is perfectly logical to collate evidence of a vehicle with a certain drive-line combination, but for there to be no photograph of one available. The evidence shown goes far beyond the hazy promises of brochures. As for those build-sheets: only one would be sufficient proof - no need to buy the lot! Robert

[5thwheel]

VALKYRIE:
Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 4x2 Tractive Units.TruckNetUK.Old Time Lorries. Monday,7th December,2015.

Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 4x2 Tractive Units:29 were actually built and operated by British road haulage companies.Objective facts

VALKYRIE:
Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 4x2 Tractive Units.TruckNetUk.Old Time Lorries. Thursday,8th October,2015.

First of all,thanks to all those people who have supported me during this debate

I have sent a further request for information to The British Commercial Vehicle Museum Archive Division,and a copy of this letter and Postal Order and Recorded Delivery documents are shown here:-

BCVM GUY BIG J LETTER TO BCVM PAGE 1 2-10-2015 :-

BCVM GUY BIG J LETTER TO BCVM PAGE 2 2-10-2015:-

BCVM GUY BIG J LETTER TO BCVM POSTAL ORDER AND RECORDED DELIVERY 2-10-2015:-

We will just have to wait and see what The British Commercial Vehicle Museum Archives can come up with

Meanwhile,I have sent an EMail to another museum in the hope that it can shed some light on Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Diesel Engine production,engine numbers,sales orders,engine allocations,etc. I await this museum’s reply.

And I might make contact with yet another museum for photocopies of some material…

Watch this space …

Welcome home,Bewick I hope that you had a good holiday.

You still have not told me on how to pronounce your name: Berwick? Bee-wick? BUICK? as in the famous American motorcar marque,or whatever
Please explain.Thanks

VALKYRIE

---

Spud1960 QUOTE :Well although it looks pretty conclusive to me, the next comment from the doubters will be that although Guy offered the 8LXB there’s no actual proof that any were built UNQUOTE.

Bewick QUOTE Correct!! UNQUOTE I’ve asked this question before (please see last but one line of above photocopied post) :how do you pronounce
Bewick? Bee-wick? BUICK? as in the famous American motorcar marque,or whatever

Well the doubting Thomases are wrong in reality. I wrote another letter to the Archive Division of The British Commercial Vehicle Museum,at
Leyland,BCVM Historian and Archivist,Gordon Whittaker,replied to me with the following information in his letter,please QV below for the reproduction.

I would have gladly payed a certain amount of money to get all known information on each and every one of the 29 Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 Diesel-Engined 4x2 Tractive Units built,but at a £50 information fee per each Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 4x2 Tractive Unit built,I really cannot afford it - £1450 in total

So,with respect,instead of doubting and/or debating ,whatever,I strongly suggest that you actually visit the archives of The British Commercial
Vehicle Museum,at King Street,Leyland,and look,see and read the authentic and genuine documents,etc,of Guy Motors in regard to the above
29 Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 4x2 Tractive Units built! I am not being clever when I say this:I am just being REAL

In regard to photographs of any of those 29 Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 4x2 Tractive Units built,Guy Motors had their own photograph and publicity
division in their independent,Jaguar and British Motor Holdings days. But after Guy became part of British Leyland,Leyland Motors’ own photograph
and publicity division mainly handled the photographs and publicity for the various marques of the British Leyland empire,but the emphasis was
on Leyland (especially Leyland) and to a lesser extent Scammell and AEC motor vehicles,at the expense of Guy,Thornycroft,Bristol,Daimler,Albion,etc. So there is no wonder why Guy-British Leyland publicity photographs of Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB 4x2
tractive units are rare - or if they exist at all

FURTHER RESEARCH:Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 4x2 Tractive Units.
I sent an in-depth EMail-Letter to the Anson Engine Museum a few weeks since,and had a conversation with the museum’s curator on the phone.
I am about to send a further letter - by post this time - to the Anson Engine Museum - complete with those Gardner 8LXB engine numbers
from the 29 Guy Big J Gardner 8LXB tractive unit list from the BCVM. The Anson Engine Museum MAY OR MAY NOT have details of the above Gardner 8LXB engines,since the museum’s Gardner engine records do not cover 1974 et seq.Unfortunately.

There are one or two other avenues of research that I am pursuing,but I am not building my hopes up.

I will try to keep you posted

Guy Big J4T Gardner 8LXB 240-250 4x2 Tractive Units:29 were actually built and operated by British road haulage companies.Objective facts

MOTORS.BCVM.LETTER FROM BCVM IN REGARD TO THE 29 GUY BIG J GARDNER 8LXB TRACTIVE UNITS INFORMATION TOTAL FEE OF £1450:-

VALKYRIE

Highly commendable Valkerie,those that know the beast existed do not need proof,and those disbelievers just don’t count,a further fine effort.

David

[bewick]

windrush:

Spud1960:
Well although it looks pretty conclusive to me, the next comment from the doubters will be that although Guy offered the 8LXB there’s no actual proof that any were built

Most probably true --------------------------------------------------apart from the 40 that S-O-M had of course…

Pete.

There appears to be a very serious arithmetical discrepancy between the 29 that were claimed to have been built and the “40” that S O M operated, Oh! and a serious lack of photographic evidence as well. There are too many anomalies as far as I’m concerned Cheers Bewick.

[carryfast]

Bewick:
There appears to be a very serious arithmetical discrepancy between the 29 that were claimed to have been built and the “40” that S O M operated, There are too many anomalies as far as I’m concerned Cheers Bewick.

Maybe everyone just thought there were more than there actually was because the 6 cylinder ones weren’t much slower.

[robert1952]

Carryfast:

Bewick:
There appears to be a very serious arithmetical discrepancy between the 29 that were claimed to have been built and the “40” that S O M operated, There are too many anomalies as far as I’m concerned Cheers Bewick.

Maybe everyone just thought there were more than there actually was because the 6 cylinder ones weren’t much slower.

[8lxbv8brian]

They only had 20 8lxb motors but they were double shifted all the time. -

[dave_docwra]

Carryfast:

Bewick:
There appears to be a very serious arithmetical discrepancy between the 29 that were claimed to have been built and the “40” that S O M operated, There are too many anomalies as far as I’m concerned Cheers Bewick.

Maybe everyone just thought there were more than there actually was because the 6 cylinder ones weren’t much slower.

The ERF I drove with a 240 in it done alright amongst the Irish lads on the A75 back in its day.

[gazsa401]

Carryfast denounces anything Gardner powered even though a lot of posters on here have ran and operated Gardner powered lorries with great success

[retired_old_fart]

Yes, gasza, but that was before the Crimean war!

[gazsa401]

I think I’m turning in to
Uncle Albert ROF !!!

[retired_old_fart]

I have to admit that I was spoilt- I came off a series of British lorries powered (!!!) by Gardners on to a three-year-old Volvo F88/290. After that I decided not to go back to anything with a Gardner engine and/or a nesting box glued to the back of the cab by Mr Jennings!

[flishflunk]

harry_gill:
hiya,
Well it looks like Trev H and me are truly the “last of the Mohicans”,
well I do remember when Guy’s had an Indian chiefs head on the
front and drove some with the aforementioned on the grille.
thanks harry long retired.

Talking of Guy’s Chiefs Head. This belongs to a mate of mine.

Ray

[windrush]

A now deceased workmate of mine had a Guy Indians Head nicely painted up and mounted on a pice of varnished wood, I saw it on his mantlepiece when I visited him about a week before he passed away. It came from a Guy that his old firm (H Loxley of Bonsall, Derbyshire) once ran. I am guessing that it stayed in the family after his death.

I don’t think that it came from a 8LXB engined one as it was a rigid tipper but then again it just might have done, we will probably never know for certain!

Pete.