hiya,
Seems so odd that a company who seemingly had the monoply of such a rare beast has not been able to produce any evidence of it’s authenticity surely someone must have taken a pic of such a rare beast, so few were seemingly produced that there must be proof of their existence.
thanks harry long retired.
harry_gill:
hiya,
Seems so odd that a company who seemingly had the monoply of such a rare beast has not been able to produce any evidence of it’s authenticity surely someone must have taken a pic of such a rare beast, so few were seemingly produced that there must be proof of their existence.
thanks harry long retired.
A chap called Paul Bruce who runs the Smiths website promised to email me two pics of Guy Big J’s with the 240,but I’m still waiting.
Cheers Dave.
Hiya …Well done Dave…Ive never seen or driven one.I,ve been known to move trucks from the auctions into truck sales yards around Leek and Stoke
so F89,s… 141,s… macks…whites…and transcons was a daily drive so i thought i might have come across a 8lxb guy but never did.
Its in B&W now and that says it all.
John
if you look on the fotki site there are two pictures of vehicles lined up at maddiston,both contain guys with 240 gardners,though they are taken from the front ,at this time the only guys we had at maddiston were all 240 gardners.
believe me i was there.
loader8:
if you look on the fotki site there are two pictures of vehicles lined up at maddiston,both contain guys with 240 gardners,though they are taken from the front ,at this time the only guys we had at maddiston were all 240 gardners.
believe me i was there.
Is this the pic loader8.
Thanks for confirming their existance loader8.My brother reckons Adam Thomson from Crawford drove a Big J 240.
loader8:
Hi folks,
i notice a lot of yes and no about guys with 240 gardners,well as someone who worked at maddiston from 1968 till the closure of som in january 1990,though we moved from maddiston to grangemouth depot round about 1986.
i can assure you that smith had many guys with 240 gardners,there were a-series erf,s with 240 gardners ,b-series erf,s again with 240 gardners,seddons with 240 gardners but best of all were the guys.
i believe the reason they are hard to find is that smith had a deal with leyland to buy all 240 gardner powered guys,and did so bar the last couple,1 i know went to plean precast at stirling and maybe another 1 or 2 went south.
1 way to tell its a 240 is the airbox was at the bottom of the cab and the stack ran the length of the cab,not like the ■■■■■■■ ones with the airbox half way up the cab.
at maddiston by 1975 i think all the motors were 240 gardners,a previous poster mentioned OWG352M,fleet number MD910,this was my own vehicle,driven by DAVY TWEEDIE on nightshift trunk and i shunted this,aged 21 till it was replaced by a b-series ERF with a 240 gardner XMS 607R,fleet number MD1083 or possibly MD1081 though these came nowhere near 910 for performance.the guy was capable of well over 70MPH.
i also think the reason they are hard to find is that they were bought by stewart melrose at bathgate who sent the engines to hong kong to power junks and are probably still working today.
hope this helps,i dont have any photos but i know what i drove.
Question Shunter No 8----How many Guy Big Js were based at Maddiston? I also would question your belief that SOM had “a deal” with Leyland to take all the 8LXBs that Guy produced! I dispute this because I do know that Atkinson,ERF,Foden, Seddon and to a lesser extent Scammell could never get enough Gardner engines so there is no way that the “poor relation” of Leyland Motors in Wolverhampton would be able to get any quantity of Gardners other than a trickle,and besides this Leyland did not like Gardner engines in any of their their Group chassis if it was at all avoidable.They built their own engines and hated having to pay a premium for the Gardner,they grudgingly fitted the ■■■■■■■ and RR but the cost of these two engines was close to their own manufacturing costs so as a financial excercise the ■■■■■■■ and the RR were acceptable.I was always under the distinct impression that the engine of choice in the SOM fleet was the ■■■■■■■ in its 180/205 and 220 form.Then you pop up and claim that SOM had 8LXB tractor units of various makes coming out their ears,which I find difficult to come to terms with although photgraphic evidence,if it could be produced,would help! By the way how many Seddons with the 8LXB might SOM have run because they are definitely a rarer “bird” than the Guy.Interesting though all the same! Bewick.
Dennisssssssssssss Harryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy are you watching.
hi all,
sorry to say dennis mate,but it seems the evidence is begining to get overwhelming!for what this is worth,i have never seen a guy big j with an eight cylinder gardner or know of any operator who did have one.all i do remember on this subject is after meeting an ex s.o.m. driver,from the ■■■■■■■ area? called john douglas, he told me that he drove one.regards andrew.
The mechanic:
Dennisssssssssssss Harryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy are you watching.
hiya,
Harry for one watching with wooden spoon at the ready for the wolfing down of humble pie.
thanks harry long retired.
Carryfast:
Bewick:
harry_gill:
hiya,
“Fitted 240 percy” not as manufactured i drove a Scammell Handyman fitted with a 180 Gardner but manufactured with the 600 Leyland i still say there was never a Big J off the assembly line with the big engine fitted the chassis was’nt produced to accept it would need a lot of modification, would it be worth it, only if you had a good spare engine to hand and then only then a small company or O/D might go to the trouble.
thanks harry long retired.You are a true believer “H” and possess the ability to see beyond the “smoke and mirrors” of the facade that is a Big J with an 8LXB engine!!! Go to the top of the class and give the pencils out! Dennis.
There’s one photo where it has’nt got the Gardner badge and then there’s one where it has and looking at the condition of the wagon in each photo it looks like the one where it has’nt was taken earlier
.So was it a case of being built originally with something else and then ‘fitted’ with the zb boat anchor later with the badge being stuck on the front as a finishing detail just to add insult to injury.
Now if only they’d have put a zb great big Detroit in it with the badge to match that would have been worth doing.
Hiya “Carryfast” Happy New Year to you! however I thought we’d got shot of you after the riots at Ford Open Nick!!! Did you get parole early after you got up all the other lags nostrils and they rioted!!! Bewick.
Now if only they’d have put a zb great big Detroit in it with the badge to match that would have been worth doing.
[/quote]
Hiya “Carryfast” Happy New Year to you! however I thought we’d got shot of you after the riots at Ford Open Nick!!! Did you get parole early after you got up all the other lags nostrils and they rioted!!! Bewick.
[/quote]
Dennis you have obviously not been following the debates on the professional drivers forum,where your pal Carryfast has been very vociferous,and to be fair taken a kicking and came back for more.He,like yourself sticks to his guns,even if he’s wrong .
Cheers Dave.
yes in that photo there are from left 2 bedford tm,s with detroit deisel engines 2 guys with 240 gardners 2 seddons both with 240 gardners as all the seddons we had did indeed have 240 gardner engines then i see there are 2 seddon atkinsons both again with 240 gardners,at maddiston we had no ■■■■■■■ vehicles.
as far as leyland go you must remember that in those days we had between 10 and 12 motors being put on the road every month and i dare say that would give you some purchasing power.
i have several ex som drivers living nearby who i see on a regular basis and they will all agree with me.
anyway if i knew that 35 years later someone would ask about 240 gardners in guys and seddons i would have taken pictures.
if i can get hold of any of the mechanics who worked on these motors i will get them to put a post on,there are still many of the old maddiston crowd still around,you just have to know where to look,and by the way i may have been a shunter then but i have been in every depot smith had in my time.
i,m sorry that i cant show you any photos showing the 240 engine but i can assure you they were there .
Dave the Renegade:
Now if only they’d have put a zb great big Detroit in it with the badge to match that would have been worth doing.
Hiya “Carryfast” Happy New Year to you! however I thought we’d got shot of you after the riots at Ford Open Nick!!! Did you get parole early after you got up all the other lags nostrils and they rioted!!! Bewick.
[/quote]
Dennis you have obviously not been following the debates on the professional drivers forum,where your pal Carryfast has been very vociferous,and to be fair taken a kicking and came back for more.He,like yourself sticks to his guns,even if he’s wrong .
Cheers Dave.
[/quote]
I think you’ve missed a word of the end of your post Dave “even if he’s wrong AS WELL”!!! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
Dave the Renegade:
Now if only they’d have put a zb great big Detroit in it with the badge to match that would have been worth doing.Hiya “Carryfast” Happy New Year to you! however I thought we’d got shot of you after the riots at Ford Open Nick!!! Did you get parole early after you got up all the other lags nostrils and they rioted!!! Bewick.
Dennis you have obviously not been following the debates on the professional drivers forum,where your pal Carryfast has been very vociferous,and to be fair taken a kicking and came back for more.He,like yourself sticks to his guns,even if he’s wrong .
Cheers Dave.
[/quote]
I think you’ve missed a word of the end of your post Dave “even if he’s wrong AS WELL”!!! Cheers Dennis.
[/quote]
Please refer to the post previous to yours Dennis 
.
Dave the Renegade:
Now if only they’d have put a zb great big Detroit in it with the badge to match that would have been worth doing.
Hiya “Carryfast” Happy New Year to you! however I thought we’d got shot of you after the riots at Ford Open Nick!!! Did you get parole early after you got up all the other lags nostrils and they rioted!!! Bewick.
[/quote]
Dennis you have obviously not been following the debates on the professional drivers forum,where your pal Carryfast has been very vociferous,and to be fair taken a kicking and came back for more.He,like yourself sticks to his guns,even if he’s wrong .
Cheers Dave.
[/quote]
If ever I’d have got a job on Bewick’s lot I’d have been the only driver driving a TM with a Detroit in it because he probably would have got fed up arguing .But if he would’nt change his mind I’d have got a job with that SOM lot instead because they obviously realised that I was right,as usual.
loader8:
yes in that photo there are from left 2 bedford tm,s with detroit deisel engines 2 guys with 240 gardners 2 seddons both with 240 gardners as all the seddons we had did indeed have 240 gardner engines then i see there are 2 seddon atkinsons both again with 240 gardners,at maddiston we had no ■■■■■■■ vehicles.
as far as leyland go you must remember that in those days we had between 10 and 12 motors being put on the road every month and i dare say that would give you some purchasing power.
i have several ex som drivers living nearby who i see on a regular basis and they will all agree with me.
anyway if i knew that 35 years later someone would ask about 240 gardners in guys and seddons i would have taken pictures.
if i can get hold of any of the mechanics who worked on these motors i will get them to put a post on,there are still many of the old maddiston crowd still around,you just have to know where to look,and by the way i may have been a shunter then but i have been in every depot smith had in my time
Nothing wrong with been a shunter “loader8” they were the “diamonds on the beach” as far as I was concerned,the un-sung heros of the “old” haulage world and if we at Bewick Transport ever got any grief (99% undeserved usually) from a driver about a “loose” sheet tie or similar they were threatened with a week on shunting! and believe me they would “button it” and ■■■■ off out the traffic office PDQ! as for all these 8LXBs at Maddiston I honestly find it incrediable and eagerly look forward to seeing further proof as and when its produced.So I will gladly mark this thread as “work in progress” Cheers Bewick.
Carryfast:
Dave the Renegade:
Now if only they’d have put a zb great big Detroit in it with the badge to match that would have been worth doing.Hiya “Carryfast” Happy New Year to you! however I thought we’d got shot of you after the riots at Ford Open Nick!!! Did you get parole early after you got up all the other lags nostrils and they rioted!!! Bewick.
Dennis you have obviously not been following the debates on the professional drivers forum,where your pal Carryfast has been very vociferous,and to be fair taken a kicking and came back for more.He,like yourself sticks to his guns,even if he’s wrong .
Cheers Dave.
[/quote]
If ever I’d have got a job on Bewick’s lot I’d have been the only driver driving a TM with a Detroit in it because he probably would have got fed up arguing .But if he would’nt change his mind I’d have got a job with that SOM lot instead because they obviously realised that I was right,as usual.
[/quote]
You stay on this forum Carryfast.Dennis can’t kick as hard as those professional drivers,he’s got cartilage trouble from kicking the rest of us on here .
Cheers Dave/
Carryfast:
Dave the Renegade:
Now if only they’d have put a zb great big Detroit in it with the badge to match that would have been worth doing.Hiya “Carryfast” Happy New Year to you! however I thought we’d got shot of you after the riots at Ford Open Nick!!! Did you get parole early after you got up all the other lags nostrils and they rioted!!! Bewick.
Dennis you have obviously not been following the debates on the professional drivers forum,where your pal Carryfast has been very vociferous,and to be fair taken a kicking and came back for more.He,like yourself sticks to his guns,even if he’s wrong .
Cheers Dave.
[/quote]
If ever I’d have got a job on Bewick’s lot I’d have been the only driver driving a TM with a Detroit in it because he probably would have got fed up arguing .But if he would’nt change his mind I’d have got a job with that SOM lot instead because they obviously realised that I was right,as usual.
[/quote]
Into the dug-outs lads “Carryfast” is back spraying his verbal Diarear ( ryhmes with hit and git!!) about again!! Bewick.
Bewick:
Carryfast:
Dave the Renegade:
Now if only they’d have put a zb great big Detroit in it with the badge to match that would have been worth doing.Hiya “Carryfast” Happy New Year to you! however I thought we’d got shot of you after the riots at Ford Open Nick!!! Did you get parole early after you got up all the other lags nostrils and they rioted!!! Bewick.
Dennis you have obviously not been following the debates on the professional drivers forum,where your pal Carryfast has been very vociferous,and to be fair taken a kicking and came back for more.He,like yourself sticks to his guns,even if he’s wrong
Cheers Dave.
If ever I’d have got a job on Bewick’s lot I’d have been the only driver driving a TM with a Detroit in it because he probably would have got fed up arguing .But if he would’nt change his mind I’d have got a job with that SOM lot instead because they obviously realised that I was right,as usual.
[/quote]
Into the dug-outs lads “Carryfast” is back spraying his verbal Diarear ( ryhmes with hit and git!!) about again!! Bewick.
[/quote]
Dennis don’t mix it with him,he’s a battle hardened veteran now,from scrapping with all those 44 ton hardcases on the professional forum 
.
Cheers Dave.