busteredwards:
gingo:
wots ure name / I worked for bp till 2 years ago
Who wants to know??..Did you buy a snack van by any chance?
I’d rather stay incognito on here matey, too many pals of Mr Rafferty down there!
no im not dougie m. im JR you figure it out.
weeto:
damoq:
merc0447:
In real life here what happens if Grangemouth closes? Does all the petrol and diesel for forecourts come up the M74? How much will that add to the price joe blogs pays on the street.Aside from Asda doc there is naff all in the way of employment in Grangemouth/Falkirk never mind for 800-1300 people!
A lot of fuel also arrives in Clydebank on a boat from abroad somewhere. Weather or not its capable of keeping the whole of Scotland’s petrol stations supplied is another thing though.
China possibly? From the Chinese petrochemical company which owns about 50% of the Grangemouth complex, could China end up supplying 70% of Scotland’s fuel? Or a large chunk of it, with the rest coming from south of the border.
Or could it be a ploy from the UK government to try and scupper the independence vote, by cutting the tax available from the fuel.
This was my 1st thought earlier today, part of the claim for Scottish Nationality was the money from the rigs…
Unite have just commited suicide.
There’s only one clear message that’s comer out of this that they as a union are finished.
They’ve managed to do Ed Miliband’s job for him.
Next conversation at a big depot will probably go something like this.
Unite rep “Me and the brothers have been discussing our T & C’s and want a 10% pay rise”.
Director “Actually comrade we’re thinking of a wage freeze, changing the pension and chopping that health care”
Unite Rep “I’m off to ballet the lads on strike action we’ll get what we want”
Director “We’ll shut the depot if we don’t get what we want”
Unite Rep “see it’s like this brothers in order to save all your jobs I’ve struck a deal”
Director “Hello is that the UK Goverment I need £100 Million in used noteds sent to my Villa in Cyprus”
Feel sympathy with the staff; no one likes to see their established T&C’s being chipped away at, but…
…If you are thinking of striking, make sure you can do it from a position of some power 
, and be prepared for the ultimate potential consequences - anyone remember the print unions trying to take on Murdoch in the 80’s?
If anyone wants to operate for the Union in a position of power, then why not have the entire membership go around the houses of the suits, and have it out with them - peacefully.
I bet most of them directors are not even in the country to be heckled! 
Seriously though - standing on picket lines or losing a days pay at a time achieves nothing, and hasn’t achieved anything since Callaghan stepped down.
“Direct action” should have been something the Unions grasped since then, but have not.
The government makes a law that says it’s ok for the rich to rob the poor but no longer vice-versa?
It all sounds a bit like “Peasant’s revolt Part Deux”. Richard II went back on everything promised on his big “Jam Tomorrow” deal that allowed the authorities to stand down the revolt, and use the interlude to get rid of ringleaders like Wat Tyler without further ado… A few years later, Bolingbroke decided to lock Richard up, and throw the key away. The second time a king had died in captivity… Even kings can come and go, whilst the peasantry remain revolting. 
The french revolution only happened once the peasants got the army on their side. They would never had achieved carting topnobs to the flashing blade en masse without the army’s support in the logistics of rounding all the buggers up… 
By saying “Yes” to the damned deal, Unite has effectively said to ALL employers that “YES you too can rob your staff’s’ pension pot, and use the deficit caused as an excuse to cut pay even further when that deficit is later uncovered…” 
This hasn’t been “sleepwalking into serfdom” this time. It’s more like “Eyes Wide Shut into a brick wall with spikes on it” 
The trade union movement was born out of similar situations to this; greedy employers imposing pay cuts, alterations to terms, take it or walk, etc, etc. Decades of struggle followed until many almost reached the conditions and pay that so many today complain about NOT having. We have, and are, just letting all that has gone before slip away because we have started to believe what we are being told that: “these are dinosaur conditions and we need to modernise and abolish all this red tape”.
We have allowed big business to become so powerful that it can dictate to Government, wheedling tax payers’ money into its coffers as ‘business development grants’ on the threat of closing down.
The sad thing is that those who could tell us what fools we are are long dead.
The company will get its way and the rest of us will slowly be returning to the days of tugging the forelock.
Silver_Surfer:
They’re nuts if they don’t deal with their firm, there’s no other jobs up there at all.Serves them right if they shut it, people don’t know what they’ve got till it’s gone, believe.
Drivel unfortunately, wages are only 1.5% of the costs at the plant. The main issue is the gas supply, but part of the deal will see the UK govt providing up to £1bn in loan guarantees to a company that is domiciled for tax in Switzerland.
Ineos specialise in gunboat diplomacy and threaten to close large facilities, they did the same with the chlorine plant in Runcorn. The plant has already been written down to value of £0 so there’s a loss of £400m to put against any profits made.
Mackem:
Silver_Surfer:
They’re nuts if they don’t deal with their firm, there’s no other jobs up there at all.Serves them right if they shut it, people don’t know what they’ve got till it’s gone, believe.
Drivel unfortunately, wages are only 1.5% of the costs at the plant. The main issue is the gas supply, but part of the deal will see the UK govt providing up to £1bn in loan guarantees to a company that is domiciled for tax in Switzerland.
Ineos specialise in gunboat diplomacy and threaten to close large facilities, they did the same with the chlorine plant in Runcorn. The plant has already been written down to value of £0 so there’s a loss of £400m to put against any profits made.
Are you sure about this?!
800 staff work on that plant
Lets say they earn, on average, £18,000. Not including pension contributions etc, that gives an annual wage bill of, very roughly, £14,400,000. Remember this is only the petrochemical plant, not the whole refinery.
If you’re saying this only represents 1.5% of the total annual running costs of the plant, the overall total costs would be… (Very roughly)
£1,418,400,000!!
One billion, four hundred and eighteen million, four hundred thousand!
Have you thought this through!
bazza123:
Mackem:
Silver_Surfer:
They’re nuts if they don’t deal with their firm, there’s no other jobs up there at all.Serves them right if they shut it, people don’t know what they’ve got till it’s gone, believe.
Drivel unfortunately, wages are only 1.5% of the costs at the plant. The main issue is the gas supply, but part of the deal will see the UK govt providing up to £1bn in loan guarantees to a company that is domiciled for tax in Switzerland.
Ineos specialise in gunboat diplomacy and threaten to close large facilities, they did the same with the chlorine plant in Runcorn. The plant has already been written down to value of £0 so there’s a loss of £400m to put against any profits made.
Are you sure about this?!
800 staff work on that plant
Lets say they earn, on average, £18,000. Not including pension contributions etc, that gives an annual wage bill of, very roughly, £14,400,000. Remember this is only the petrochemical plant, not the whole refinery.
If you’re saying this only represents 1.5% of the total annual running costs of the plant, the overall total costs would be… (Very roughly)
£1,418,400,000!!
One billion, four hundred and eighteen million, four hundred thousand!
Have you thought this through! [/quote
Yes, the main cost for the plant is the gas, not wages. The problem for Grangemouth is the price and availability of gas, hence it will stop getting it through the pipeline from the Fories Field and start shipping it in from the USA. The “wage dispute” is just a way of screwing more out of the staff. I doubt if Jim Ratcliffe the owner is taking a 25% cut , do you ?
You as a UK taxpayer will subsidise this by guarateeing loans for Ineos. The mugs on here who complain about the wages at Ineos should try taking a £10000 pay cut. They’re bosses will no doubt thank them for it…
Why have they decided to stop processing oil and rely on gas? The sooner we can get our reserves in the Falklands on tap the better surely?
According to BBC news it’s staying open now
bazza123:
Why have they decided to stop processing oil and rely on gas? The sooner we can get our reserves in the Falklands on tap the better surely?
They use both , but the gas is the main issue. Imports from the USA are currently $10 barrel cheaper, as the chemicals site has a capacity of 2m tonnes THAT is the saving. The loan guarantees will be used for the construction of a new gas import facility and plant.
According to its’ own figures Ineos turns over £2.86m per employee - £43bn turnover for 15000 employees.
The site was never going to close, but now the management just got their bonus.
Its to stay open, but it may pay the workers to reorganise their present union?
Drivel is it Makem? When will people understand these country’s are capitalist & completely open to market forces, no one owes them a living.
The plant WAS going to close with the loss of all the piece of ■■■■ 40k a year, 40 hour a week jobs, what is difficult to understand about that?
It’s only now the union have stopped waving their willy about and completely back tracked that Ineos have now decided to keep the plant open, it doesn’t matter how much money they are making its up to them to decide how much they want to pay the workers & it’s it’s up to the workers to decide if they want to work for that or take their chances elsewhere.
I’m not condoning slavery but these poor lambs at Grangemouth don’t know they’re born, the jobs up there outside of the plant are for half the money they’re on now!
Even if it was brinkmanship on Ineos’ part, I for one would not take the risk of losing a cushy well paid job to take my chances outside up there in this climate no flipping way, you may call the unions poker face brave up until the complete climb down, I call it stupid.
Drivel it is, but don’t complain about undercutting drivers wages when you condone that for someone else.
I don’t complain about under cutting drivers wages. I work for the rate I want, if I don’t get it, I move on till I do.