On time and on budget imagine what it would be if we built one !. A million lorries use the road tunnel a year and they reckon all that will go by train from December onwards as they want all freight moved through Swiss to go via rail. Impressive stuff…bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36423250
Yep , if we did it , it would be over budget or cancelled
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If all freight into swiss is going by rail…they are certainly going to use more trucks on their roads…but at least it will create more jobs for their own people. maybe thats where road transport is going to go.
truckyboy:
If all freight into swiss is going by rail…they are certainly going to use more trucks on their roads…but at least it will create more jobs for their own people. maybe thats where road transport is going to go.
I’m guessing that what they mean is removing both road tunnel and mountain pass heavy through traffic and putting the trucks on trains instead.From a driver’s point of view ( IE scenic mountain routes like the Simplon,not tunnels of any type,are not only safer but one of the pleasures of the job ) and bearing in mind the captive market that would give the Swiss rail operators,it will probably just shift more traffic through Germany and Austria using the Brenner.Which means the lose lose situation for the Swiss of massive investment together with more lost traffic revenues. 
Is it affordable to those countries sending their trucks through it though? If they can’t afford to pay their drivers our minimum wages whilst they are effectively full time drivers on the British mainland - then one would imagine them scrimping everywhere they can… “Take the high road - save the tunnel toll money. Park on Cobham slip road - save the MSA money. Hog all the laybys, pack right up the arse of your mate’s trailer so they can’t open his doors…”
Carryfast:
truckyboy:
If all freight into swiss is going by rail…they are certainly going to use more trucks on their roads…but at least it will create more jobs for their own people. maybe thats where road transport is going to go.I’m guessing that what they mean is removing both road tunnel and mountain pass heavy through traffic and putting the trucks on trains instead.From a driver’s point of view ( IE scenic mountain routes like the Simplon,not tunnels of any type,are not only safer but one of the pleasures of the job ) and bearing in mind the captive market that would give the Swiss rail operators,it will probably just shift more traffic through Germany and Austria using the Brenner.Which means the lose lose situation for the Swiss of massive investment together with more lost traffic revenues.
I shouldn’t think they’ll remove the existing road – I’ve just checked it out on Google Maps and it’s long (it’s not the old A3 at Hindhead) and serves a lot of towns on the route, and if there’s a crash in the tunnel or something else that causes closure or huge delays, then they will need that road. I’m guessing they’ll provide financial incentives for freight to use the tunnel and save the motorway for local traffic and tourists.
Carryfast:
I’m guessing that what they mean is removing both road tunnel and mountain pass heavy through traffic and putting the trucks on trains instead.
I imagine a lot of freight will start making the entire journey by rail, either in containers or unaccompanied trailers, using the tunnel. Ruhr Valley to Rome sort of thing.
IndigoJo:
I shouldn’t think they’ll remove the existing road – I’ve just checked it out on Google Maps and it’s long (it’s not the old A3 at Hindhead) and serves a lot of towns on the route, and if there’s a crash in the tunnel or something else that causes closure or huge delays, then they will need that road. I’m guessing they’ll provide financial incentives for freight to use the tunnel and save the motorway for local traffic and tourists.
I mean’t along the lines of trucks banned from the road tunnels and passes except for local access. 
Harry Monk:
Carryfast:
I’m guessing that what they mean is removing both road tunnel and mountain pass heavy through traffic and putting the trucks on trains instead.I imagine a lot of freight will start making the entire journey by rail, either in containers or unaccompanied trailers, using the tunnel. Ruhr Valley to Rome sort of thing.
That would obviously be part of their agenda of putting as many financial and logistical obstacles in the way of the road option as possible.The road transport industry is sleep walking into its own demise in that case by co operating with the plan.Rather than fighting it along the lines of either we do all the job or not at all and using whatever road options remain.Ironically the East Euros are probably more up for that fight than West Euro operators.Probably by necessity in the East Euro case being that the long haul international road freight sector now forms such a large part of their respective economies.
On that note chucking loads of East Euro truck drivers out of work to provide jobs for a few French/German/Swiss etc train drivers isn’t going to help Merkel’s plans.While no doubt what remains of the UK international sector will be like turkey’s voting for christmas in supporting the switch.
Well, actually I do agree that where it is more efficient and less environmentally unhealthy for goods to be moved by rail, then that’s the way they should be moved. Three hundred containers travelling a thousand or so miles by train makes more sense to me than 300 trucks on the road.
Harry Monk:
Well, actually I do agree that where it is more efficient and less environmentally unhealthy for goods to be moved by rail, then that’s the way they should be moved. Three hundred containers travelling a thousand or so miles by train makes more sense to me than 300 trucks on the road.
I’d doubt if that’s how the Polish and Bulgarians etc will see it given the choice between under cut the rail operators or join the East Euro dole queue.Although if rail is as ‘efficient’ as it makes out they’ll obviously have no problem with the East Euro competition in the ensuing fight for survival. 
IE ironically in that case the European road transport industry saved,from west euros acting like turkeys voting for christmas,by east euro rate cutting. 
Slightly off topic but didn’t a lot of trucks transit Germany by train years ago?
kr79:
Slightly off topic but didn’t a lot of trucks transit Germany by train years ago?
To be fair it’s been possible to transit trucks by rail from Germany through Swiss into Italy via the Lotschberg Simplon line since at least the 1990’s.No surprise that many,if not most, operators/drivers,still preferred the road route including the Simplon pass at least outside the winter months.I’d still guess that the Swiss have arguably shot themselves in the foot by losing road revenues to the Brenner route.In addition to creating over capacity in the road/rail sector in the form of the two competing rail routes.
On that note it will be interesting to see what happens in the form of all the competing financial interests of the east euro and what remains of the west euro international road transport sectors and road toll revenues associated with it v the European rail interests with even those themselves being subject to rail v rail competitive pressures. 
Huge numbers of accompanied trucks already cross Switzerland by rail, through choice. Get to Freiburg, get on train and land in Northern Italy one daily rest later. The Swiss have never liked trucks and their ultimate aim would be no trucks using Switzerland as a transit country by road. The scenic mountain passes Carryfast speaks of have mostly been closed to trucks a long time in places where a tunnel is an option. So the options are go through a tunnel in your truck or on a train basically
^^ seen them before ,they overtook me going towards Italy on my left hand side .
switchlogic:
Huge numbers of accompanied trucks already cross Switzerland by rail, through choice. Get to Freiburg, get on train and land in Northern Italy one daily rest later. The Swiss have never liked trucks and their ultimate aim would be no trucks using Switzerland as a transit country by road. The scenic mountain passes Carryfast speaks of have mostly been closed to trucks a long time in places where a tunnel is an option. So the options are go through a tunnel in your truck or on a train basically
As I said the Lotschberg/Simplon line has been used for decades.But to my knowledge there’s no truck bans on the Simplon at least yet and certainly not the last time I used it a few years ago.Nor obviously in these examples. 
google.co.uk/maps/@46.205097 … 312!8i6656
youtube.com/watch?v=wU6oIXq5qBo
While as I said if I was running to Italy and the Swiss removed the option of using any road pass.Then I’d go for the Brenner and they obviously lose all the road revenues between Germany and the Italian border.
On that note.As I said I’m obviously not alone in thinking that the dangers and boredom of using tunnels v driving through some of the best scenery in the world as part of the run seems like a no brainer.
youtube.com/watch?v=oCZl6ycZuBI
7.47-9.18
I think a lot of the Germans truck on train movements I was talking about was back in the days of permits and they were limited in number.
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Huge numbers of accompanied trucks already cross Switzerland by rail, through choice. Get to Freiburg, get on train and land in Northern Italy one daily rest later. The Swiss have never liked trucks and their ultimate aim would be no trucks using Switzerland as a transit country by road. The scenic mountain passes Carryfast speaks of have mostly been closed to trucks a long time in places where a tunnel is an option. So the options are go through a tunnel in your truck or on a train basicallyAs I said the Lotschberg/Simplon line has been used for decades.But to my knowledge there’s no truck bans on the Simplon at least yet and certainly not the last time I used it a few years ago.Nor obviously in these examples.
google.co.uk/maps/@46.205097 … 312!8i6656
youtube.com/watch?v=wU6oIXq5qBo
While as I said if I was running to Italy and the Swiss removed the option of using any road pass.Then I’d go for the Brenner and they obviously lose all the road revenues between Germany and the Italian border.
On that note.As I said I’m obviously not alone in thinking that the dangers and boredom of using tunnels v driving through some of the best scenery in the world as part of the run seems like a no brainer.
youtube.com/watch?v=oCZl6ycZuBI
7.47-9.18
All fairly academic since you never drove in Europe professionally. I’ll let you into a secret, it’s not a holiday, no boss worth his salt would be happy with you fannying about driving over mountain passes for the fun of it! Personally I don’t use Switzerland personally, nor the Brenner. The fastest way to Italy I find is through Frejus or Mont Blanc. It also avoids the over enthusiastic Austrian and German authorities and is far and away the most traffic free route. No doubt you’ll come back and tell me I’m wrong in a 3,000 word essay…
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Huge numbers of accompanied trucks already cross Switzerland by rail, through choice. Get to Freiburg, get on train and land in Northern Italy one daily rest later. The Swiss have never liked trucks and their ultimate aim would be no trucks using Switzerland as a transit country by road. The scenic mountain passes Carryfast speaks of have mostly been closed to trucks a long time in places where a tunnel is an option. So the options are go through a tunnel in your truck or on a train basicallyAs I said the Lotschberg/Simplon line has been used for decades.But to my knowledge there’s no truck bans on the Simplon at least yet and certainly not the last time I used it a few years ago.Nor obviously in these examples.
google.co.uk/maps/@46.205097 … 312!8i6656
youtube.com/watch?v=wU6oIXq5qBo
While as I said if I was running to Italy and the Swiss removed the option of using any road pass.Then I’d go for the Brenner and they obviously lose all the road revenues between Germany and the Italian border.
On that note.As I said I’m obviously not alone in thinking that the dangers and boredom of using tunnels v driving through some of the best scenery in the world as part of the run seems like a no brainer.
youtube.com/watch?v=oCZl6ycZuBI
7.47-9.18
All fairly academic since you never drove in Europe professionally. I’ll let you into a secret, it’s not a holiday, no boss worth his salt would be happy with you fannying about driving over mountain passes for the fun of it!
Oh wait all those ‘professionals’ in the videos who chose not to use the simple option of the Lotschberg/Simplon choosing to use the pass instead were actually all holiday makers and tourists driving trucks instead of a decent car.
Frejus Mont Blanc etc yes great tell all that to anyone who’s been caught in,or chose the road option in the case of any of the numerous examples of tunnel fires over the years.
Which leaves the obvious question as to how could your ‘professional’ opinion have been so wrong at least in the case of heavy commercial traffic choosing the Simplon pass v tunnel route.Surely it couldn’t be that the French tunnels are the only routes you know because that’s the only routes the boss would let you use.
Carryfast:
driving through some of the best scenery in the world as part of the run
Obviously he didn’t enjoy the scenery, he returned on the train.
