Got what he deserved?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

Harry Monk:

keebs26uk:
As above he got off very lightly, 2 years for killing someone anyone with a brain knows this is very light.
Just because his right foot was down to far his made a family’s life hell they are living a nightmare now because of this stupidity.
It doesn’t matter if he had people talking to him or must on the screen he was simply going to fast for the conditions. He may not of meant for this to happen but that’s life he did so has to be punished. If it was me that done this I would expect to go jail for at least 8-10 years

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

It states on there that if the mind ain’t guilty he is not fully guilty of the crime.

As stated just because he didn’t intend to do it why should that make it right ? Fair enough a full murder sentence of 30 years would be wrong but honestly 2 years for killing someone and destroying a family ? There’s got to be a in between

62

Wheel Nut:
Coach driver jailed for fatal M5 crash | The Independent | The Independent

walesonline.co.uk/news/wales … -31487031/

I find it helps to read more than one BBC report.

The problem with the weather was icy, it was the coldest December for many years, there was a lot of snow around in the previous week and immediately after the accident, obviously temperatures had risen slightly that weekend which means mist and fog, was it a solid blanket of fog or was it patchy?

The bus hit the lorry, it was the Sainsbury lorry that crossed the central reservation and killed Mr Vaughan.

For that reason I think the sentence was more than satisfactory. Two years inside, not suspended, 3 year ban and an extended retest, he has hardly got off lightly.

The big difference for a lorry driver is that he hasn’t got 81 expert witnesses sat behind him if it goes wrong.

I was a very bad accident in difficult conditions. and in answer to the original question. Yes I think he did.

Yes he has got off lightly, do you not get it■■? A man has lost his life but the coach driver still has his, should be locked up & never allowed on the road again as a driver. The coach driver may have to live with it for the rest of his life but the family of the man who died have lost a son, father, brother, uncle etc etc for ever. In a few years the coach driver gets out & carries on with his life as normal but the other family can’t. Why should he??

63

mike68:
Without offending any P.S.V drivers …the thing that concerns me the most is the way they seem to tailgate traffic in lane 2 even when the road conditions are poor.

OH, don’t worry, no offence caused. PLEASE tar us ALL with the same brush. I’m SURE you have never seen a lorry tailgating.

DON’T make assumptions and generalisations.

64

Own Account Driver:
It won’t be a popular view but I think 24 is too young for driving coaches full of people.

You are correct, you won’t be popular, coaching and bussing is cursed as being an ‘old mans’ job. It needs younger drivers to replace the many hundreds that will hang up their cap when they don’t want to do the DCPC next year. I have been driving maximum length 15M tri-axle coaches since I was 23, never had a crash or serious bump. A couple of scuffs but nothing major.

How old SHOULD we be before we can start driving them then?

65

davepenn54:
Think he got off very lightly for this

How do you KNOW? Are you him? Are you living his life? He will have to live with the fact he has been one of the major factors in the death of a human being. This will probably never leave him and will affect him for the rest of his life.
BUT
IF this doesn’t affect him he obviously isn’t right in the head.

66

Own Account Driver:
It won’t be a popular view but I think 24 is too young for driving coaches full of people. Most of your driving commonsense comes from the years on the road and near misses.

So HOW do we get experience without being allowed to get experience?

67

limeyphil:
why did he admit to it?
obviously had a [zb] brief.
he was driving at the legal limit for his vehicle, and there was slow moving traffic in front of him.
who’s fault was it really? if they didn’t travel so slow, then it wouldn’t have happened.

but if the guy wants to talk himself into 12 months behind bars, then that’s up to him.

■■■■■■■ idiot statement to make…

68

James Bateman2:
The cretin got off lightly,should have got 10 years and banned from driving for life.

I doubt he woke up in the morning and thought to himself “I think I’ll go out and kill someone today”, this was an accident that went horribly wrong but was not pre-meditated.

He has effectively got a life driving ban. Would you employ him with this on his record? Any cretin in an office can use google and will find his name on the internet for evermore.

69

daveb0789:
He’ll be back driving buses or coaches within a few years I’m sure.

I doubt it.

70

keebs26uk:
It states on there that if the mind ain’t guilty he is not fully guilty of the crime.

As stated just because he didn’t intend to do it why should that make it right ? Fair enough a full murder sentence of 30 years would be wrong but honestly 2 years for killing someone and destroying a family ? There’s got to be a in between

Yes, it depends on how much responsibility you carry in your job.

If a Tesco girl accidentally rings through a bag of aubergines as a bag of potatoes then she has made a minor mistake in her job. Her employer will have lost money but she won’t go to prison for it.

If a banker deliberately manipulates interest rates, earns a fortune from doing that and costs thousands of people their homes and businesses, then he won’t go to prison for that either.

You are a driver, this case involves a fellow driver, but because he has made a mistake at work similar to the two examples quoted above you think that he should be imprisoned for the best part of a decade.

Why, when he doesn’t earn a hundredth of the wages of the banker, and earns an hourly wage less than that of the Tesco girl?

71

Harry Monk:

keebs26uk:
It states on there that if the mind ain’t guilty he is not fully guilty of the crime.

As stated just because he didn’t intend to do it why should that make it right ? Fair enough a full murder sentence of 30 years would be wrong but honestly 2 years for killing someone and destroying a family ? There’s got to be a in between

Yes, it depends on how much responsibility you carry in your job.

If a Tesco girl accidentally rings through a bag of aubergines as a bag of potatoes then she has made a minor mistake in her job. Her employer will have lost money but she won’t go to prison for it.

If a banker deliberately manipulates interest rates, earns a fortune from doing that and costs thousands of people their homes and businesses, then he won’t go to prison for that either.

You are a driver, this case involves a fellow driver, but because he has made a mistake at work similar to the two examples quoted above you think that he should be imprisoned for the best part of a decade.

Why, when he doesn’t earn a hundredth of the wages of the banker, and earns an hourly wage less than that of the Tesco girl?

You’re talking out of your pipe Harry :unamused:

A mistake on the price of Aubergines doesn’t cost a life, driving in a completely irresponsible and reckless manor can cause the loss of many lives, luckily in this case it was only one, so the comparisons you make are ridiculous :unamused:

So the bloke is a fellow driver, are you saying ‘there but for the grace of God…’ :question:

I’m all for sticking together as professional drivers, but in cases like this, no [zb]ing way, idiots like this are part of the problem :bulb:

A professional driver should never have thought that it was acceptable to drive at a speed that was clearly far too fast for the prevailing conditions :bulb: If he wasn’t driving too fast, he wouldn’t have hit the Sainsbury’s lorry causing the chain of events that led to a man’s death, you cannot escape that fact :bulb:

There is no defence, there are no mitigating circumstances, the driver is in ultimate control of the vehicle, so when it all goes wrong and it’s avoidable, the driver should pay the price, he’s the one who killed the man :open_mouth:

72

newmercman:

Harry Monk:

keebs26uk:
It states on there that if the mind ain’t guilty he is not fully guilty of the crime.

As stated just because he didn’t intend to do it why should that make it right ? Fair enough a full murder sentence of 30 years would be wrong but honestly 2 years for killing someone and destroying a family ? There’s got to be a in between

Yes, it depends on how much responsibility you carry in your job.

If a Tesco girl accidentally rings through a bag of aubergines as a bag of potatoes then she has made a minor mistake in her job. Her employer will have lost money but she won’t go to prison for it.

If a banker deliberately manipulates interest rates, earns a fortune from doing that and costs thousands of people their homes and businesses, then he won’t go to prison for that either.

You are a driver, this case involves a fellow driver, but because he has made a mistake at work similar to the two examples quoted above you think that he should be imprisoned for the best part of a decade.

Why, when he doesn’t earn a hundredth of the wages of the banker, and earns an hourly wage less than that of the Tesco girl?

You’re talking out of your pipe Harry :unamused:

A mistake on the price of Aubergines doesn’t cost a life, driving in a completely irresponsible and reckless manor can cause the loss of many lives, luckily in this case it was only one, so the comparisons you make are ridiculous :unamused:

So the bloke is a fellow driver, are you saying ‘there but for the grace of God…’ :question:

I’m all for sticking together as professional drivers, but in cases like this, no [zb]ing way, idiots like this are part of the problem :bulb:

A professional driver should never have thought that it was acceptable to drive at a speed that was clearly far too fast for the prevailing conditions :bulb: If he wasn’t driving too fast, he wouldn’t have hit the Sainsbury’s lorry causing the chain of events that led to a man’s death, you cannot escape that fact :bulb:

There is no defence, there are no mitigating circumstances, the driver is in ultimate control of the vehicle, so when it all goes wrong and it’s avoidable, the driver should pay the price, he’s the one who killed the man :open_mouth:

+1

73

Recently a couple of lorry drivers have been imprisoned for causing death in an incident, but I don’t recall having such a debate about the sentence. Yes a coach driver has up to 70 lives in his hand but so does the truck who is being overtaken. A mistake by the truck driver can cause the coach to crash. Coach or lorry, they should be professional so I don’t see why there is so much discussion because he was a coach driver??

74

extrucker:
Recently a couple of lorry drivers have been imprisoned for causing death in an incident, but I don’t recall having such a debate about the sentence. Yes a coach driver has up to 70 lives in his hand but so does the truck who is being overtaken. A mistake by the truck driver can cause the coach to crash. Coach or lorry, they should be professional so I don’t see why there is so much discussion because he was a coach driver??

This is a truck drivers forum. What do you expect ?

75

daveb0789:

extrucker:
Recently a couple of lorry drivers have been imprisoned for causing death in an incident, but I don’t recall having such a debate about the sentence. Yes a coach driver has up to 70 lives in his hand but so does the truck who is being overtaken. A mistake by the truck driver can cause the coach to crash. Coach or lorry, they should be professional so I don’t see why there is so much discussion because he was a coach driver??

This is a truck drivers forum. What do you expect ?

Although it’s called trucknetuk.com, the purveyors of this website have chosen to call a section of the forums “UK professional drivers forums” which could perhaps include a paperboy on a moped, not that it seems to be restricted to people from these isles either:- a professional train driver gets some input in on this very thread!

Anyroad, the guy eventually admitted causing death by dangerous driving which, as a reminder, is when “the way they drive falls far below the minimum acceptable standard expected of a competent and careful driver;” subject to up to 14 years in prison, so perhaps he got off lightly. He drove “far below” minimum standards. I think he was stupidly reckless with the resulting carnage inevitable sooner or later if he carried on like that, but how “far below” was it? The results of his actions determined how dangerous his driving was and the relative lenience of his sentence shows how far below his standard was IMO. It unfortunately could easily happen to anyone (that someone is going a lot slower than you in this type of situation (or vice versa)):- you will always get nutters driving far too fast for the conditions. I wondered if he even gave the slightest thought to the fact he must have surely been the fastest large vehicle in that particular situation. We can only hope he, at least, has learned from it.

Which lane were the respective vehicles in, I wonder? For if the coach was doing 62MPH in the left hand lane in those conditions then that would seem to exacerbate the situation but similarly if the truck was doing 40MPH in the central lane then that might be construed risky as well; both not illegal per se but not without risk.

As for Mens rea, as per Harry’s link, in English law:- “Recklessness: the actor foresees that particular consequences may occur and proceeds with the given conduct, not caring whether those consequences actually occur or not”.

76

Don’t take any notice of the train driver. They usually talk out of their backsides ! :astonished: