red7jase:
I know all the rules about it but a driver last week told me that we do not have to do it as it is at the drivers discression to use. He isisted an employer can only ask you to work 13hrs the remaining 2 are to be used as a driver aid to suit his/her needs.
Anyone else know this■■?
Just my opinion but here goes.
Now taking into account an employers legal duty to manage fatigue in the workplace (Source HSE website, Emplyment Law Act somewhere and common sense) it would appear logical that working a 15 hour day is down to driver discretion.
But there is no hard and fast rule im aware of that states this diffinitevly, so an employer can ask you to be at work for more than 13 hours.
Now then working and being at work are two different beasts entirely and then one must factor in individual thresholds not all of which your employer will be aware of so responsibility must be taken from the driver to say ‘sorry boss im to tired and need to park up’. The factors causing this tiredness are so mixed from worktype, traffic, ones own limits on that day etc.
So in conclusion an employer would be on very shaky ground trying to force an employee to work 15 hours, especially if said employee had made their employer aware of fatigue issues at the time. But legal smegal theres nothing to stop them asking.
You dont have to be a hero to be able to cope on 5-6 hours sleep, although personally I like 6-7 with 10-11 when at home with the wife on weekends especially if theres a happy ending in the morning.
So know your limits and work within them, except Fridays obviousy. Transport is a fluid industry, things change, timings go out the window, theres illusions of pressure put on drivers but at the end of the day its bedtime, when that end occurs is up to you if fatigue is becoming a factor with legal backup to boot.
Dipper_Dave:
You dont have to be a hero to be able to cope on 5-6 hours sleep
So know your limits and work within them
If not hero then fool.For thinking that anyone has any knowledge,let alone control,over if/when that biological compensatory reflex sleep switch gets activated.Or that just 5-6 hours sleep between two typical shifts in the industry isn’t an unacceptable risk in that regard.
Dipper_Dave:
You dont have to be a hero to be able to cope on 5-6 hours sleep
So know your limits and work within them
If not hero then fool.For thinking that anyone has any knowledge,let alone control,over if/when that biological compensatory reflex sleep switch gets activated.Or that just 5-6 hours sleep between two typical shifts in the industry isn’t an unacceptable risk in that regard.
Didn’t Maggie only have 4 hours kip a night and she ran the country?
Oh you didn’t
I was just about to compile data from the NSF to compare with my own irrefutable logic to demonstrate how 5-6 hours sleep may be appropriate for limited periods for those special ones amongst us.
Evil8Beezle:
Didn’t Maggie only have 4 hours kip a night and she ran the country?
Fuse lit!
To be fair in her case there wasn’t much difference between alert awake idiot v half asleep zombie and she was only going to crash the country’s economy not a truck into anyone.
Good job she saved the country then by not only weakening union power but also empowering the working class to own their own home, all that on only 4hours sleepy time, incredible woman.
Dipper_Dave:
Good job she saved the country then by not only weakening union power but also empowering the working class to own their own home, all that on only 4hours sleepy time, incredible woman.
What could possibly go wrong.Yeah right weakening union power to create a dependent under class looking for a cheap flogged off council house.
Dipper_Dave:
You dont have to be a hero to be able to cope on 5-6 hours sleep
So know your limits and work within them
If not hero then fool.For thinking that anyone has any knowledge,let alone control,over if/when that biological compensatory reflex sleep switch gets activated.Or that just 5-6 hours sleep between two typical shifts in the industry isn’t an unacceptable risk in that regard.
You have a very strange view on this. Do you sleep different amounts each night then? I have 12+ hours daily rest most days but generally find I sleep for about 6 hours of it. That’s not me being a hero, that’s me just doing what comes naturally. I also never nap during the day, it leaves me groggy and I never feel the need to. I used to sleep much more but seem to need less these days. Everyone I know needs different amounts of sleep. You talk about a switch, are you a narcoleptic Carry old fruit because I’ve never experienced this ‘sleep switch’ knocking me out like you imply.
Carryfast:
If not hero then fool.For thinking that anyone has any knowledge,let alone control,over if/when that biological compensatory reflex sleep switch gets activated.Or that just 5-6 hours sleep between two typical shifts in the industry isn’t an unacceptable risk in that regard.
You have a very strange view on this. Do you sleep different amounts each night then? I have 12+ hours daily rest most days but generally find I sleep for about 6 hours of it. That’s not me being a hero, that’s me just doing what comes naturally. I also never nap during the day, it leaves me groggy and I never feel the need to. I used to sleep much more but seem to need less these days. Everyone I know needs different amounts of sleep. You talk about a switch, are you a narcoleptic Carry old fruit because I’ve never experienced this ‘sleep switch’ knocking me out like you imply.
Firstly I don’t think narcoleptic is the same thing as people ‘thinking’ that 5 or 6 hours sleep between typical shifts in the industry are sustainable generally.IE the ‘effects’ in either case might be similar but not the cause.One being the result of an abnormality and one being a totally natural biological reaction.While,unlike narcolepsy,‘switch’ in this case can obviously vary from anything from just a slowing of reaction times,to micro sleep,or more.On that note no I don’t sleep different amounts but I do know from experience that going to bed at around midnight and getting up at stupid o clock like 5 am the following morning at the start of a long road trip for example is a dangerous mugs game especially at autobahn type speeds.That isn’t narcolepsy.You’ll also find that most of the population aren’t running their lives to that similar type of sleep pattern.So what’s so special about truck drivers especially considering the potential consequences of the zb hitting the fan in that regard if/when biology wins out over will power.
Arent we all different? Some people may like 6 hours, some may like 9. You cannot simply say you have to have ■■■ amount of sleep per night otherwise you will fall asleep at work.
As for the op, if you dont want to do a 15hr shift dont, if your boss doesnt like that then go find a new job where they dont do 15hr shifts. Why people put up with stuff they dont like, or do stuff they dont want is beyond me.
Well fancy that, another subject Carryfast thinks he’s an expert in.
So your whole reasoning for this is the fact that you, a man who’s been retired the best part of two decades, couldn’t function on 5/6 hours sleep. You do know everyone is different don’t you? You’ll find most of the population has way less sleep than you. Maybe if you had a reason to get up you’d surprise yourself and find you don’t need as much sleep as you think. I’ve been functioning fine on the same sleep pattern for a good few years now to no ill effect. But thanks for your concern
Concretejim:
Arent we all different? Some people may like 6 hours, some may like 9. You cannot simply say you have to have ■■■ amount of sleep per night otherwise you will fall asleep at work.
As for the op, if you dont want to do a 15hr shift dont, if your boss doesnt like that then go find a new job where they dont do 15hr shifts. Why people put up with stuff they dont like, or do stuff they dont want is beyond me.
Firstly it certainly is a case of the ‘risks’ of ‘anyone’ not being at their full alert best with 6 hours sleep between shifts not the heroes would like to think in that regard.
The problem being that EU hours regs and the heroes ( mugs ) obviously make it more difficult for those with more sense to say no.
All this heroes b.s based on nothing more than ‘I can’t survive on 6 hours therefore no one can’…I know this one dimensional thinking is one of your trademarks but it is a bit grating. I’m starting to see why you never got that dream job driving round Europe in the 80s now, you sleep too much
switchlogic:
Well fancy that, another subject Carryfast thinks he’s an expert in.
You’ll find most of the population has way less sleep than you. Maybe if you had a reason to get up you’d surprise yourself and find you don’t need as much sleep as you think. I’ve been functioning fine on the same sleep pattern for a good few years now to no ill effect. But thanks for your concern
You mean in your world the general population have only 9 hours off between shifts. Like the 10-11 pm and 4-5 am London peak commuter periods.
switchlogic:
Well fancy that, another subject Carryfast thinks he’s an expert in.
You’ll find most of the population has way less sleep than you. Maybe if you had a reason to get up you’d surprise yourself and find you don’t need as much sleep as you think. I’ve been functioning fine on the same sleep pattern for a good few years now to no ill effect. But thanks for your concern
You mean in your world the general population have only 9 hours off between shifts. Like the 10-11 pm and 4-5 am London peak commuter periods.
No, I mean in the real world everyone survives on wide and varied amounts of sleep. As explained previously I actually pointed out that in my world I have over 12 hours off every day, 15 hours in fact today, and that my sleep pattern is the routine that I’ve got into through choice, not necessity. But that won’t fit your ‘heroes’ thinking will it so you discarded that point.
So, how long is the average nights sleep in Chez Carryfast?
switchlogic:
All this heroes b.s based on nothing more than ‘I can’t survive on 6 hours therefore no one can’…I know this one dimensional thinking is one of your trademarks but it is a bit grating. I’m starting to see why you never got that dream job driving round Europe in the 80s now, you sleep too much
To be fair I was never actually asked how little sleep I could manage with when applying for international jobs.But if I was you can bet that I’d have told them to zb off first before they showed me the door.
As for the 5-6 hours sleep between shifts.As I said it’s all about the idea in general of drivers needing to be as alert as possible and thereby protecting everyone from the muppets who think that they are immune from the same biology as everyone else.As it stands the EU drivers hours regs being unfit for purpose in that regard.
switchlogic:
So, how long is the average nights sleep in Chez Carryfast?[/quote
Seriously as in your case sleep patterns generally seem to be a case of what will power has created through necessity. On that note I’ve rarely been asked or needed to work more than a 12 hour shift other than exceptional circumstances and told the guvnor to shove it on the only job I can remember where he tried.Which by definition means no way would I do any job involving less than around 8 hours sleep between shifts especially if it involves driving anything or operating machinery.
switchlogic:
Well fancy that, another subject Carryfast thinks he’s an expert in.
You’ll find most of the population has way less sleep than you. Maybe if you had a reason to get up you’d surprise yourself and find you don’t need as much sleep as you think. I’ve been functioning fine on the same sleep pattern for a good few years now to no ill effect. But thanks for your concern
You mean in your world the general population have only 9 hours off between shifts. Like the 10-11 pm and 4-5 am London peak commuter periods.
Indeed! There are truly none so blind as will not see, that trucking has the most ludicrous and excessive working hours known to humankind. It doesn’t even do justice to call the conditions Dickensian! People were worked less and had more family life in the concentration camps! The bosses have just figured that it’s actually cheaper to fling some fools a below-average hourly rate to drop their pants, than it would be to actually put up the barbed wire to keep drivers as slaves.
Rjan:
People were worked less and had more family life in the concentration camps! The bosses have just figured that it’s actually cheaper to fling some fools a below-average hourly rate to drop their pants, than it would be to actually put up the barbed wire to keep drivers as slaves.
On that note I’ve rarely been asked or needed to work more than a 12 hour shift other than exceptional circumstances and told the guvnor to shove it on the only job I can remember where he tried.Which by definition means no way would I do any job involving less than around 8 hours sleep between shifts especially if it involves driving anything or operating machinery.