karl2878:
That looks a nice setup. I do like some yank cabovers and often thinking why they didn’t take off better than they did around europe. Excellent pic tho…,…
Understandable protectionist thinking amongst the majority of the Euro customer base in which German buyers generally bought German etc etc and the EU.The issue of EU type approval being the final nail.
I think it had everything to do with type approval. It cost an arm and a leg to import and convert Yankee hardware into safe European trucks - brakes, electrics and everything. And Euro trucks have been way more comfortable and ergonimically suitable for decades as far as I can tell. I’m sure Newmercman could give an accurate account. Robert
karl2878:
That looks a nice setup. I do like some yank cabovers and often thinking why they didn’t take off better than they did around europe. Excellent pic tho…,…
Understandable protectionist thinking amongst the majority of the Euro customer base in which German buyers generally bought German etc etc and the EU.The issue of EU type approval being the final nail.
I think it had everything to do with type approval. It cost an arm and a leg to import and convert Yankee hardware into safe European trucks - brakes, electrics and everything. And Euro trucks have been way more comfortable and ergonimically suitable for decades as far as I can tell. I’m sure Newmercman could give an accurate account. Robert
I’d guess the issue of customer loyalty across Europe to the ‘home product’ arguably at least played a big part in the numbers question v US imports.While absolutely the type approval issue just finished off the small remaining committed US import market sector.
As for the argument between ‘uncomfortable American junk’ v supposedly ‘superior’ Euro boxes that will always be a subjective question.On that note it is the New Zealand market that historically shows where the US product stands.In a place where there is no real customer loyalty to any major ‘home’ truck manufacturing industry and/or where there are no EU type protectionist measures concerning ‘type approval’ that effectively count out US products.IE on an objective comparison basis US trucks have ( rightly ) always been a formidable competitor to their Euro counterparts given the right market conditions.While,as I’ve said elsewhere,I think that setting up a UK Astro production facility at Bedford instead of going to all the trouble of the TM programme might arguably have been a less costly idea for GM.Although as usual the UK government’s over enthusiastic commitment to the EU would probably have sunk the idea before it got off the ground.As opposed to using a UK veto/opt out over the EU type approval system.
Karl 2878, to answer your question with facts, (rather than wishful thinking).
The majority of US spec 6x4 tractor units would not couple legally in the UK. In Europe certain specific models could be adapted quite well. But everyone who imported metal had a responsibility to ensure that the vehicle met the (individual) countries legislation where the importer was based.
The Benelux countries had a long experience with US products, as had France. In both markets there had been recognised importers for certain US products, and in France Mack had both absorbed a French manufacturer, (Bernard), having had a strong presence in the construction market for many years.
Pre October 1982, any import in to the UK could be passed as road legal, providing that the braking system, lights, etc were modified to pass a UK Test criteria. Post this date the vehicle had to meet certain type approval criteria. There were importers who "blagged " the system…not good for the poor soul whose money was invested in the vehicle! Or if the gvw was outside construction and use criteria, then providing the braking modifications were carried out, then it could be run on STGO work. A number were.
Personally I imported a number of 6x4 units from various builders, some stayed in the UK, a lot went into Europe. As the UK powers became more stringent in application of type approval I used to import into Le Havre, register, and approve in France, then if necessary bring back to the UK for sale, but most stayed in Europe. In fact I still have the documentation for a “personal” type approval on a specific driveline US model, granted through the same French legislation as utilised by vehicle manufacturers for Rally car Specials…It must surely be out of date by now!
But if you had to use a US vehicle every day, the appalling ergonomics, bone crushing ride…well you would not want to drive it!
The fascination of all those gauges, button backed naugahyde upholstery, soon dim when even an average factory becomes a 40 shunt manouever to get in, and the blind spots on all the cab overs are quite dramatic…and d`ont even speculate about those on conventionals.
But in the main they are fairly reliable…but so is a similar driveline in a UK chassis…and most can be recycled by use of a Glider kit…that concept fell well foul of European, and in particular British legislation…what age does a Glider kit have as its year of origin…everybody went home to think about that one!!
So really in volume terms the US iron never had real prospects in Europe, but quite a few were, and are still run, and the people that own them stick with them, and love `em…and why not, there is far to little individuality around…
And if I`m honest, I have a real soft spot for them, (from the 40s to the 90s), but that is an age thing…and there is nothing so ego boosting as a double overdrive 13 speed, with a 6 speed spicer behind it, and a 450 V8 CAT, or a massive KTA ■■■■■■■ up front…and an environment surrounded by acres of Ox Blood button back naugahyde…and the ,(vwey wide, with only gentle curves, and no nasty dips), road in front of you…
My goodness, I`m a geriatric cowboy…and the Stetson will keep the rain off my unprotected cranium…Now American windscreen wipers…
Hey saviem thanks makes sense now and what you said about company’s sticking with them also makes sense use to see frediric’s kw’s all over the place they looked the b!!!is and sounded even better cheers saviem and rob. .k.
Saviem:
But if you had to use a US vehicle every day, the bone crushing ride…well you would not want to drive it!
To be fair that could be said about most trucks unless they are specced properly with decent suspension seats.Assuming that’s all there its difficult to understand the issue.
Don’t diss my Astro! It was a very comfortable truck to drive. The suspension seat worked well,my heater was great, the aircon excellent and the bunk wider than most standard Europeans.
The only downside was that the Allison gearbox had some kind of high tension spring which worked against the accelerator pedal. Keeping it on the floor gave me serious varicose veins in my right leg!
As mentioned by Robert on page 1 this company used to come through Poole every now and then. I wonder how
many of the GMC mark they operated as this is a differewnt reg to the earlier pics. (Sorry about quality but tried to scan from a book)
Tidy looking fleet,does anyone know how many lorries they used to run and are they still operating ?
DEANB, I will try to answer your question, but the reply must be as complex as the Family Leferbvre`s transport interests!
All the vehicles, with the exception of their rental, (location), operation shared the same red and white livery. All the lettering was to their corporate style.
Headquarters were at Aix Noulette, just west of Lens, except for the rental operation, (Locartois Frigo), based in Noeux les Mines, (north west of Lens).
The main Holding Company was Trans Artois Frigo, based at Zal de L`epinette , Aix Noulette. The company was run by Rene Lefeebvre, and his wife. Jacques Lefebvre was in charge of the commercial side.
The TAF empire included,
EFTL, (Entrepot Frigorifique, the warehouse side).
TAFNOR, the dry freight operation,
LOCARTOIS Frigo, the rental side.
EUROPAL Frigo.
TAFOPAL, based at Bolougne sur mer,
TAF-Bretagne, based at Maure de Bretagne,
TAF Sud,Languedoc Roussilon, and TAF International, School Road Nuneaton…their “London” office.
with Rene, the fleet stood at 60 Astro`s, 6x4s, 80 fridge boxes, cannot remember the Savoyard quantity, and on rental they had around 100 units.
I got on with them very well, although they had a certain reputation…everyone went like rockets
and having driven one of their outfits, I can see why. Everything about the vehicle, in terms of falling to hand for the driver, was well thought out. In particular the gearchange linkage, (a 13 speed Fuller, on the one I drove),was as near perfect in terms of short throw, and logical gate springing as any I have ever experienced. (As was the change on Bedfords TM, either Spicer, or Fuller)…Corporate thinking?
Jazzandy has probably driven further, and lived in an Astro than anybody on here, and I would not disagree with his comments regarding the vehicle. Pity that his did not have a Fuller in it!
If you look at Astro`s in general their wb seems to be shorter than the average US product, (as does that on Macks). But I have to say that I was well impressed with the one that I drove…and with the Sunday lunch that I had just eaten!!!
Oh, one final note, Leferbvre`s business interests, and various trading companies, often meant that you would see similar trading names, (based on TAF, or Noulette, on the sides of their trailers!!! Transneoux springs to mind!
Thanks for that reply Saviem ,much appreciated. They were a serious company with just that part having 60 astros.
The TAF empire in itself must have been huge as they were also running alot of lorries.
What a excellent thread, and photographs ,it is like studying a university course, so much knowledge,
JAZZANDY what a picture.the three people look as if they are like the ,motion-less people who stand on boxes for cash.
The camels must be waiting for a change over, and the donkeys on day work.
