Get a job stacking shelves then

[war1974]

BILL1961:

Harry Monk:

war1974:
why should people have to work 50-60 hours per week to earn a decent wage when it is a skilled job?

It’s not a skilled job, a skilled job is something you study for over the course of several years, not a fortnight.

[zb]!
Driving an HGV in a professional manner IS a skill, and that skill is developed over time. Thats why you see newly qualified drivers shunting back and forth to get on a loading bay, yet seasoned drivers reverse onto a bay first go.

harry its not often i disagree with you but having witnessed so many ‘drivers’ who cant drive for toffee it is a skilled job! not everyone can do it, and while fellow drivers believe a monkey can be trained it will never be recognised for the job it is. 1000’s of £’s worth of goods in the back 1000’s of £’s worth of kit idiots who have little or no idea what a truck can or cant do (but know everything about sodding leather clad power rangers on their crotch rockets thanks to endless adverts). put 10 people in a hgv maybe 5 will pass the test you will be lucky if 1 makes a decent driver!

[daveb0789]

Its also about barriers to entry and experience. It’s relatively easy to get a bus/coach or truck drivers licence but a lot harder to become an air traffic controller or a pilot (for example) due to the massive costs and tough exams that have to be passed.

Then again there is something to be said about experience. A newly passed HGV + Hazchem driver is unlikely to land a 40k job driving petrol tankers.

[stevieboy308]

jamdoms:

stevieboy308:

jamdoms:

stevieboy308:
[Someone offers a wage to do a job, either someone accepts it or not, the offer will increase untill someone takes the offer or dissapear because it has become unprofitable. Where’s the exploitation?

We/them are being exploited:
Do you think wages for drivers would be at the rate they are now if it was not for the influx of labour from the old soviet block countries?
Have the wages increased?
In most cases they have stagnated or reversed.
Wage freeze or lower wages offered than several years ago is exploitation in my mind,or is that an example of benevolence?
Or are you rubbing yours hands in anticipation of the cracking Christmas bonus you going to give.
If it walks like a duck…

So because there is a wage freeze or lower wages being offered than previous years, then in your mind that is exploitation.

I never realised I exploited my solicitor 3 years ago when I bought my house, due to supply and demand he was charging half as much as he had previously charged. I won’t even tell you how much cheaper I bought the house for than it was sold for 18 months previous! Supply and demand is always changing, sometimes you’re up, sometimes you’re down.

Of course the influx of eastern European workers has had an impact of wages, anything that effects the supply demand ratio will do. But that’s a political point and not down to individual companies or the workers themselves, but don’t forget that plenty of people have left these shore to work abroad.

Are you confusing me with someone else regaurding the Christmas bonus or just making assumptions?
[/quote

Yes for me that is exploitation.
There is no doubt the labour market is flooded in this country but that amazingly has been accommodated at the expense of the indigenous workers,
not the fault of the people who have come here to work like you suggest its the making of politicians but I’m not naive to think that business and politics don’t go hand in glove, and between them they have created and allowed an endless supply of labour to enter and work here, now don’t tell me in part that was not done to drive down wages and conditions.
Now we have a recession a perfect storm of less jobs more workers equals lower wages and a race to the bottom, I know this, you know this so no doubt do the employers and this is where the exploitation comes in because not all businesses are doing bad out of this situation and some on the backs of this storm are posting record profits yet they are cutting wages or freezing them.
A free maket economy I can hear you shouting, but I say a free market economy is not a fair economy and is based on exploitation.
What concerns me is where the bottom is in this race.
The above is only my opinion I could be right or wrong but it is how I see things.

You get a promotion at work, 5 grand pa extra, how much more do you pay the window cleaner?

You seem to be making out the “exploitation” only works one way, it doesn’t. In a year when profits fall the wages might have to go up to retain staff.

[metrorider]

If Brits stopped moaning and just got on with the job, then perhaps the work force in this country would be a more happier and productive bunch.
Mind you, if we stopped moaning as a nation then we’d probably end up moaning that there was nothing to moan about!

[merc0447]

Dont know where you’re getting british lorry drivers are lazy, we work some of the highest hour weeks in the world never mind the uk, it was on some graph that was on switchlogic twitter.

You are tarring British folk with the kevin and perry brush of the snotty face teenager just left school. British people are grafters make no mistake about that, but we expect a good standard of living to go with it.

[rambo19]

The majority of the british workforce has been their own worst enemy over the years.

Amen to that…

As my grandad used to say “the working man is his own worst enemy”

[harry_monk]

wildfire:
we are all professional drivers, we do the job for gain so by that rule its a profession, so how come some just don’t see themselves as professional then

pro·fes·sion·al
   [pruh-fesh-uh-nl] Show IPA

adjective
1.
following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.

of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies. driver cpc now!!!

As I’ve said before, you could bake dog turds and sell them as ornaments. If that is what you do for a living, you are a professional dog turd baker.

[wheel_nut]

wildfire:
we are all professional drivers, we do the job for gain so by that rule its a profession, so how come some just don’t see themselves as professional then

pro·fes·sion·al
   [pruh-fesh-uh-nl] Show IPA

adjective
1.
following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.

of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies. driver cpc now!!!

appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.

engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.

following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.

I prefer to use the word vocational rather than professional. To be a long distance lorry driver is a vocation, not a profession. It doesn’t task your mind like being a solicitor or a doctor, or even an estate agent.

I agree with Marsdens original post and read so many posts on here that suggest many do not want to work. They want time off but complain if another driver uses the vehicle. Many blame that other driver for damage, dirt, diesel and delays.

I started driving at the end of the good times in my opinion, the clearing houses were beginning to struggle because hauliers had started using joined up thinking, instead of queuing on the dock waiting for a sharp suited agent, they had already organised a back load or instructed the driver to call in at Joe Bloggs when you are empty.

These clearing houses became empty and boarded up, unfortunately many of the clearing agents got in on the agency lark and it has that which drove down rates and job security. I was fortunate that the agencies were few and far between and I haven’t really been affected by them, certainly never worked for one. Companies I have mainly worked for have always had an accessible boss, not a clown in an accountants suit. They have bought a lorry because it was a good deal, not because some whiz kid had convinced another whiz kid over a jug of Pimms.

Haulage is not rocket science, to move the lorry you need fuel and a driver, to pay for that you need a profit from the load.

The load you are carrying costs a fixed amount and everyone wants it in their shop, the shop can only sell it to if it is cheap, yet the fuel cost is fixed.

The companies making the big profits are the employment agencies and the multinationals who can make each vehicle turn a profit of £20 per day, 800 lorries will give you £5.8M at the end of the year. Joe Bloggs on the other hand will struggle to survive on his £123k from 17 trucks. I know who I would sooner get out of bed for though!

The 50 something lorry driver is working because he is unskilled, enjoyed the open road and a vision of freedom, the 25 year old wants to keep up with Mr Jones and his platinum pension.

Harry Monk mentioned the unions, they never did me any favours, but the companies who had union representation were in general the ones who have 800 lorries, especially the highly paid specialised drivers on tankers.

Where do you want to work? Rentokil bus service, DHL. BET. Wincanton etc.

[truckulent]

BILL1961:

Harry Monk:

war1974:
why should people have to work 50-60 hours per week to earn a decent wage when it is a skilled job?

It’s not a skilled job, a skilled job is something you study for over the course of several years, not a fortnight.

[zb]!
Driving an HGV in a professional manner IS a skill, and that skill is developed over time. Thats why you see newly qualified drivers shunting back and forth to get on a loading bay, yet seasoned drivers reverse onto a bay first go.

And you also see many experienced drivers having 3 or 4 shunts! Fact is that driving an LGV is a skill yes. But it is an easy skill to learn and become proficient at relative to other professions.

[shytalk]

Idont know about communism Harry… the government are ■■■■■■■ up all our backs.

[marsden]

limeyphil:

marsden:
One of my own customers has a factory producing puddings, (the sweet type, not stupid people), the workforce is 95% polish, why? well they will get up at midnight to start work at 1am for not much more than the minimum wage, the puddings are on the shelves in supermarkets for £1.99, what would the average uk employee demand for his attempt at turning up at that time and putting in a p*ss poor performance, how much would my customer have to sell the puddings for then? could anybody afford to buy them? The polish go in, work hard and productively and then go home, end of.
The English would turn up at 12.59am have a ■■■ break, moan about getting up in the middle of the night, moan about only being on £8.50 per hour, trail around putting overalls on etc and would`nt really start working (and I use the term working very loosely) until 01.45am.
The majority of the british workforce has been their own worst enemy over the years.

with each worker turning over £200 per hour, it wouldn’t make any difference to the shelf price if they gave the worker £10 per hour.

How the hell have you worked that out? Are wages the only cost to a company then that produces goods?
A perfect example of the British workforce is the British car industry, British Leyland or lack of.
“No not doing that, not in my job description, strike”
Or British truck manufacturing come to that, either way we have the attitude of the British Labour party worker and unions to thank for the demise of both.
Just do your job.

[marsden]

metrorider:
If Brits stopped moaning and just got on with the job, then perhaps the work force in this country would be a more happier and productive bunch.
Mind you, if we stopped moaning as a nation then we’d probably end up moaning that there was nothing to moan about!

+1

[jamdoms]

stevieboy308:

jamdoms:

stevieboy308:

jamdoms:

stevieboy308:
[Someone offers a wage to do a job, either someone accepts it or not, the offer will increase untill someone takes the offer or dissapear because it has become unprofitable. Where’s the exploitation?

We/them are being exploited:
Do you think wages for drivers would be at the rate they are now if it was not for the influx of labour from the old soviet block countries?
Have the wages increased?
In most cases they have stagnated or reversed.
Wage freeze or lower wages offered than several years ago is exploitation in my mind,or is that an example of benevolence?
Or are you rubbing yours hands in anticipation of the cracking Christmas bonus you going to give.
If it walks like a duck…

So because there is a wage freeze or lower wages being offered than previous years, then in your mind that is exploitation.

I never realised I exploited my solicitor 3 years ago when I bought my house, due to supply and demand he was charging half as much as he had previously charged. I won’t even tell you how much cheaper I bought the house for than it was sold for 18 months previous! Supply and demand is always changing, sometimes you’re up, sometimes you’re down.

Of course the influx of eastern European workers has had an impact of wages, anything that effects the supply demand ratio will do. But that’s a political point and not down to individual companies or the workers themselves, but don’t forget that plenty of people have left these shore to work abroad.

Are you confusing me with someone else regaurding the Christmas bonus or just making assumptions?
[/quote

Yes for me that is exploitation.
There is no doubt the labour market is flooded in this country but that amazingly has been accommodated at the expense of the indigenous workers,
not the fault of the people who have come here to work like you suggest its the making of politicians but I’m not naive to think that business and politics don’t go hand in glove, and between them they have created and allowed an endless supply of labour to enter and work here, now don’t tell me in part that was not done to drive down wages and conditions.
Now we have a recession a perfect storm of less jobs more workers equals lower wages and a race to the bottom, I know this, you know this so no doubt do the employers and this is where the exploitation comes in because not all businesses are doing bad out of this situation and some on the backs of this storm are posting record profits yet they are cutting wages or freezing them.
A free maket economy I can hear you shouting, but I say a free market economy is not a fair economy and is based on exploitation.
What concerns me is where the bottom is in this race.
The above is only my opinion I could be right or wrong but it is how I see things.

You get a promotion at work, 5 grand pa extra, how much more do you pay the window cleaner?

You seem to be making out the “exploitation” only works one way, it doesn’t. In a year when profits fall the wages might have to go up to retain staff.

Best we dont forget the window cleaner because he is the guy buying the goods we driving to market!
We dont want him smashing the windows instead of cleaning them do we?

[alamcculloch]

Like a lot of people I shop on line. Most firms throw in P.and P. for free.I think that its wrong that our bit is done for nothing.

[happy_keith]

metrorider:
‘… If Brits stopped moaning … if we stopped moaning … we’d probably end up moaning … to moan about…!’

British, are you

[stevieboy308]

alamcculloch:
Like a lot of people I shop on line. Most firms throw in P.and P. for free.I think that its wrong that our bit is done for nothing.

But It’s not done for free

[stevieboy308]

jamdoms:

stevieboy308:

jamdoms:

stevieboy308:

jamdoms:

stevieboy308:
[Someone offers a wage to do a job, either someone accepts it or not, the offer will increase untill someone takes the offer or dissapear because it has become unprofitable. Where’s the exploitation?

We/them are being exploited:
Do you think wages for drivers would be at the rate they are now if it was not for the influx of labour from the old soviet block countries?
Have the wages increased?
In most cases they have stagnated or reversed.
Wage freeze or lower wages offered than several years ago is exploitation in my mind,or is that an examp le of benevolence?
Or are you rubbing yours hands in anticipation of the cracking Christmas bonus you going to give.
If it walks like a duck…

So because there is a wage freeze or lower wages being offered than previous years, then in your mind that is exploitation.

I never realised I exploited my solicitor 3 years ago when I bought my house, due to supply and demand he was charging half as much as he had previously charged. I won’t even tell you how much cheaper I bought the house for than it was sold for 18 months previous! Supply and demand is always changing, sometimes you’re up, sometimes you’re down.

Of course the influx of eastern European workers has had an impact of wages, anything that effects the supply demand ratio will do. But that’s a political point and not down to individual companies or the workers themselves, but don’t forget that plenty of people have left these shore to work abroad.

Are you confusing me with someone else regaurding the Christmas bonus or just making assumptions?
[/quote

Yes for me that is exploitation.
There is no doubt the labour market is flooded in this country but that amazingly has been accommodated at the expense of the indigenous workers,
not the fault of the people who have come here to work like you suggest its the making of politicians but I’m not naive to think that business and politics don’t go hand in glove, and between them they have created and allowed an endless supply of labour to enter and work here, now don’t tell me in part that was not done to drive down wages and conditions.
Now we have a recession a perfect storm of less jobs more workers equals lower wages and a race to the bottom, I know this, you know this so no doubt do the employers and this is where the exploitation comes in because not all businesses are doing bad out of this situation and some on the backs of this storm are posting record profits yet they are cutting wages or freezing them.
A free maket economy I can hear you shouting, but I say a free market economy is not a fair economy and is based on exploitation.
What concerns me is where the bottom is in this race.
The above is only my opinion I could be right or wrong but it is how I see things.

You get a promotion at work, 5 grand pa extra, how much more do you pay the. window cleaner?

You seem to be making out the “exploitation” only works one way, it doesn’t. In a year when profits fall the wages might have to go up to retain staff.

Best we dont forget the window cleaner because he is the guy buying the goods we driving to market!
We dont want him smashing the windows instead of cleaning them do we?

No never forget the window cleaner! But how much extra do you pay him after your 5k payrise?

[tommy_t]

At the end of the day

Jobs have to pay a high enough wage So that working becomes worthwhile, in other words has to pay enough,not only to sustain a reasonable lifestyle ,(inc paying all household utility bills)but also pay enough so that there is a surplus left each month /week for that holiday ,or new motor ect, otherwise there’s not a lot of point in working

I ain’t going to work 60hrs+ each week or live in the cab for the minimum wage i don’t expect £20 per hr either but a reasonable rate of pay be that £8-12per hr or £130 a day (n/o inc) they ain’t top line , but they are realistic rates,

I would not work for less driving a truck, The op talks about graft lack of as only driving , driving may not be physically demanding but it can be mentally challenging at times , plus drivers are payed as drivers and not labourer’s

[jamdoms]

stevieboy308:

jamdoms:

stevieboy308:

jamdoms:

stevieboy308:

jamdoms:

stevieboy308:
[Someone offers a wage to do a job, either someone accepts it or not, the offer will increase untill someone takes the offer or dissapear because it has become unprofitable. Where’s the exploitation?

We/them are being exploited:
Do you think wages for drivers would be at the rate they are now if it was not for the influx of labour from the old soviet block countries?
Have the wages increased?
In most cases they have stagnated or reversed.
Wage freeze or lower wages offered than several years ago is exploitation in my mind,or is that an examp le of benevolence?
Or are you rubbing yours hands in anticipation of the cracking Christmas bonus you going to give.
If it walks like a duck…

So because there is a wage freeze or lower wages being offered than previous years, then in your mind that is exploitation.

I never realised I exploited my solicitor 3 years ago when I bought my house, due to supply and demand he was charging half as much as he had previously charged. I won’t even tell you how much cheaper I bought the house for than it was sold for 18 months previous! Supply and demand is always changing, sometimes you’re up, sometimes you’re down.

Of course the influx of eastern European workers has had an impact of wages, anything that effects the supply demand ratio will do. But that’s a political point and not down to individual companies or the workers themselves, but don’t forget that plenty of people have left these shore to work abroad.

Are you confusing me with someone else regaurding the Christmas bonus or just making assumptions?
[/quote

Yes for me that is exploitation.
There is no doubt the labour market is flooded in this country but that amazingly has been accommodated at the expense of the indigenous workers,
not the fault of the people who have come here to work like you suggest its the making of politicians but I’m not naive to think that business and politics don’t go hand in glove, and between them they have created and allowed an endless supply of labour to enter and work here, now don’t tell me in part that was not done to drive down wages and conditions.
Now we have a recession a perfect storm of less jobs more workers equals lower wages and a race to the bottom, I know this, you know this so no doubt do the employers and this is where the exploitation comes in because not all businesses are doing bad out of this situation and some on the backs of this storm are posting record profits yet they are cutting wages or freezing them.
A free maket economy I can hear you shouting, but I say a free market economy is not a fair economy and is based on exploitation.
What concerns me is where the bottom is in this race.
The above is only my opinion I could be right or wrong but it is how I see things.

You get a promotion at work, 5 grand pa extra, how much more do you pay the. window cleaner?

You seem to be making out the “exploitation” only works one way, it doesn’t. In a year when profits fall the wages might have to go up to retain staff.

Best we dont forget the window cleaner because he is the guy buying the goods we driving to market!
We dont want him smashing the windows instead of cleaning them do we?

No never forget the window cleaner! But how much extra do you pay him after your 5k payrise?

I believe that the jam needs to go around, my heart ain’t mean neither do I walk around with my hands clenched like fists and stuck in my pockets.
And whats more I would have the cleanest windows in the street because whatever I paid it would not be exploitative.

[bill1961]

chester:

BILL1961:

Harry Monk:

war1974:
why should people have to work 50-60 hours per week to earn a decent wage when it is a skilled job?

It’s not a skilled job, a skilled job is something you study for over the course of several years, not a fortnight.

[zb]!
Driving an HGV in a professional manner IS a skill, and that skill is developed over time. Thats why you see newly qualified drivers shunting back and forth to get on a loading bay, yet seasoned drivers reverse onto a bay first go.

So your obituary would say done nowt all his life but could reverse on a bay first time

we drive trucks for a living its no big deal, I can train my bint of a girlfriend who is a fashion designer to do our job within a couple of weeks!

And how much does your lass earn as a fashion designer, if more than a hgv driver, why?