heading back up the 61 last thursday 20 Min’s from over night at rheinbollen pulled by b.a.g. for control point in parkplatz thought no problem i am totally legal.nice man scanned 28 days discs said i had a problem. their were no charts for saturdays or letter for lost days from the firm. told him we don’t work saturdays. he said in Germany it possible to work 6 days so must have disk or letter.i showed him their was no lost mileage on the chart but he said i could be driving another vehicle. paid the nice man 350 euro and went on my way. be warned different countries different interpretation. “KEEP ON TRUCKING”
@the tourist, You are wrong it is EU reg,s and therefore binding in all EU countrys
you must have a letter from your firm explaining why you have not driven that day or days, etc,have a look HEREALSO through the Safety and
Law forum on here it has been mentioned often enough,
Surely if you are having you weekly break and away from your truck you cannot leave you card in in case it is moved, but the letter of attestation which you are supposed to carry to explain breaks in tacho records only has 3 options.
That is:
Due to illness
Due to annual leave
or you have been driving vehicles not covered by the EU AETR regulations.
No option to say you have been taking a weekly rest period, also using the BAG’s logic you should also have a record for Sunday as you could be driving in a country without a Sunday ban or driving in Germany because you have a permit.
brit pete:
@the tourist, You are wrong it is EU reg,s and therefore binding in all EU countrys
No it’s not, is does not form part of the EU regulations.
brit pete:
you must have a letter from your firm explaining why you have not driven that day or days, etc
Non-mandatory in Germany.
thetourist:
heading back up the 61 last thursday 20 Min’s from over night at rheinbollen pulled by b.a.g. for control point in parkplatz thought no problem i am totally legal.nice man scanned 28 days discs said i had a problem. their were no charts for saturdays or letter for lost days from the firm. told him we don’t work saturdays. he said in Germany it possible to work 6 days so must have disk or letter.i showed him their was no lost mileage on the chart but he said i could be driving another vehicle. paid the nice man 350 euro and went on my way. be warned different countries different interpretation. “KEEP ON TRUCKING”
i was trained on tacho’s by a trainer that had done Europe for 20 years that when done work in an other country when you have a weekly rest say you finish on Friday put i line on the back and put SWR (start weekly rest) and for the days you were no driving fill a chart in with the day and reg, mileage on on the back put weekly rest till you go back to work and the the first tacho you use put on the back EWR (end weekly rest) he then would have 7 tacho’s for each week and no missing days
Okay It may not be mandatory, but this is the VOSA recommendation
On international journeys, drivers should carry letters of attestation from their employers in the language of each country to be visited to cover sick leave, annual leave or other periods of inactivity, or any time spent driving a vehicle which is out of the scope of EU/AETR rules during the preceding 28 days. Find an EU approved attestation form on the Europa website -
In Germany they will fine you normally,IF they ask for the form and you do not have it so why not make it mandatory in all country’s then the problem solved,
COFFEEHOLIC: WHY do they then use wording such as this below,
.
Member States have the possibility to make it obligatory on their territory and require it from all drivers concerned.from this SITE
And this is what the form says.
-
the current day + the previous 28 days (as of 1 January 2008)
The attestation may be used only when a driver has: -
been on sick leave
-
been on leave, which forms part of the annual leave according to the legislation of the Member State where the undertaking is established
-
driven another vehicle exempted from the scope of Regulation (EC) No 561/2006 or AETR
Followed by this.
The attestation covers only the types of activity contained in it. The form cannot be used for other activities.
It should be noted that the form does not replace the obligations to record activities as stated in Article 6 (5) of Regulation (EC) No 561/2006 and in Article 15 of Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85.
6 (5) A driver shall record as other work any time spent as
described in Article 4(e) as well as any time spent driving a
vehicle used for commercial operations not falling within the
scope of this Regulation, and shall record any periods of
availability, as defined in Article 15(3)(c) of Regulation (EEC)
No 3821/85, since his last daily or weekly rest period. This
record shall be entered either manually on a record sheet, a
printout or by use of manual input facilities on recording
equipment.
brit pete:
Okay It may not be mandatory, but this is the VOSA recommendation
Recommendations are not law.
brit pete:
In Germany they will fine you normally,IF they ask for the form and you do not have it so why not make it mandatory in all country’s then the problem solved.
But as the Germans have not made it mandatory then the fines are incorrect and should be appealed.
brit pete:
COFFEEHOLIC: WHY do they then use wording such as this below,
.
Member States have the possibility to make it obligatory on their territory and require it from all drivers concerned.from this SITE
They use the wording because it is up to each member state whether to require the form or not. Germany have not done so they shouldn’t be asking for a form you are not required to carry in their country. If they want drivers to produce and carry the forms then they should make it mandatory. On the same site you link to above, and on a link you have previously posted on another thread, it clearly shows Germany have not made the Attestation Form mandatory.
Regardless of all that the Attestation Form is not designed to account for weekly rest periods, Wheel Nut has pointed out the things it can be used for and weekly rest periods are not one of them. There is no requirement under the EU Driver’s Regulations to produce any kind of document, tacho chart, form or whatever, to account for rest days and therefore the fine imposed on the OP has no legal basis. He really shouldn’t have paid it but as he has he should appeal it ASAP.
Okay Wheelnut , however why Then do the VOSA put this on the
lorry drivers site; here is the paragraph
On international journeys, drivers should carry letters of attestation from their employers in the language of each country to be visited to cover sick leave, annual leave or other periods of inactivity, or any time spent driving a vehicle which is out of the scope of EU/AETR rules during the preceding 28 days. Find an EU approved attestation form on the Europa website - from thisSITE
as POSTED In Germany, they will ask for one , if you have had time off during trips at Home, Not when you have taken them whilst on the road , Some one has to clear this
point up as its a area where people will disagree ,as pointed out each country is operating
differently,
Coffeeholic:
Regardless of all that the Attestation Form is not designed to account for weekly rest periods, Wheel Nut has pointed out the things it can be used for and weekly rest periods are not one of them. There is no requirement under the EU Driver’s Regulations to produce any kind of document, tacho chart, form or whatever, to account for rest days and therefore the fine imposed on the OP has no legal basis. He really shouldn’t have paid it but as he has he should appeal it ASAP.
quite correct the attestation form is not designed to demonstrate that normal weekl y rest has been taken. The fine should not have been paid and as Coffee says should be appealed immediately.
Right , I am posting this in German with a translation which hopefully will be clear enough to show what we here in Germany have , It is law that we show and prove we have not driven a vehicle when gaps are to be found in the 28 (+) days of carrying either tachographs or on the personal drivers card ,
-§ 20 Nachweis über berücksichtigungsfreie Tage
(1) Fahrer, die die in Artikel 15 Abs. 7 der Verordnung (EWG) Nr. 3821/85 oder Kapitel III Artikel 11 des Anhangs zum AETR oder dieser Verordnung vorgeschriebenen Nachweise nicht oder nicht vollständig vorlegen können, weil sie an einem oder mehreren der vorausgegangenen 28 Kalendertage
1.
ein Fahrzeug gelenkt haben, für deren Führen eine Nachweispflicht nicht besteht,
2.
erkrankt waren,
3.
sich im Urlaub befanden oder
4.
aus anderen Gründen kein Fahrzeug gelenkt haben,
haben bei einer Kontrolle den zuständigen Personen auf Verlangen eine entsprechende Bescheinigung des Unternehmers vorzulegen. Diese Bescheinigung darf nicht handschriftlich ausgefüllt sein. Der Unternehmer hat den betroffenen Fahrern die Bescheinigung vor Fahrtantritt unter Angabe der Gründe für das Fehlen von Arbeitszeitnachweisen auszustellen und auszuhändigen. Die Bescheinigung ist vom Unternehmer oder einer von ihm beauftragten Person, die nicht der Fahrer selbst sein darf, und vom Fahrer zu unterzeichnen. Nach Ablauf der Mitführungspflicht hat der Fahrer die Bescheinigung unverzüglich im Unternehmen abzugeben.
(2) In den Fällen, in denen eine solche Bescheinigung nicht ausgestellt werden konnte, weil die berücksichtigungsfreien Tage unterwegs angefallen sind, hat der Unternehmer auf Verlangen der zuständigen Kontrollbehörde oder -stelle nachträglich eine Bescheinigung auszustellen oder vorzulegen.
(3) Der Unternehmer hat die Bescheinigungen ab dem Zeitpunkt der Rückgabe durch den Fahrer ein Jahr außerhalb des Fahrzeugs aufzubewahren und den Fahrern auf Verlangen eine Kopie auszuhändigen. Nach Ablauf der Aufbewahrungspflicht sind die Bescheinigungen bis zum 31. März des folgenden Kalenderjahres zu vernichten.
Here IS the English translation and I did not do it I used the PC.
-§ 20 proof of consideration-free days (1) driver, who can submit in article 15 exp. 7 of the regulation (EEC) No. 3821/85 or chapter III article 11 of the appendix for the AETR or this regulation prescribed proof not or not completely, because her to or several of the preceeding 28 calender dates 1. a vehicle directed, for their leading an accountability does not exist, 2. gets sick were, 3. in the vacation were or 4. for other reasons steered no vehicle, have to submit an appropriate certificate of the entrepreneur to the responsible persons on demands with control. This certificate may not be handwritten filled out. The entrepreneur has to issue and hand the drivers concerned the certificate out before departure under indication of the reasons for the absence of work time proofs. The certificate is from the entrepreneur or one of it assigned person, who may not be the driver, to sign and from the driver to. At expiration of the carrying obligation the driver has to deliver the certificate immediately in the enterprise. (2) in the cases, in which such a certificate could not be issued, because the consideration-free days resulted on the way, the entrepreneur upon the requests of the responsible board of control has or - place later a certificate to issue or submit. (3) the entrepreneur has the certificates starting from the time of the return by the driver one year outside of the vehicle to keep and to the drivers on demand a copy hand out. At expiration of the storage obligation are the certificates up to 31. To destroy March of the following calendar year.
Drivers have to obey the laws in other country’s, and therefore this is the reason why
you will be done for not having proof that you did not drive,on the days at home when
out on the road,Let us look logicically , it makes sense to use a form which is known
all over the EU or would you rather carry a copy in the language of every country
you have to drive through?? SORRY but I would rather use a form that is known by all
and also recognised,
Pete post what you like
for Gods sake man you know as well as I do that BAG do next expect every driver to start every week off with an attestation form because they have been home for the weekend, nor does any inspection force on this planet, it can be seen on any tacho (disc or digital) that it is the weekend and that you have had your weekly time off, the attestation forms are for holiday, sickness, course attendance etc, etc .
brit pete:
Okay Wheelnut , however why Then do the VOSA put this on the
lorry drivers site; here is the paragraph
On international journeys, drivers should carry letters of attestation from their employers in the language of each country to be visited to cover sick leave, annual leave or other periods of inactivity, or any time spent driving a vehicle which is out of the scope of EU/AETR rules during the preceding 28 days. Find an EU approved attestation form on the Europa website - from thisSITE
as POSTED In Germany, they will ask for one , if you have had time off during trips at Home, Not when you have taken them whilst on the road , Some one has to clear this
point up as its a area where people will disagree ,as pointed out each country is operating
differently,
Pete, to put it simply. VOSA do not make laws, the only applicable law is here. The Current Regulation 561/2006 As you know it is discussed, argued and ratified by every country.
Some of the VOSA leaflets are plainly wrong, as are no doubt some BAG leaflets or guides. But the BAG on the ground doesn’t use a leaflet, he uses the law as written by the EU.
As for the Germans always being correct Pete. This silly idea that every driver must interrupt his weekly rest to drive to the yard or his lorry to change tacho cards is not written in law either.
This post should be renamed kaffee geld
brit pete:
Okay Wheelnut , however why Then do the VOSA put this on the
lorry drivers site; here is the paragraph
On international journeys, drivers should carry letters of attestation from their employers in the language of each country to be visited to cover sick leave,annual leave or other periods of inactivity, or any time spent driving a vehicle which is out of the scope of EU/AETR rules during the preceding 28 days. Find an EU approved attestation form on the Europa website - from thisSITE
as POSTED In Germany, they will ask for one , if you have had time off during trips at Home, Not when you have taken them whilst on the road , Some one has to clear this
point up as its a area where people will disagree ,as pointed out each country is operating
differently,
Here is an interesting page from the EU
Wheel Nut:
Here is an interesting page from the EU
Mobility and transport - European Commission
That’s the site Pete has linked to several times but obviously not read as it shows the form is non-mandatory in Germany. 
brit pete:
Okay Wheelnut , however why Then do the VOSA put this on the
lorry drivers site; here is the paragraph
On international journeys, drivers should carry letters of attestation from their employers…
[/quote]
One very important word there Pete, highlighted in red.
Should = advice = not compulsory.
Must = requirement = compulsory.
They use should and not must so that tells you everything.
Okay ladies &gentlemen, not going to disagree , just will say,
where ever one is driving , we have to follow their laws , well
its law in Germany as was posted above to carry a letter to explain
WHEN IT IS REQUIRED AS PER ;;PARA 20 ;;, this goes for all drivers
From all country’s
Referring again to the VOSA recommendation it’s quite surprising how wrong they can get it. The EU site advice is;
Use of the form of attestation of activities in member states
The use of the form of attestation of activities established by the Commission decision 230/2007/EC is only obligatory in those Member States which require it. However, enforcement authorities in all EU Member States must respect this form (in any Community language) if a driver presents it to attest one of the three activities.
If VOSA can get things wrong it can be no surprise that BAG are so inadequate.
just in case you want to know which country as it MANDATORY
MEMBER STATE WHERE THE FORM IS
MANDATORY
Not been reading the thread eh Del? Wheel Nut posted that link yesterday. 