Andrejs:
In France not requared evidence all the timehttp://www.fura.lt/uploads/dok/anglu.pdf
4.2 Will evidence that the driver has taken his/her regular weekly rest period away
from the vehicle (hotel bill, campsite bill, sworn statement that the driver has stayed
with a friend or family member, etc.) be required?
Under existing law, there is no requirement to present specific evidence that the regular
weekly rest period has been taken away from the vehicle.
The burden of proof is set out in Article 427 of the French Code of Criminal Procedure:
“Except where the law otherwise provides, offences may be proved by any mode of
evidence and the judge decides according to his innermost conviction. The judge may only
base his decision on evidence which was submitted in the course of the hearing and
adversarially discussed before him.”
If evidence of infringement of the regular weekly rest period rules is found, as with any
other offence, the burden of proof will rest with the investigatory authorities and, where
applicable, the competent prosecuting authorities.
It appears all they need is evidence that a company hasn’t got system in place to ensure drivers are complying with the weekly rest regulations.
4.1 What physical evidence will be used to verify whether the driver has taken his/her regular weekly rest period away from the vehicle?
In order to ascertain whether an employer has breached its duty to organise the work of
drivers in such a way that drivers are able to take their regular weekly rest period away
from the vehicle, enforcement officers will gather clues during roadside inspections, focusing in particular on evidence that drivers employed by the same company frequently take their regular weekly rest periods in the vehicle.
Evidence of a single, isolated incident of a driver taking a regular weekly rest period in the
vehicle is insufficient, in the absence of other evidence, to consider that the employer has
committed an offence under Article 15 of the Law of 10 July 2014. As a result of the
evidence gathered during roadside inspections, further investigations may be required
involving the companies employing the drivers concerned.
And your idea of saying you stayed with friends or family might work, but do all the drivers in your company have friends and family to stay with, would seem unlikely. And if they did they could stop it going to court by giving names and addresses, so they could be checked out.
Of course they don’t have to, they can do a “No Comment” interview, but it will seem strange to those in court that when asked the drivers weren’t willing to give details of where they’d been during their weekend rest and therefore might prejudice their defence.
dieseldog999:
i wonder what the charge sheet would read if flipflop driver #1.parked beside flipflop driver #2 and they just kipped in each others cabs for the weekend?..they would be away from their own truck,and they would have a proper bed…
They’ve thought of that and supplying them with big bunk houses or even camping. and the last sentence is pretty much a catch all statement.
5.1. What types of accommodation may employers provide for drivers who are required to spend their regular weekly rest period away from the base of the undertaking?
Employers must provide decent, hygienic and comfortable accommodation conditions for
any drivers required to spend their regular weekly rest period away from the base of the
undertaking.
Articles R. 4228-26 to R. 4228-34 of the French Labour Code set out details of the types of
accommodation that employers may provide to workers (minimum dimensions, facilities,
etc.).
The attention of employees is drawn in particular to the obligation of prior declaration to
the Prefect of the department concerned in relation to collective housing, as required
under Law no. 73-548 of 27 June 1973 concerning collective housing.
An employer will be in breach of the requirements of Article 8.8 of Regulation (EC)
561/2006 of 15 March 2006 if it requires its drivers to take their regular weekly rest period
by parking their vehicles at a dedicated site, irrespective of the access conditions and
facilities of this site, and requiring them to sleep in the vehicle.
Furthermore, Article R. 111-41 of the French Urban Planning Code prohibits camping at
the roadside and on public highways. It is also considered an offence, under the French Penal Code, to impose unfit accommodation and working conditions.
mazzer:
Andrejs if you think the chances are slim of getting caught go to the facebook page LKW Checker, Zeebrugge 120 lorries checked 46 in the wrong a total of 113000 euro in fines issued an easy days work for the authorities most of those will be from the same company.
I’ll admit I have no knowledge on this subject and just reading out of interest.
It may be that these rules haven’t been enforced previously, but once some official sees how much money is there to be made I bet they will be enforcing it now
kcrussell25:
once some official sees how much money is there to be made I bet they will be enforcing it now
If Mazzers source is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it) 113000 euros per day is no to be sniffed at. Imagine how many “diversity officers” that could fund!
That’s what I’m talking about >>> you could see it as a cashcow
BUT like others on here and myself said: This money is to stop companies from dumping social standards and wages for EE drivers.
One person just doesn’t seem to get it and brings random side stories up. Yes France and Belgium enforcing this law since 3 years. And yes you don’t hear much about it but we got lot of other themes in news in these days. Therefor this content gets lost easily.
I think this law is the only way to make companies like these Cowboys feel the pressure.
Is the same way how Germany charges a high percentage of the win margine when you get pentalties for insecure loads, ADR offences, unsafe vehilce conditions, tacho offences etc. That’s how the companies may be learn.
The driver won’t know what the boss has to pay.
One last thing:
The driver gets also charged for weekend cab ban offences in Germany. That’s the down side of this new law but it may change after a few drivers sue the authorities for it.
Tipperdipper1:
That’s what I’m talking about >>> you could see it as a cashcow
BUT like others on here and myself said: This money is to stop companies from dumping social standards and wages for EE drivers.
One person just doesn’t seem to get it and brings random side stories up. Yes France and Belgium enforcing this law since 3 years. And yes you don’t hear much about it but we got lot of other themes in news in these days. Therefor this content gets lost easily.
I think this law is the only way to make companies like these Cowboys feel the pressure.
Is the same way how Germany charges a high percentage of the win margine when you get pentalties for insecure loads, ADR offences, unsafe vehilce conditions, tacho offences etc. That’s how the companies may be learn.
The driver won’t know what the boss has to pay.
One last thing:
The driver gets also charged for weekend cab ban offences in Germany. That’s the down side of this new law but it may change after a few drivers sue the authorities for it.
The bosses will rightly so ALWAYS PAY
People talk who EE work for small money,who now social dumping and more.If this rulles start work full and all EE drivers will sleep in 5 star hotel that how sleeping in hotel can increase wages for UK driver or Germany???How sleeping in hotel can reduced social dumping???If drivers will sleep in hotel that this cost about 200 quid per month and some 20 will be lost in revenue due less millege.Company simply increase delivery price for about 3-4 euro cent per kilometres or less.Big company in Uk have plenty work inside ,make profit and without interes do international job.Plus international job less profitable.
One from best optional,rulles for this weekend sleeping in truck must simply.Any drivers who need 45 hours sleep can sleep in cab but truck must parked not everewhere but at services,special parking with some minimum requirement-bin for rubbish,good table ,access to internet,shower,some kitchen .If truck parked at lay by long time that police must give penalty for not legal parking.Most truck have better bed and mattress that in most hotel.
Andrejs:
People talk who EE work for small money,who now social dumping and more.If this rulles start work full and all EE drivers will sleep in 5 star hotel that how sleeping in hotel can increase wages for UK driver or Germany???How sleeping in hotel can reduced social dumping???If drivers will sleep in hotel that this cost about 200 quid per month and some 20 will be lost in revenue due less millege.Company simply increase delivery price for about 3-4 euro cent per kilometres or less.Big company in Uk have plenty work inside ,make profit and without interes do international job.Plus international job less profitable.
There’s no requirement for a 5 star hotel…
The intention behind it is to create a more level playing field. I don’t know many UK/ French/German drivers that stay out for as long as some of the EE drivers, so the ban will affect them the most…
Andrejs:
People talk who EE work for small money,who now social dumping and more.If this rulles start work full and all EE drivers will sleep in 5 star hotel that how sleeping in hotel can increase wages for UK driver or Germany???How sleeping in hotel can reduced social dumping???If drivers will sleep in hotel that this cost about 200 quid per month and some 20 will be lost in revenue due less millege.Company simply increase delivery price for about 3-4 euro cent per kilometres or less.Big company in Uk have plenty work inside ,make profit and without interes do international job.Plus international job less profitable.
There’s no requirement for a 5 star hotel…
The intention behind it is to create a more level playing field. I don’t know many UK/ French/German drivers that stay out for as long as some of the EE drivers, so the ban will affect them the most…
Ok drivers will sleep in hotel and Monday start drive.How this can affect much better to road safety or for UK drivers wages,Uk company profit???What bad if driver agree sleep and live in truck 1-2 month ■■?
I know UK drivers who stay now for 1 month in truck because they have long distance from home to work base.Some Scotish man and driver from North of England live in caravan near Magna park and work here for lorry drivers.If they agree that why not.Most drivers who sleep in truck al least sleeep good.But to many drivers who go home every weekend whan back to work Monday and moaning who they want sleep,tired.
Is this law going to be upheld throughout Europe and is it being misunderstood ?
The law does state that we can’t weekend for 45hr in the truck, but due to the nature of our work it’s something that cannot be avoided, isn’t this being aimed at those who park on industrial areas and lay-bys with no facilities available, squatting under hedgerows and leaving bottles of urine everywhere.
If you’re willing to pay for a weekend in an autohof with restaurant and sanitary amenities available, perhaps this would suffice.
Grumpy Dad:
If you’re willing to pay for a weekend in an autohof with restaurant and sanitary amenities available, perhaps this would suffice.
Unfortunately in the eyes of the law that will not suffice. You can be weekended out every weekend of the year in mainland Europe providing you can produce hotel receipts when requested for these weekends. What they’re really saying is that “we are no longer prepared to be a dumping ground for EE companies to undercut our domestic markets via doing it on the cheap”. The authorities are fully aware that these companies will not bear the cost of paying for a hotel every weekend for their drivers so therefore will move the problem away from “their patch”.
Grumpy Dad:
Is this law going to be upheld throughout Europe and is it being misunderstood ?
The law does state that we can’t weekend for 45hr in the truck, but due to the nature of our work it’s something that cannot be avoided, isn’t this being aimed at those who park on industrial areas and lay-bys with no facilities available, squatting under hedgerows and leaving bottles of urine everywhere.
If you’re willing to pay for a weekend in an autohof with restaurant and sanitary amenities available, perhaps this would suffice.
As I understand it: The law applies to statutory 45hr breaks. If youre on your first weekend break, that can be 24hrs, so is not covered. You may be stopped for over 45hrs but if you only need a 24 youre OK. It`s designed to penalise those who do many weeks away, not those who do a 2 or maybe 3 week trip.
As I understand it: The law applies to statutory 45hr breaks. If youre on your first weekend break, that can be 24hrs, so is not covered. You may be stopped for over 45hrs but if you only need a 24 youre OK. It`s designed to penalise those who do many weeks away, not those who do a 2 or maybe 3 week trip.
[/quote]
Plausible, but Germany are imposing fines of €60ph over a 24, though the law states a break of less than 45 is classed as a reduced rest and be repaid, which if you’re weekend for 44 you’ll pay a fine of €1200 even though it’s not officially a 45
^^^^^ in that case I’m afraid that a trip to the courts to defend myself would be on the cards. The law is clear cut with no ambiguity or interpretation to be made; a reduced break is ok, a full break is not. 44 hours is a reduced break, no ifs or buts.
Grumpy Dad:
As I understand it: The law applies to statutory 45hr breaks. If youre on your first weekend break, that can be 24hrs, so is not covered. You may be stopped for over 45hrs but if you only need a 24 youre OK. It`s designed to penalise those who do many weeks away, not those who do a 2 or maybe 3 week trip.
Plausible, but Germany are imposing fines of €60ph over a 24, though the law states a break of less than 45 is classed as a reduced rest and be repaid, which if you’re weekend for 44 you’ll pay a fine of €1200 even though it’s not officially a 45
So, an actual weekly rest of 25 hrs attracts a 60Eu fine and a weekly rest of 36hrs a 840Eu fine? Even if only a 24 is required?
EDIT whoops quotes all to ■■■■!
the maoster:
^^^^^ in that case I’m afraid that a trip to the courts to defend myself would be on the cards. The law is clear cut with no ambiguity or interpretation to be made; a reduced break is ok, a full break is not. 44 hours is a reduced break, no ifs or buts.
Since the enforcement of the law by France and Belgium, the Eastern European drivers have made a run for the U.K. more often than not with infringements to complete their journey for free parking and safety of penalties.
This has lead to an increasing amount parked in lay-bys and on industrial areas for 2-3 days, with no amenities, leaving them the option of carrying their body waste with them or using hedgerows, empty buildings, secluded areas for their bodily functions.
Perhaps the way forward would be for DVSA to enforce the law and give on the spot fines, but then again it took the government time to introduce the HGV Levy so I wouldn’t hold my breath while the authorities penalised foreign drivers and not UK drivers.
franglais:
As I understand it: The law applies to statutory 45hr breaks. If youre on your first weekend break, that can be 24hrs, so is not covered. You may be stopped for over 45hrs but if you only need a 24 youre OK. It`s designed to penalise those who do many weeks away, not those who do a 2 or maybe 3 week trip.
Plausible, but Germany are imposing fines of €60ph over a 24, though the law states a break of less than 45 is classed as a reduced rest and be repaid, which if you’re weekend for 44 you’ll pay a fine of €1200 even though it’s not officially a 45
Do you have any evidence of them actually fining for periods from 24 to 45 hours?
From what I’ve read it’s only regular rest periods, 45 hours plus, and it must not be in a vehicle and the driver must have access to proper sleeping facilities and away from the immediate vicinity of the vehicle, open to interpretation, but no doubt there to stop employers saying you must sleep in the trailer or a tent as has been suggested by some.
They treat the not having access to proper sleeping facilities away from the truck as not having sufficient weekly rest, hence the €60ph figure, and if it’s a 45 hour break that will be fine for the whole 45 hour period, but I have not seen anything about a fine for a reduced weekly rest period, that is any period between 24 and 44 hours and 59 minutes.
They also say the company will be fined €180ph for the same offence.
The French and Germans have used the law on weekending, which was ignored for years, as a tool to deal with another problem, this interpritation was held up by the EU, despite protest mainly from East European countries, but I wonder if it would have been held up if it had been Spain, Sweden, Poland enforcing this interpritation of the drivers hours regulations or am I being cynical?
“You may not take regular weekly rest periods in a vehicle. You may, however, take daily rest periods and reduced weekly rest periods away from base in a vehicle. The vehicle must be stationary during the rest periods and must be fitted with suitable sleeping facilities for you and any other driver.”
The sleeping in cabs is an EU directive and is the law in all countries not just Germany, France and Belgium, the later were rumoured to have enforced the law as means to end social dumping and cabotage as well as to cease eastern block hauliers from dumping their units for weeks on end in services, Codognotto had a dozen units parked up in Drongen Belgium for almost 3 months, the Netherlands were to enforce it but it is currently upgrading its network of truckstops and fining drivers being parked on exit and entry slips of services and lay-bys forcing them into pay per hour parking areas, the U.K. is possibly looking at enforcing a £300 fine to drivers who 45hr in cabs.
A reduced rest is from 24 to 44:59.
