I used to teach catB or cars if your old school and i found if things were not sticking in when they went in to the battle field then i would get them to cut there speed by 5mph and commontate on what it was they needed to do and that ment they were saying allowed what was in front of them and what they needed to do so, “im approaching a roundabout thats open, im going to slow down gradually until my speed is right for 2nd gear,” and if the gaer or speed they select is wrong or not right for the situation then i question, “really 2nd”, then id say for instance, “its very open and you can clearly see its clear with very little change in direction maybe try 3rd” etc, etc.
Can take a short while for them to get in to the role tho, people dont like the sound of there own voice at 1st but it does come after about 20 minutes or so.
Dont know if this is of any use to ya but i managed to get some rather dificult students thro driving test using this method and you could easily adapt it for there 4 over 4.
smoker:
So I reckon if you* can’t handle a 4 over 4 it’s pretty sad really. I mean really, flick the switch up and you get 4 more gears - woohoo, not rocket science is it.
Errr, isn’t a 4 over 4 a knock accross? A switch (or paddle or collar) would be a range change wouldn’t it?
It’s about the easiest to get your head around. A flat 8 is more confusing to start with because you have to learn how much knock to give the stick, and where the gears now lie (without knocking it down again) .
Is there such a thing as a flat 8? Most i’ve seen flat is 6.
8 is a heck of a lots of slots.
smoker:
So I reckon if you* can’t handle a 4 over 4 it’s pretty sad really. I mean really, flick the switch up and you get 4 more gears - woohoo, not rocket science is it.
Errr, isn’t a 4 over 4 a knock accross? A switch (or paddle or collar) would be a range change wouldn’t it?
It’s about the easiest to get your head around. A flat 8 is more confusing to start with because you have to learn how much knock to give the stick, and where the gears now lie (without knocking it down again) .
Is there such a thing as a flat 8? Most i’ve seen flat is 6.
8 is a heck of a lots of slots.
Seems there’s some confusion in terminology here.
I think he means similar to the ZF 16 speed box with a slapover change. That is a flat eight with 8 splits.
I also think that calling it a flat eight or flat 6 is confusing too
First time i drove a slap over range changer was given 3 minutes round the yard. Told not to change gear to quickly and sent off to London… Don’t remember it taking long to get used to it.
smoker:
So I reckon if you* can’t handle a 4 over 4 it’s pretty sad really. I mean really, flick the switch up and you get 4 more gears - woohoo, not rocket science is it.
Errr, isn’t a 4 over 4 a knock accross? A switch (or paddle or collar) would be a range change wouldn’t it?
It’s about the easiest to get your head around. A flat 8 is more confusing to start with because you have to learn how much knock to give the stick, and where the gears now lie (without knocking it down again) .
Is there such a thing as a flat 8? Most i’ve seen flat is 6.
8 is a heck of a lots of slots.
Seems there’s some confusion in terminology here.
I think he means similar to the ZF 16 speed box with a slapover change. That is a flat eight with 8 splits.
I also think that calling it a flat eight or flat 6 is confusing too
I’m only going off what I was told.
Here is what I call a 4 over 4
which makes sense to me if this is a 3 over 3
which leaves this as a “flat” 8
They all have range changes, it’s just the implementation that differs between knock across and a paddle/switch/collar.
Just for a laugh, I had more trouble with splitters and range changes than with the style of box. I kept accidentally using the splitter instead of the range change, which led to some unexpected stops I eventually figured out that the range change is always on the front (if there is a switch on the front and the side). The collar change took me a few minutes to find too, but all this was done “on the job” and within minutes of leaving the yard.
Thanks to Scanny for the pics
practice or money eg each time the bugger it up they got to buy you a brew if they make ten mistake’s then it’s breakfast !!! or threaten them they will be doing thier test on a erf with a splitter
i prefer the twin splitter over the 4 over 4 anyway
It is a range change gearbox with 4 lower lifting gears and 4 higher driving gears - sorry about the confusion, I should have been more specific.
You can take your test in an auto but you are then restricted to driving autos for that licence catagory.
I have tried everything that has been posted so far - thanks - keep the ideas coming.
What bit of learning to use the box are they struggling with? I remember the first time I used one trying to change from 4th to 5th, or worse still down again, the dodgy bit. Once someone told me to open the window and listen for the “thump” as you change between boxes, I was fine.
Lucy:
What bit of learning to use the box are they struggling with? I remember the first time I used one trying to change from 4th to 5th, or worse still down again, the dodgy bit. Once someone told me to open the window and listen for the “thump” as you change between boxes, I was fine.
Tried that - I think they need some sort of on-dash light system to tell them what gear they are in, what gear to go to next and how to do it!
Lucy:
What bit of learning to use the box are they struggling with? I remember the first time I used one trying to change from 4th to 5th, or worse still down again, the dodgy bit. Once someone told me to open the window and listen for the “thump” as you change between boxes, I was fine.
Tried that - I think they need some sort of on-dash light system to tell them what gear they are in, what gear to go to next and how to do it!
Ah! The Daf Ecosplit system. Yellow arrows pointing up or down although that was only for economy really.
It could be worse ROG, Just think yourself lucky your not having to teach double de-clutching and throttle blipping as well as range changing! Before anyone else says it I expect someone is going to say they still do it with a synchro box cos its what theve always done!
mikermhh:
It could be worse ROG, Just think yourself lucky your not having to teach double de-clutching and throttle blipping as well as range changing! Before anyone else says it I expect someone is going to say they still do it with a synchro box cos its what theve always done!
did double de-clutching and throttle blipping on my test in 88 cos there were still crash gear boxes in use. I have not come across one for years now.
throttle blipping - i still teach that - matching transmission speed to road speed.
Dogmatix:
You could take them to an airfield and just practice going up and down the gears.
I did that and after a dozen or so gear range exercises they get it right but then we go on the road and it all falls down again
Mmmm, if they get it right on an empty airfield - with lots of room and no other numpties around - it sounds like they’re still having to think about driving the lorry rather than it being instinctive. This is backed up by what you say about it “falling down” when out on real roads amongst real traffic. They’re having to think about too much - and as the lorry-driving part isn’t yet instinctive their brain can’t cope with the developing situations around them, as well as having to think about which gear/range they should be in.
Someone once said to me that when you don’t have to think about the functions of (insert any mental / mechanical function here) you’ve mastered it!
I think it’s just practice. It will suddenly click into place when their brain reaches the “auto-pilot” stage.
Dogmatix:
You could take them to an airfield and just practice going up and down the gears.
I did that and after a dozen or so gear range exercises they get it right but then we go on the road and it all falls down again
Mmmm, if they get it right on an empty airfield - with lots of room and no other numpties around - it sounds like they’re still having to think about driving the lorry rather than it being instinctive. This is backed up by what you say about it “falling down” when out on real roads amongst real traffic. They’re having to think about too much - and as the lorry-driving part isn’t yet instinctive their brain can’t cope with the developing situations around them, as well as having to think about which gear/range they should be in.
Someone once said to me that when you don’t have to think about the functions of (insert any mental / mechanical function here) you’ve mastered it!
I think it’s just practice. It will suddenly click into place when their brain reaches the “auto-pilot” stage.
For a lot of them it would take a 1 month course!!!
students thro driving test using this method and you could easily adapt it for there 4 over 4.
