Just to lighten it up a bit…
and of course… where would we be without the 2017 election result, totaly debacle as it was…
adam277:
Few decades ago being left and euro-sceptic was common place.
Some of the most prominent leftists did not want anything to do with the EU.If people once believed it then they can believe it again. Hear Hear!
People who voted to leave the EU are not racist like the media make out. This is the biggest lie going on at the moment. I also think it is far more damaging then any lie the leave campaign did. Because it has divided our society.The left need reminding that their most prominent members in the past were euro-sceptic and that this is not a bad thing.
Tony Benn for example he completely disagreed with the idea of the EU.
You will struggle to get more socialist than this guy.Here is a quote from wiki from him about the EU.
Later in his diary, (25 October 1977) Benn wrote that he “loathed” the EEC; he claimed it was “bureaucratic and centralised” and “of course it is really dominated by Germany. All the Common Market countries except the UK have been occupied by Germany, and they have this mixed feeling of hatred and subservience towards the Germans”.
It’s just a shame that his son is nothing like him.
Yes indeed. I shared Benn senior’s dream of “nationalizing the banks”. As I’ve said before on here - I may be Right Wing on “Law and Order” - but I’m rather Left Wing on finance.
I also subscribe to the opinion that Denis Healey was the “Best Prime Minster that Labour never had”. Callaghan - tied his hands something rotten as chancellor.
If Labour could ditch their current Political Correctness folly that they seem to have been infected with by the outgoing centerists - then they could concentrate on being PROPER Left Wing again.
e: GE 2019
by adam277 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:12 pm
Well I have made my decision.
I will be voting for Jeremy Corbyn.
Hear me out.
I wont vote for TBP because I don’t see why a clean break brexit is necessarily. The vote was 52/48 that to me is not a mandate for a hard brexit. That is a mandate for a compromise. Yes we need to deliver brexit but we shouldn’t ignore 48% of the populous in the process we can have Brexit and a close trade deal with the EU.
I am perfectly happy with Boris Johnson’s deal now that the backstop is gone. Yes, it’s not perfect but it is the best we will get unless you want another extension. Also it is brexit… To say it isn’t is silly and it’s why the remain camp hate it so much because it is brexit.
Also TBP policy on immigration is not anti immigration it is in fact pro immigration. Indeed, they are all about a points based immigration system in which the needs of businesses will determine who can come to the UK.
HGV industry claims there is a shortage of drivers? UK sends distress call out for HGV drivers…
They are not anti-immigration they just want to control it.
I did consider voting for Boris but he is just going to campaign on the Brexit issue.
Once that is done in January then what? He will have 5 years to do what he wants. No doubt cutting a lot of public services.
So I come back to Jeremy.
Like I said before I want reduced student fees.
I want affordable housing.
I want the tyranny of the landlords to end.
I want the railways to be renationalised. This should of happened years ago but the tories are so stubbon they would rather renationise railways every few years once a firm has run it into the ground only to do it up and sell it again.
IT’S crazy. We still maintain the railways. But the private firms do a ■■■■ poor job and collect all the profit and when it runs into issues we have to pay for it.
So basically I am voting without a regard to Brexit. I want it done but I care about the social issues more.
So hear is the man that supports workers rights .spread that on social media. The man is a foll.
We seem to have the choices between different mainstream parties who offer “spending without paying” (Cons, Labour) OR “Saving money without saying what those savings will be spent on” (Libdems/Brexit Party")
I’ve now heard it said of BOTH Libdems and Brexit Party that “They are only one-policy parties… Why vote for either of them?”
The Libdems seem to think that cancelling Brexit outright will raise 50billion. These “savings” will be the amount of EU “membership subscriptions” for the period 13th December 2019 until 31st December 2020 (11billion) PLUS the £39billion - that would not be paid as a consequence of revoking article 50 as of 13th December, presumably the moment Jo Swinson walks through the door of number 10…
So, the 50billion consists of “money we didn’t waste” - Right?
This assumes of course that the current cabinet HAS the 39billion at this time from any “War Chest” built up by outgoing Phillip Hammond whilst he was chancellor…
Hardly a foregone conclusion, or the Tories would have been boasting about the 39billion they now WON’T be paying as part of Boris’ “Oven-Ready” Deal - right?
I suspect the Tories HAVE no such “War Chest”, and in fact any such “divorce bill” will end up being paid gradually over the “transition period”, meaning that in some aspects - Jo Swinson DOES have a point there - IF she knows for sure that such further payments WILL in some way be made as part of the withdrawal agreement.
… She seems to forget however that “cancelling Brexit” - doesn’t stick that money straight back into the UK’s pocket… Far from it! The “Subscription” £11billion - would now be paid ANYWAY, and whilst the £39billion wouldl no longer be paid over the next year - it WILL be paid - with more on top - by the end of the next parliament - simply as “further subscriptions, because we carried on paying the membership fee, ongoingly…”
So No actual extra money for Britain in all that then. Just some double-counting of money we’re supposed to currently have at the ready, but I suspect we actually DON’T have - as Javid is already talking about borrowing as much “new money” as Labour - and spending it on rather similar stuff to boot!
So that’s the Libdems, Conservatives, and Labour - that are all going to end up borrowing rather more for any actual POSTIVE spending they might all intend.
What’s different about Brexit Party’s “Clean Break” notion then?
Put simply, we should cease paying the subscription at the earliest opportunity, RATHER than just wait until a free trade agreement is completed, which the EU will of course make sure is booted down the road every time - so we never quite get to the end of the period where “our subscriptions finish”…
Brexit Party - don’t intend to have this “ongoingly paying” period known as the “Transition Period”.
Their simple idea is that we leave by ceasing those payments FIRST, at which point there is no longer any incentive for the EU negotiators to “delay” putting any post-Brexit trade arrangements together - since they no longer get money from any such “Delay”. In fact, they’d put together a fresh arrangement rather promptly, since the EU makes a profit on it’s trade with the UK - and you’d want more months of that ongoing profit with “no gaps” than not - Right?
Not so for the UK, as we lose money (have a negative balance of trade) with the EU. If we had “Gaps” in that arrangement, the UK would actually “lose less” over however long that gap period took, where we’d already ceased the regular subscriptions to the EU - but had yet to re-implement the losing trade arrangements for the EU’s profit - rather than the UK’s.
Thus, the UK effectively gains from “nothing happening” - and the tables are totally turned on the EU - by simply ceasing the current arrangements FIRST, and then re-negotiating any fresh arrangements from the outside.
Imagine you were a problem gambler who wanted to save to put down a deposit to buy a house one day…
Your bookmaker says that "whilst you make up your mind, you’re very welcome to come into the betting shop every day, where we will severely restrict your bets on sports events, - leaving you do to your wages in a few minutes every time you come in - and end up playing the FOBTs that are ever-present… The Bookmaker even charges an admission fee to enter the shop - but gives you that money back as a “Free Bet” that can be spent on FOBTs - rather than a Sports event “Accumulator” style bet… Thus, that “freebie” soon goes down the toilet along with any other money in your pocket, during this “illusion” that you are somehow “getting something for free” here, such as a “rebate”… It is money that you are obliged to lose then and there - rather than take out as cash. See what happens if you try and qualify for a bookmaker’s “freebie” - and then walk out with that cash, “un-lost” in the betting shop!
A well-meaning friend comes along one day, and says "Why don’t you just refuse to pay the admission fee, and stop going into the shop outright■■? - You’d be better off by whatever amount you know you’d lose there each and every day - If I say it is fifty quid a day, or £350 per week - then only YOU know if I’m right or wrong on the estimation of that figure… But it is a large sum of money LOST rather than “gained” - nonetheless - right?
Then Punter has the choice: Does he listen to his well-meaning mate who’s suggested action would make you £50 better off each and every day you “didn’t go into the shop at all”?
Or is he “obliged” to go into the shop and do his wages - simply because he’s never known any other way? Habit? Addiction? “Illusion of Winning”?
This “Illusion of Winning” is when you get “Freebies” and occasionally a “winning return” which might be say, “winning £100” sometimes… You’ve doubled your money!!! Nope. You have Not. You lost £50 per day on the first five days of this week, and won £100 on a saturday day six of the week. You’re still £150 DOWN on the week alas, but £100 up “on the day”… It’s all relative. You didn’t and won’t ever quite manange to “get your money back”, but rather instead “don’t lose in a straight line”…
When you talk about what your mate said to the Bookmaker - your Bookmaker says “Don’t listen to him - imagine how miserable you’d feel every time you think you might have won IF you’d come into my shop and played… but didn’t because you took your mate’s advice!!” (Project fear) Don’t listen to him… Is he a millionaire winner? Is he a bookmaker who knows you better? Will you ever win anything in your life again if you gave up coming into my shop forever? Thus, the bookmaker presents a “■■■■■■■■ to cease being a problem gambler” argument there.
“Your mate lies to you - they say you’ll be £350pw better off if you don’t come into my shop and blow £50 per day, 7 days per week!! In fact, you won £100 on saturday last - so he LIED LIED LIED to you! You would have WON! Now stop being silly, and keep on coming into my shop! UNLESS your mate is actually going to GIVE you HISSSS cash to stop coming into my shop of course?
They can’t though! Because they HAVE no cash. The “Give up Gambling Dividend” does NOT exist!!!”
To see “proof” that there is such a thing as the “Brexit Dividend” - you need to ask a Brexiteer. You won’t get any definition out of a Remainer, nor institution that benefits from Remaining - how can you??
In a nutshell “The Brexit Dividend” which the Libdems have now tried to hijack without actually getting THEIR hands on it, thinking that it is somehow a “lump sum” - is actually an ongoing cashflow saving, rather than something you can put your finger on.
Only the (soon, former) losing punter knows that he’s been doing £50 a day during his lunch hour - for as long as he can remember… Around 4 decades or so…
Another friend, who works in a Bank - tells him that if he’d NOT lost £50 a day over the past ONE decade - he could easily have put down a deposit for a house by now…
“A Householder” - if only I hadn’t had blown it all, and listened to my friend’s advice! - I don’t even need to “win” to get my hands on that money - just not LOSE it any longer."
There it is.
“Money you didn’t lose” - is worth as much as “money you won, but all-too-often DON’T”
“Money you didn’t lose” - is a reward for every day you “don’t donk it away in the betting shop”.
Ask anyone who “never bets” if they are better-off (work mate, earning the same as you for this example…) than someone who bets…
If you were ever an overall NET winner - then you’d have enough to give up work outright - right■■?
Brexit Party’s “Clean Break” is that you stop wasting the money by cancelling all payments to the EU that are NOT directly for goods and services AT ONCE.
The EU make their future profits ONLY from the UK-EU trade, which benefits them far more than us. THEY will sign such a fresh arrangement quickly IF ceasing it “loses them money” otherwise.
They WON’T be in a hurry to sign it - if we’re paying them millions per week “just to be a member of their trading club”.
…Not to mention “being bossed around by their rules and laws” - which is another subject ENTIRELY that we’d be better off “outside” as well…
Why pay money for EU courts to find in some criminal’s favour, because “their rights were infringed”?
…but there - we come onto the difference between a “Right Wing Brexit” and a “Left Wing” one.
Brexit Party - have rather shifted to the LEFT since their inception from former UKIP’s policies, more leaning towards “against immigration” rather than “let’s stop wasting our cash on Liberal Law and Order vanity projects”…
Brexit Party’s policy is "We’ll get you the cash - YOU decide what you then spent it on by choosing the government that Brexit Party need to go into coalition with.
Brexit Party - don’t dictate that you MUST spend the Brexit Dividend on NHS spending, More Police, or more roadworks - for example…
Want to know your MP’s voting record?
Juddian:
Want to know your MP’s voting record?
As scored on points by an openly Pro Brexit group, according to their own methods and based on their opinion of what is or isnt in the UKs best interest.
Minor point, but the coloured-bar graphics are bizarre: Aldous 9% bar is visibly longer than Bacon 41% bar ?
parliament.uk/site-informat … visions/#D
Easier to use is:
theyworkforyou.com/
Type name of MP into box,
Click on their link then you can go to
Overview…Voting Record…Recent Votes.
Here is one for a certain B Johnson
"Voted against a more proportional system for electing MPs
0 votes for, 1 vote against, 1 absence, between 2015–2016
Almost always voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability
0 votes for, 7 votes against, 1 absence, between 2015–2016
Voted for fewer MPs in the House of Commons
1 vote for, 0 votes against, 1 absence, in 2016
Generally voted against university tuition fees
3 votes for, 4 votes against, 3 absences, between 2004–2017
Almost always voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits
19 votes for, 0 votes against, 4 absences, between 2015–2016
Consistently voted for reducing central government funding of local government
4 votes for, 0 votes against, between 2016–2019
We have lots more plain English analysis of Boris Johnson’s voting record on issues like health, welfare, taxation and more. Visit Boris Johnson’s full vote analysis page for more."
You won’t find any defence of Johnson from me, old dead in a ditch proved to be just another born to rule toff who can’t be trusted straight off the production line at Eton and the Bullingdon refinishing workshops.
I’m not terribly worried about voting history on any other subject, the one i linked to is indeed the Bruges Group, and i’m only interested in whether we leave the EU in any meaningful way, or whether we don’t, as such any others interested in actually holding their MP’s to account for failing to honour their word re leaving the EU, can have a poke nose, make up their own minds, and vote accordingly.
Unless we leave the EU, there isn’t much point in voting for any of the parties anyway, if we do leave the EU we can once again get back to electing MP’s who have to take responsibility for running the country instead of passing the buck due to impotence under the EU master.
This coming election is like no other before, at last the contempt a large number of MPs have for the electorate and their opinions is displayed for all to see, and it’s proved beyond all doubt the present political system is unfit for purpose.
I hope no one is taking any notice of the electioneering now going on, all smiles promises to listen in future and tons of money to be harvested from the money trees of Croydon when only a short time ago we were branded all sorts of ists phobes and swivel eyed loons for failing to vote as we were told…we have learned the truth over the last 3.5 years, don’t let the next 3 weeks of lies spin bribes with your own money influence you in any way, vote with your heart and for the good of the country not for your wallet.
Juddian:
You won’t find any defence of Johnson from me, old dead in a ditch proved to be just another born to rule toff who can’t be trusted straight off the production line at Eton and the Bullingdon refinishing workshops.I’m not terribly worried about voting history on any other subject, the one i linked to is indeed the Bruges Group, and i’m only interested in whether we leave the EU in any meaningful way, or whether we don’t, as such any others interested in actually holding their MP’s to account for failing to honour their word re leaving the EU, can have a poke nose, make up their own minds, and vote accordingly.
Unless we leave the EU, there isn’t much point in voting for any of the parties anyway, if we do leave the EU we can once again get back to electing MP’s who have to take responsibility for running the country instead of passing the buck due to impotence under the EU master.This coming election is like no other before, at last the contempt a large number of MPs have for the electorate and their opinions is displayed for all to see, and it’s proved beyond all doubt the present political system is unfit for purpose.
I hope no one is taking any notice of the electioneering now going on, all smiles promises to listen in future and tons of money to be harvested from the money trees of Croydon when only a short time ago we were branded all sorts of ists phobes and swivel eyed loons for failing to vote as we were told…we have learned the truth over the last 3.5 years, don’t let the next 3 weeks of lies spin bribes with your own money influence you in any way, vote with your heart and for the good of the country not for your wallet.
All perfectly clear, mate.
You`ve been consistent and straightforward in your viewpoint. Not one I agree with, but Hey-Ho. 
Well, the news is in, TBP isn’t going to contest ANY Conservative held seats 
Oh well saves me trudging up the polling station, i now have no one to vote for, but we have one independent standing so will have a look see what he’s about.
That more or less guarantees a Cons majority, what Johnson will do with it remains to be seen,l looks like we’ll get Brino after all.
Juddian:
That more or less guarantees a Cons majority,
Brave Man! Not many professional commentators would go that far, would they?
Franglais:
Juddian:
That more or less guarantees a Cons majority,Brave Man! Not many professional commentators would go that far, would they?
being about as far as possible from a pro commentator i wouldn’t know.
This does have many ramifications though, Labour strongholds can now claim that TBP is a Con stooge party, it isn’t true but in this post truth country will carry weight.
The other unknown is the Tories may be under the illusion that with no BP candidate they will pick up TBP voters, i wouldn’t be betting me shirt on that, this bod isn’t playing ball for one.
The paradox is that “If the Tories are now guaranteed to get a majority” then clearly Brexit Party were NOT going to put Jezzbolah into Number 10 - but just make him loss by less than 100 seats…
Boris - is long odds-on to “win the most seats” - and has been ever since he became leader of the Conservatives.
Boris doesn’t want Farage in Parliament AT ALL, the same as Cameron and May.
THAT is why Brexit Party continue to be “evens” to win ZERO seats.
Farage gets “warned off” standing in either Tory-held seats, which makes at least some degree of sense…
…But then gets warned off standing in all those seats that “The Tories might win, if BP were not splitting the vote” - which includes a bunch of seats where it is a Remainer Tory standing FFS…
…Boris is only prepared to “stand aside” in return for WHICH seats was it again? "Those where Brexit Party are in 2nd in the polls, Labour/Libdem are the incumbent, and the Tories are nowhere.
I’m buggered if I can “Name That Seat” - because I don’t think it comes in the “Plural” - put it that way!
The nearest I can get to “Brexit Party in 2nd” is trying to compare it to those seats where Farage’s UKIP “came second” in the 2015 election - not the 2017 one!!
If anything is “Stale Data” - then it is THAT of course!
…Then you’ve got the issue of Labour Leavers who were thinking of voting Brexit Party to “oust a Tory” - only to be stood aside by Farage… Now they’ll just be going back to Corbyn’s Labour, the same as around 3.5m voters (by the looks of it) migrated from UKIP in 2015 to Jezza in 2017…
I wonder if there are any arguments for “Knock-a-long” voting here?
A Tory Brexiteer - now votes Boris for a soft Brexit, or Brexit Party for a proper one.
A Labour Brexiteer - was about to vote BP - but now will go back to Labour, because the PM isn’t acting like a Brexiteer.
A Libdem Brexiteer - shouldn’t exist by this point.
A Plaid Brexiteer - has their party apparently now for Remain, and they might now swing to Brexit Party IF they can get past some Tory Wetwipe that shouldn’t even be standing in this seat they cannot win - but does so out of Boris’ spite for Farage’s Brexit Party… “No seats is one too many” one suspects…
Then we come to the real unicorns of the piece:
SNP Brexiteers… They’ve had a command for 4 years now - and Sturgeon & co have got WHAT done for the typical SNP voter in all that time?
Since more Scots voted Leave than voted for the SNP - it wouldn’t take much of a swing out of this party - to completely bring THEM down to “Zippo Seats”…
Do the seats then get carved up between Labour, Libdem, Cons, and maybe even Brexit Party??
The final “Unicorn” is the Hard Labour-voting Remainer.
Not so happy with Corbyn’s take on Remain - so they might just swing behind Swinson’s Libdems…
SO for all this talk about FARAGE splitting the BREXIT vote - I would suggest that the no less than FIVE Remainer parties - might be splitting their OWN vote a bit more than just the two ways eh?
The number of seats - most hard to predict then - the SNP.
I’m investigating a bet along those lines - but no one seems to be measuring up their chances.
I might have top “Pseudo Punt” it - that is, bet on the Libdems to LOSE a load of seats, perhaps ending in single figures like where Cleggy took them in 2015?
For those who have yet to trust Boris Johnson (like me!) - My concern is that should Brexit Party end up on zero seats, then the Tories, with a small, large, or NO majority - might just not be able to rise up above their emboldened Remainers once again, leaving Brexit as being a “Boris’ Poorest-but-one Deal” - or Cancel Brexit by a straight forward Free Vote on Revoking article 50…
Boris is likely to lose his dummy, if his deal gets rejected, and the rest of the house STILL won’t let a WTO go through at any time in our lifetimes, alas… 
If this election really IS the “2nd referendum” - then watch Remainers argue that "Since 17.4m didn’t vote for BP this time around, we can safely declare the Brexit Vote from 2016 to be STALE as well as Null and Void. Since there is no political will for any 2nd referendum, Brexit is hereby cancelled, and we’re in power for five long years before you can do anything about it…
Oops! Interest rates are rising sharply - Must be all that new borrowing we’re doing with no means now to pay it back…
Oh Look! There’s that long-awaited Property Crash you lefties have been waiting for!
Sorry about the continuing Austerity btw. That was only to end if Labour were snapping at our heels, but now we have an emasculated Labour Party with “Sir” Keir Stammer in charge…
The Swamp Creatures - we don’t even know who most of them ever were. But they’ve well and truly shafted us ALL.
Juddian:
Well, the news is in, TBP isn’t going to contest ANY Conservative held seatsOh well saves me trudging up the polling station, i now have no one to vote for, but we have one independent standing so will have a look see what he’s about.
That more or less guarantees a Cons majority, what Johnson will do with it remains to be seen,l looks like we’ll get Brino after all.
Who would have thought it.You know the same Farage who said trust May and trashed Batten.Not voting ( except for English Democrats ) makes the most sense regardless of Farage’s bs.Voting in this sham is just the same a saying we are happy to forget all about the Referendum result and to put the same bunch of traitors back in Parliament to finish the job which Camoron and all the rest before him started.Why give the zb’s the credibility.
Winseer:
adam277:
Few decades ago being left and euro-sceptic was common place.
Some of the most prominent leftists did not want anything to do with the EU.If people once believed it then they can believe it again. Hear Hear!
People who voted to leave the EU are not racist like the media make out. This is the biggest lie going on at the moment. I also think it is far more damaging then any lie the leave campaign did. Because it has divided our society.The left need reminding that their most prominent members in the past were euro-sceptic and that this is not a bad thing.
Tony Benn for example he completely disagreed with the idea of the EU.
You will struggle to get more socialist than this guy.Here is a quote from wiki from him about the EU.
Later in his diary, (25 October 1977) Benn wrote that he “loathed” the EEC; he claimed it was “bureaucratic and centralised” and “of course it is really dominated by Germany. All the Common Market countries except the UK have been occupied by Germany, and they have this mixed feeling of hatred and subservience towards the Germans”.
It’s just a shame that his son is nothing like him.
Yes indeed. I shared Benn senior’s dream of “nationalizing the banks”. As I’ve said before on here - I may be Right Wing on “Law and Order” - but I’m rather Left Wing on finance.
I also subscribe to the opinion that Denis Healey was the “Best Prime Minster that Labour never had”.
Remind us how old you were when Healey was Chancellor.You do know he was one of the rabid Labour Europhiles and closer to Blair than Benn.The rest is history in him and Callaghan and Jenkins between them handing the country over to the 4th Reich and effectively smashing the trade Union movement and then handing the country over to Thatcher to finish the job.On that note no Shore was the best PM we never had and arguably Heffer as Chancellor with Benn in his element doing trade and industry.On that note I’m guessing this is the type of Labour Politician that Adam 227 was referring to certainly not traitor closet Tory Healey.
youtube.com/watch?v=PdPfcq5K8FY
Not this Tory zb.'Things ‘we’ don’t like.Yeah right like cuts in public spending to pay for our EU net contributions and wage restraint for the already low paid.While prices went through the roof and jobs were transferred to Europe.
Juddian:
Well, the news is in, TBP isn’t going to contest ANY Conservative held seatsOh well saves me trudging up the polling station, i now have no one to vote for, but we have one independent standing so will have a look see what he’s about.
That more or less guarantees a Cons majority, what Johnson will do with it remains to be seen,l looks like we’ll get Brino after all.
Well, you know what to do, haul them all over the coals and vote Corbyn.
Rjan:
Juddian:
Well, the news is in, TBP isn’t going to contest ANY Conservative held seatsOh well saves me trudging up the polling station, i now have no one to vote for, but we have one independent standing so will have a look see what he’s about.
That more or less guarantees a Cons majority, what Johnson will do with it remains to be seen,l looks like we’ll get Brino after all.
Well, you know what to do, haul them all over the coals and vote Corbyn.
I’m almost tempted to do that, Corbyn doesn’t worry me and nor should he bother anyone else from the genuine working class who haven’t had a party to vote for since the BNP dissolved, Islington Labour having long ago deserted and now despise the real working people of the country.
This election is going to be different, there will i suspect be many upsets in the results which will be nothing like the fake opinion polls are predicting.
People are angry, millions are angry with everyone in parliament save a tiny handful of which as usual Dennis Skinner is reliable, many are angry with each of their own respective parties svae for the liberal democrats which are neither of those things, but ironically are a party telling the truth this time around, usually all of them lie but this time the antiliberal antidemocrats have publicly declared democracy is over if they get elected.
I have news for them the Tories and Labour beat them to it, they crapped from a great height over democracy during the last 3.5 years but lied to the electorate as usual and will continue to lie, libdems are for once honest, weird old world.
TBP voters are really angry, many of us have come to realise that the present system is broken, and we were going to deal it the death blow this election by splitting the system apart with the mother of hung parliaments…we ain’t getting a real Brexit of any of the current parties, we know it, they know it, Farage has upset the real backbone of the country by denying them the chance to hit the tory betrayers in each constituency with a BP vote.
So be it, the gloves will be coming off, something much worse than TBP will rise again, those 17.4 million haven’t vanished into thin air, nor have they been re-educated by the snarling insults from the establishment and elite and their bought media over the last 3 years, what they have done is to entrench that old belligerent Sod 'Em All attitude that the British have off to a fine art, the establishment will in due course reap what they have sown, mea culpa.
Why do you really think the USA elected Trump, similar situation there with out of touch politicians, their snouts in the trough beholden to and kissing the arse of any foreign leader who might be able to do them a bit of good, allowing their industries to be run down destroying the lives of the working (middle as know in the USA) class.
We can’t elect a President, yet, but we can elect a party that might make Trump look a politically correct social democrat by comparison.
These idiot pollsters - don’t seem to realize that they have contradicted their own “predictions” in a self-defeating way at that…
First we get told that “Corbyn is neck and neck with Boris, and Boris cannot afford to lose a single seat - or Brexit is lost”
…Then it’s "Corbyn is gonna lose 100 seats - but if Boris fails to get a majority, Brexit is lost"
…Then it’s “Brexit Party are evens to get zero seats (actually true at the bookies…) Therefore Brexit Party MUST stand aside in all those seats they cannot win - so the Tories can win them, OR Corbyn is going to win them instead, and subject us to an eternity of redness…”
So Farage, gives an inch - offers the Tories to stand down in Tory-held seats - ALL of them, not just the marginals - and including all the Remainer Tories of course…
BORIS then asks for Brexit Party to stand down in all the seats the Tories are 2nd in as well…
…Then no doubt “All the seats where Tories are NOwhere.”…
Then what?
The election comes, and one of two things will happen:
Either Boris gets a majority, or it is a hung parliament with the Tories having the most seats.
Either way, Boris stays on as PM for the next five years. How does he get to be “popular at Westminster” and “Unite the Commons”?
Easy. Tell the world that since 17.4m votes have “disappeared” at this election that was “100% about Brexit” - the only conclusion that can be drawn from Brexit Party winning no seats as anticipated - is that the 2016 mandate is now STALE and Boris will call a vote to revoke article 50, that passes by over 400 votes on the spot.
Boris - safe for five years, with the blessings of the house, the EU, the Deep State everywhere, and of course the Remainers.
Brexiteers? - Go home and die (of old age).
We’ve pulled the biggest stroke on you for generations - and you mugs fell for it, led by Farage himself who had us by the balls with his 600 candidate “threat” - only to release, and then get mown down by the professionals at Westminster.
Even if Farage continues to stand in “only Labour/Libdem seats” - there is a good chance that Labour Leavers, having seen Farage do such a big favour for Big Boris - they now will NOT support Brexit Party AFTER all, as “They cannot now win a majority” let alone “stop the hated Tories from winning one” What’s the point? Labour Brexiteers - will relucantly vote for Corbyn in the same way long-time Republican voters - relucantly voted for Trump. Note that Corbyn has been playing up for the “Anti-Establishment” vote, rather than the Remainer/Brexiteer vote - meaning he HAS been studying “Trump’s election technique” at least somewhat…
In the end, the people were more scared of Corbyn than they were of Everlasting Austerity (that comes with Remain) or “Losing face on the world stage” that is perceived to come with Brexit".
They tactically refused to vote against the Tories, and ended up with Corbyn AND No Brexit!! A supreme Irony is that Brexit might only have gone done at this late stage by a Brexit Party/LABOUR coalition - BUT now no more - because Brexit Party are heading for the zero seat dustbin, along with Brexit itself…
Boris? - Looks more and more like the “EU’s last line of defence” - by the hour!
With Corbyn in power - we can of course, get ALL of those things except Brexit, which would have paid for a lot of his spending plans quite nicely - but now we’re faced with “Sorry, there’s no money” and McDonnell thinking he can “call in the favour” for Labour bailing out the banks with our cash in 2008…
Stand by for a spike in inflation folks!
The upside is that “soon will be a good time to settle all your outstanding debts on the cheap”.
If you’ve got savings - better expatriate them or spend them - 'cos a house selling for 500k before long - might not even pay for the estate agents fees and stamp duty!
I should point out btw that “Corbyn in Power” - means him carryong on as Leader of the Opposition, who prevents whatever party from getting any decent policies done…
“He who can prevent/destroy a thing - controls a thing.”
To beat Corbyn - Labour must lose net seats at the election. Where are the Tories going to get their seats from to win a majority?
…Doesn’t have to be LABOUR…
“Knockalong Voting”… SNP lose 10 to Labour, Libdems lose 10 to Labour, Libdems take 10 from Conservative, Conservative take 10 from Labour… Brexit party? - Couldn’t go DOWN, but stood to upset the whole house by winning ANY seats from ANYwhere. - Now Safely defused by the swamp monsters… 
Net result? Corbyn +10 (stays as leader of the opposition) Boris - treads water - Remainer parties - weaken, but since Brexit is about to be cancelled, they are going to irrelevence anyways.
Corbyn - only needs to maintain his seat tally to “win” here.
Boris too, as it turns out.
The worst kind of “Hung Parliament” - is the one where the least number of seats - changed hands.
A hiccup rather than an Earthquake then!
Juddian - I hear you.
This TBP “Trouble” you speak of - may well come the moment the next economic downturn comes - which by THAT Point “cannot be blamed upon Brexit” - since Brexit will already have been cancelled, by that point.
Taxes will need to rise, and austerity extended. Regardless of who’s in power, INFLATION would make losers of ANYONE with any cash left in the bank.
People on benefits - will tend to be the ones empowered, but there comes a breaking point where taxpayers just cannot afford to pay their now 50% and rising tax bills - AND put food on the table/pay the Foreign-owned Utility Bills, and cough up ever more for our Foreign Tribute payments, a.k.a our EU contributions that are reaching silly amounts, now that the EU wants to be a bit more aggressive in it’s eastern expansions…
It took Hyper-inflation to drive the former middle classes into the arms of the Brownshirts looking for Scapegoats - anyone who’s somehow managed to NOT “fall down” during this economic downturn that’s coming.
THe valuation of a person - will then be measured by what you can DO rather than what you know, who you know, or the size of your wad.
Sacrifice gains Survival - but Sacrifice - all-too-often - ultimately turns into revenge.
Since “two graves then get dug” - we know in advance whom the winners will be: NEITHER side.
There’s a reason that civilizations like Atlantis - are now doubted that they ever even existed.
The “4000BC” racket - has been a good run - but now the time has come for us to advance - or fall back again.
Without our gadgets and infrastructure - the world doesn’t support 7billion for much longer…
Trying to prevent man-made climate change rather than prepare for natural climate change - doesn’t save anyone, neither.
Juddian:
People are angry, millions are angry with everyone in parliament save a tiny handful of which as usual Dennis Skinner is reliable…
The problem is that Dennis Skinner is a product of when millions of the working class were Labour members and thus had huge influence.
Most people who actually agree with Skinner are looking for any excuse not to join the Labour party to exert that influence once again.