Fuel Prices

[boredwivdrivin]

Carryfast:
I didn’t say oil like other fossil fuels aren’t finite.I said they aren’t finite for the foreseeable future.Which is all that matters.The next stage after that will be for the relevant future generations to deal with not us or even those following us.

we have to agree to disagree on this philosophical question .

im hell bent on leaving our country and planet in a better way then i found it . im never going to agree that we should leave it to our kids to sort out . i can respect your point of view on this but im just fundamentally the opposite .

Carryfast:
How am I supposedly a luddite when I’ve said I’ve got no problems with a renewables fuelled electric and hydrogen based economy ‘if’ you can make it affordable…

it wasnt my intention to be rude to you , but i think change is essential .you know : an idiot is a person who does the same thing over and over and expects a different result .

i see this as a metaphor for our society , we have been thru the wringer with our fossil fuel economy , and if we want a better society we have to do things differently .

While as for your tidal and wind bollox.If we’re really running out of fuel don’t you think it would be quicker and cheaper and more efficient to just utilise the massive under sea water pressures,to compress air,to turn turbines,to produce electricity,that produces the hydrogen that I’d be happy to run a good old fashioned ICE on.

i do think you spend too much time reading about old technologies and not thinking about the alternatives generally . you have consistantly misunderstood the whole science behind kinetic energy . forget wind , ive said i only believe this works as micro generation ie a small 1 on someones house feeding the grid thru smart meters .

read about tidal lagoons , barrages and waves . the system you describe may well work , but current wave systems allow wings floating on surface stacked on direct generation 10 to 15 meters down . producing power 24/7 .

[boredwivdrivin]

Winseer:
It makes sense to use fossile fuels until they become less than plentiful - and THEN move onto expensive renewables.

this doesnt make any sense to me .

the most expensive phase of any production cycle is the initial phase pre scaling up . once we start doing this it will get cheaper and the price will be stable as the raw product ( waves , sun , wind ) is free . the raw product of bio fuels are largely waste or have secondary economic uses .

all these technologies bring employment , and possess enormous opportunities for exports .

Winseer:
“When there’s a gold rush - you don’t rush to join in - you open a shop selling shovels and pickaxes!”

All the time “profit” is the motivator for revolutionary changes - it won’t happen.

umm . i dont agree with this either , but i know what you mean .

with the gold rush analogy , the wealth is buying the land it sits under or shares in mining company BEFORE anyone else !

its the same with renewable energy . the country that embraces this first , and withdraws from oil is the country that will benefit the most !

bill gates didnt wait for someone else to make a user friendly computer language , he did it first and made the most

dyson made the first bagless cleaner and profited the greatest .

eddie stobart made the first general haulage firm with a ‘wholesome brand’ . he made a mint .

and everyone one on heres favourite , henry ford , developed the first car assembly line . he didnt wait for someone else to do it first and take the risk he was wrong .

it could be argued that profit encourages reactionary change : nibbling down the margins , better branding , swallowing up competitors or scaling up production .

All the guys i listed above are DREAMERS !!

its dreams and vision that create revolutionary change , not profit

[winseer]

Winning any nil sum game is NOT wealth creation - it’s wealth transfer.

Bubbles require the over-valuation of finite value assets for example:

When one talks about “investment in the future” - it’s more about saving ones life, livlihood, and lifestyle than about “making a fast buck” - or even making a slow one come to that.

People who built Roads, Bridges, Skyscrapers, Tunnels, etc. often had the holding companies go bust along the way.
Long-term fortunes in the other hand, were not so much those who were in the market first - they were those who could do what the first people did - but with considerably lower overheads so that when the initial bubble burst - the rival firms all went under, and the effecient firm bought up the floundering firms on the way down to expand it’s own empire and grip on the entire industry.

Rockefeller and Carnegie are but two examples of how this “nil sum game” can be turned into “long term wealth creation”.

Real wealth is the type that once made - you cannot lose in a 100 years - literally.
To bust the winners of the early game - you need to render obsolete the entire industry. In the case of Oil - that has yet to happen. In the case of Steel - That’s in progress as we speak, and has been for some time already.

Once the west loses the ability to make steel economically, the next round of wealth creation will be about WHO develops our new industry no longer based on using “steel” for most metal constructions - NOT who’s invested in Chinese and Asian steel outlets, just as the very use of the material so hard entrenched these past 2500 years - could well be about to go obsolete and drop to zero LONG term value.

I see it like the UK Canal systems - built at a time when Railways and decent Roads would soon render them obsolete.

The energy companies of today are dragging their feet in our own progress into a new age - which just prolongs the inevitable. Someone sooner or later is going to come up with a way of making cheap-as-chips energy that both doesn’t need government hands outs (danger of a suit refusing, and the project dies) or “planning permission” as would be the case if say, a huge land area were required to be turned over for the project.

Say, a small building the size of a single office that could generate enough power for the entire 1m+ population city it’s in - would relegate the need for even things like The National Grid. Power to be created locally.

THe money to be made from cheap energy isn’t in selling cheap energy to the masses and replacing their current suppliers - it’s in the new industries that can only start up once energy is practically free!

I would compare this to “space age tech” and “thermoplastics” which saw accelerated development thanks to the Space Programme.
Cheap plastics needs cheap oil. Expensive oil made China pay through the nose for a while, but their plastics industries survived the upspike.
Seconds out - Round Two!

Watch industries that are already planning on a future of cheap energy - before it’s actually dropped in price. THESE are the pioneers of the next “obsoleting” technologies - and will bring the incumbent energy firms down with a bump when they make the breakthrough needed to make the word flesh…

[carryfast]

Winseer:
Winning any nil sum game is NOT wealth creation - it’s wealth transfer.

Bubbles require the over-valuation of finite value assets for example:

When one talks about “investment in the future” - it’s more about saving ones life, livlihood, and lifestyle than about “making a fast buck” - or even making a slow one come to that.

People who built Roads, Bridges, Skyscrapers, Tunnels, etc. often had the holding companies go bust along the way.
Long-term fortunes in the other hand, were not so much those who were in the market first - they were those who could do what the first people did - but with considerably lower overheads so that when the initial bubble burst - the rival firms all went under, and the effecient firm bought up the floundering firms on the way down to expand it’s own empire and grip on the entire industry.

Rockefeller and Carnegie are but two examples of how this “nil sum game” can be turned into “long term wealth creation”.

Real wealth is the type that once made - you cannot lose in a 100 years - literally.
To bust the winners of the early game - you need to render obsolete the entire industry. In the case of Oil - that has yet to happen. In the case of Steel - That’s in progress as we speak, and has been for some time already.

Once the west loses the ability to make steel economically, the next round of wealth creation will be about WHO develops our new industry no longer based on using “steel” for most metal constructions - NOT who’s invested in Chinese and Asian steel outlets, just as the very use of the material so hard entrenched these past 2500 years - could well be about to go obsolete and drop to zero LONG term value.

I see it like the UK Canal systems - built at a time when Railways and decent Roads would soon render them obsolete.

The energy companies of today are dragging their feet in our own progress into a new age - which just prolongs the inevitable. Someone sooner or later is going to come up with a way of making cheap-as-chips energy that both doesn’t need government hands outs (danger of a suit refusing, and the project dies) or “planning permission” as would be the case if say, a huge land area were required to be turned over for the project.

Say, a small building the size of a single office that could generate enough power for the entire 1m+ population city it’s in - would relegate the need for even things like The National Grid. Power to be created locally.

THe money to be made from cheap energy isn’t in selling cheap energy to the masses and replacing their current suppliers - it’s in the new industries that can only start up once energy is practically free!

I would compare this to “space age tech” and “thermoplastics” which saw accelerated development thanks to the Space Programme.
Cheap plastics needs cheap oil. Expensive oil made China pay through the nose for a while, but their plastics industries survived the upspike.
Seconds out - Round Two!

Watch industries that are already planning on a future of cheap energy - before it’s actually dropped in price. THESE are the pioneers of the next “obsoleting” technologies - and will bring the incumbent energy firms down with a bump when they make the breakthrough needed to make the word flesh…

Feel free to explain exactly what will replace iron and steel in the foreseeable future.

As for cheap fuel as I said there’s a limitless air compressor and hence horsepower sitting there in the weight and pressure of seawater that makes up most of the planet.A ‘few’ bits of sealed hollow tubing with a valve at the bottom supported by a rig like a present oil rig for example.Connected to an air driven generator at the top with the output connected to a big water tank like a redundant supertanker should provide a fair bit of cheap hydrogen.But you’ll need some steel to keep it all going when the oil companies realise just how cheap and plentiful that source of energy is.

[winseer]

What are we in nowdays? - Iron age IV?

The next age could well be “Iron Age V” as I think you are suggesting here. In the Bronze age however, - who talked about “The end of this age and the coming of Iron”?

When it did come - the first ones to discover it - were the first ones wiped out by those who knew how to turn it against them. (Assyria vs Hittites)

I suggest that if we say, moved to a Seawater based technology for all our needs - Hydrogen, Oxygen, Halogens, Transition Metals in seawater including Manganese Nodules… The actual building materials would, I think, be strongly based on carbon and silicon - including things like Carbon Fibre, Transition Metal Carbides, and even Silicon Carbide itself on those surfaces facing wear and tear. The expense of getting the transition metals out of the seawater though (too-expensive electricity again!) limits our ability to just get on with further technological development.

Investors want a short-term return on their money. Engineers who attempt to put innovations into practical use - often end up lying to investors about the risks, or not having enough contingencies in place to cover all open ends. Even Brunel saw investors in his own works losing their shirts more than once, whilst others lament the lives and money lost building those great “built to last” civil engineering projects for which he was so celebrated.

We need some visionaries in government.

Even the government CEASING throwing money at bullcrap projects like “Renewables” which, of course, are nothing of the sort - would be less of a hinderance at this point - which is as good as “direct help” one might argue.

(1) Oil Fire power stations are not going to come back into fashion, despite Oil becoming cheap again.
(2) Coal Fire - Ditto - but to an even greater extent, as we have MASSIVE amounts of untapped coal in the ground still.
(3) Gas Fire - Too much reliance upon the former Soviet bloc. In my mind, we should be treating this one as “dirt 101” as far as gweenhouth gathes are concerned.

(4) Nuclear - Great idea, but all the while the majority of people think it blows up or gets cracked open by an earthquake in the next few months - it ain’t gonna happen alas.

(5) Solar - Seems nice - but have you seen the amount of land this is chewing up? - Britain isn’t renowned in the world for having “huge tracts of land” like the Continental nations. This, in my mind makes Solar farms seem a bit extravagant on land use.

(6) Tidal Power - We were told about all this years ago - whatever happened to it on a truly industrial scale? - Too much wear and tear perhaps? Too expensive to set up perhaps?

(7) Hydro Power - The remaining Scottish stronghold on our energy needs. Can’t build 'em where you don’t have any dams though. Why not dam ALL our rivers as part of the Flood Protection works the government should be setting about these days - especially up north?

(8) Geothermal Power - We don’t have the right geography for this.

(9) Refuse Disposal - Yes folks, why not burn more rubbish? We’d be turning that rubbish into Energy and copious amounts of crappy gasses that get scrubbed out - but why are there so few of these places around the country? Incinerator Power Stations. Surely every town should have one? Why don’t we? Solves having to plan over ever more land for landfil as well eh? What goes into a landfill cannot be burned - can surely be recycled too, so it pushes more efficiency upon us whilst it’s at it.

[carryfast]

Realistically it’s all about what is affordable and convenient.In which case it’s economic suicide to leave what’s left of fossil fuel reserves in the ground and add to inflation in an attempt to force it out of use.While if the alternatives are cheaper and as convenient the change will take place by natural selection.

You can probably count out nuclear on all those counts.As for whether refuse incineration is ‘convenient’ that’s probably more an issue of stopping the idea that a small over populated Island like this one needs a lot more immigration.

[winseer]

If the population gets too high - food becomes of top importance. Should we ever run out - we now have a whole bunch of people not reticent to do us some serious harm to survive.
Looking at the amounts of land being given over to Solar farms these days - I would not be surprised in the slightest if “distribution disruption” becomes a serious concern for the future.

I’d worry more about that than being nuked by Russia - put it that way.

[boredwivdrivin]

Winseer:
Investors want a short-term return on their money. Engineers who attempt to put innovations into practical use - often end up lying to investors about the risks, or not having enough contingencies in place to cover all open ends. Even Brunel saw investors in his own works losing their shirts more than once, whilst others lament the lives and money lost building those great “built to last” civil engineering projects for which he was so celebrated.

We need some visionaries in government.

we can only dream what Brunel , or even his father , would have accomplished if the government had just backed him . he spent half his life raising cash and dealing with his bankruptcies . clifton suspension bridge took 112 years from first funds being raised til completion .

if it was left only to private capital it probably would still be being built .

lesson : state needs to make initial investments and take the risks

private capital will follow .

Winseer:
Even the government CEASING throwing money at bullcrap projects like “Renewables” which, of course, are nothing of the sort - would be less of a hinderance at this point - which is as good as “direct help” one might argue.

not sure what you are saying . direct help is needed ! altho outlawed by EU the french do it , the jerry do it , the spanish do it …

we should do it .

Winseer:
(4) Nuclear - Great idea, but all the while the majority of people think it blows up or gets cracked open by an earthquake in the next few months - it ain’t gonna happen alas.

fission is yesterdays technology . they still havent finalised costs of decommissioning or waste . in fact i get the feeling that its a state secret !
investing a £100Bn in fusion makes great sense . we have the 1 in oxford . the jerry and japs have better ones . it really needs state investment to see if this baby flies or flops . who ever cracks this will be laughing . well worth a punt .

Winseer:
(5) Solar - Seems nice - but have you seen the amount of land this is chewing up? - Britain isn’t renowned in the world for having “huge tracts of land” like the Continental nations. This, in my mind makes Solar farms seem a bit extravagant on land use.

micro takes up a couple of meters of your roof for a hot water system . why dont all new houses have them ? ive built a rudimentary 1 when i lived off grid . some waste wood , hose pipe , black paint and a sheet of glass . is amazing how much hot water you can generate .

PV is a different matter . needs rare earth crystals to change light into volts . but fine for micro especially if you lucky enough to have a smart meter . why hasnt everyone got a smartmeter ■■

Winseer:
(6) Tidal Power - We were told about all this years ago - whatever happened to it on a truly industrial scale? - Too much wear and tear perhaps? Too expensive to set up perhaps?

severn scheme was scuppered by environmentalists !! the 2nd severn bridge was meant to be a barrage with a road on top but tories wouldnt back it because of disruption to migrating fish up the estuary . madness , the fish would have evolved to go elsewhere .

Winseer:
(7) Hydro Power - The remaining Scottish stronghold on our energy needs. Can’t build 'em where you don’t have any dams though. Why not dam ALL our rivers as part of the Flood Protection works the government should be setting about these days - especially up north?

dont forget wales ! these are a great way to STORE energy . pump water uphill when you have plenty and drop it when you dont . there are plenty of places in south west where existing reservoirs could be converted . is also possible on a very micro scale . again needs smart meters to exploit properly .

and dont forget waves . cheap and powerful .

Winseer:
(9) Refuse Disposal - Yes folks, why not burn more rubbish? We’d be turning that rubbish into Energy and copious amounts of crappy gasses that get scrubbed out - but why are there so few of these places around the country? Incinerator Power Stations. Surely every town should have one? Why don’t we? Solves having to plan over ever more land for landfil as well eh? What goes into a landfill cannot be burned - can surely be recycled too, so it pushes more efficiency upon us whilst it’s at it.

theres lots more to be done in this area . why dont farmers trap methane from cattle sheds ? bio digesters (kitchen waste )?: theres a new 1 on seabank avonmouth , great idea . straw burning ? : theres 1 in norfolk , burn some hemp and reeds in there too . every town should , as winseer suggests , have 1 . but bloody nimbys moan .

why the government cant just invest in our futures i dont understand . especially when unlimited funds are available for banks and quantative easing .

as you rightly say , politicians need some imagination .

independence from europe wont mean much if we got to go cap in hand to every meglomaniac in the world for energy , and pay them wot ever they demand .

carryfast says its inflationary ! so what ■■ inflation is only bad if you have wealth , it erodes my debts . and how inflationary might oil be over the next 20 years ■■

Winseer:
If the population gets too high - food becomes of top importance.

food and water only becomes a problem if you dont have enoughenergy !!

ie you can grow fruits and green veg food soiless if you can get the combined fertilisers . CF wiki links a few pages back says these can be gotten out of coal . if this is true we only need energy to clean the water and drive the pumps . land would only be needed for roots veg . out of season tomatoes and salads have been grown like this in holland for decades

[carryfast]

Winseer:
If the population gets too high - food becomes of top importance. Should we ever run out - we now have a whole bunch of people not reticent to do us some serious harm to survive.
Looking at the amounts of land being given over to Solar farms these days - I would not be surprised in the slightest if “distribution disruption” becomes a serious concern for the future.

I’d worry more about that than being nuked by Russia - put it that way.

+1.

The solar panels also seem to me to remove light from the ground so I’m also guessing the ground underneath will become a sterile un fertile load of dust.If we ever decide that farm land should be used for farming not a pointless experiment to appease the global warmist believers.

[carryfast]

boredwivdrivin:

Winseer:
Investors want a short-term return on their money. Engineers who attempt to put innovations into practical use - often end up lying to investors about the risks, or not having enough contingencies in place to cover all open ends. Even Brunel saw investors in his own works losing their shirts more than once, whilst others lament the lives and money lost building those great “built to last” civil engineering projects for which he was so celebrated.

We need some visionaries in government.

we can only dream what Brunel , or even his father , would have accomplished if the government had just backed him . he spent half his life raising cash and dealing with his bankruptcies . clifton suspension bridge took 112 years from first funds being raised til completion .

if it was left only to private capital it probably would still be being built .

lesson : state needs to make initial investments and take the risks

private capital will follow .

Winseer:
Even the government CEASING throwing money at bullcrap projects like “Renewables” which, of course, are nothing of the sort - would be less of a hinderance at this point - which is as good as “direct help” one might argue.

not sure what you are saying . direct help is needed ! altho outlawed by EU the french do it , the jerry do it , the spanish do it …

we should do it .

Winseer:
(4) Nuclear - Great idea, but all the while the majority of people think it blows up or gets cracked open by an earthquake in the next few months - it ain’t gonna happen alas.

fission is yesterdays technology . they still havent finalised costs of decommissioning or waste . in fact i get the feeling that its a state secret !
investing a £100Bn in fusion makes great sense . we have the 1 in oxford . the jerry and japs have better ones . it really needs state investment to see if this baby flies or flops . who ever cracks this will be laughing . well worth a punt .

Winseer:
(5) Solar - Seems nice - but have you seen the amount of land this is chewing up? - Britain isn’t renowned in the world for having “huge tracts of land” like the Continental nations. This, in my mind makes Solar farms seem a bit extravagant on land use.

micro takes up a couple of meters of your roof for a hot water system . why dont all new houses have them ? ive built a rudimentary 1 when i lived off grid . some waste wood , hose pipe , black paint and a sheet of glass . is amazing how much hot water you can generate .

PV is a different matter . needs rare earth crystals to change light into volts . but fine for micro especially if you lucky enough to have a smart meter . why hasnt everyone got a smartmeter ■■

Winseer:
(6) Tidal Power - We were told about all this years ago - whatever happened to it on a truly industrial scale? - Too much wear and tear perhaps? Too expensive to set up perhaps?

severn scheme was scuppered by environmentalists !! the 2nd severn bridge was meant to be a barrage with a road on top but tories wouldnt back it because of disruption to migrating fish up the estuary . madness , the fish would have evolved to go elsewhere .

Winseer:
(7) Hydro Power - The remaining Scottish stronghold on our energy needs. Can’t build 'em where you don’t have any dams though. Why not dam ALL our rivers as part of the Flood Protection works the government should be setting about these days - especially up north?

dont forget wales ! these are a great way to STORE energy . pump water uphill when you have plenty and drop it when you dont . there are plenty of places in south west where existing reservoirs could be converted . is also possible on a very micro scale . again needs smart meters to exploit properly .

and dont forget waves . cheap and powerful .

Winseer:
(9) Refuse Disposal - Yes folks, why not burn more rubbish? We’d be turning that rubbish into Energy and copious amounts of crappy gasses that get scrubbed out - but why are there so few of these places around the country? Incinerator Power Stations. Surely every town should have one? Why don’t we? Solves having to plan over ever more land for landfil as well eh? What goes into a landfill cannot be burned - can surely be recycled too, so it pushes more efficiency upon us whilst it’s at it.

theres lots more to be done in this area . why dont farmers trap methane from cattle sheds ? bio digesters (kitchen waste )?: theres a new 1 on seabank avonmouth , great idea . straw burning ? : theres 1 in norfolk , burn some hemp and reeds in there too . every town should , as winseer suggests , have 1 . but bloody nimbys moan .

why the government cant just invest in our futures i dont understand . especially when unlimited funds are available for banks and quantative easing .

as you rightly say , politicians need some imagination .

independence from europe wont mean much if we got to go cap in hand to every meglomaniac in the world for energy , and pay them wot ever they demand .

carryfast says its inflationary ! so what ■■ inflation is only bad if you have wealth , it erodes my debts . and how inflationary might oil be over the next 20 years ■■

Winseer:
If the population gets too high - food becomes of top importance.

food and water only becomes a problem if you dont have enoughenergy !!

ie you can grow fruits and green veg food soiless if you can get the combined fertilisers . CF wiki links a few pages back says these can be gotten out of coal . if this is true we only need energy to clean the water and drive the pumps . land would only be needed for roots veg . out of season tomatoes and salads have been grown like this in holland for decades

Some how I don’t like the sound of this strange world in which everything is artificially terra formed to provide for the Socialists dreams to move the over populated third world here.It’s like something out of one of those nightmare sci fi movies set in the future.

As for using inflation in a something for nothing attempt to effectively steal the money of investors to cover the debts of borrowers.That will only work if you impose rules to stop those investors taking their money out and spending it themselves.In which case good luck with finding more mugs to keep providing the cash.

[winseer]

Yes. The biggest anti-socialist argument right now has got to be the “Let nature take it’s course, and don’t bloody well interfere with what NATURE has in store for the human animal.”

If Planet Earth has chosen various tracts of humanity for a cull or total wipeout - then are we really wise to stand in the way of that decision that’s already been made at a higher level than even the EU corridors of power?

Even if you don’t believe in the “something else” that kills you - that doesn’t stop you from dying.
Try not believing or understanding Newton’s theory of gravity - and see where walking off a cliff gets you.

[boredwivdrivin]

Winseer:
Yes. The biggest anti-socialist argument right now has got to be the “Let nature take it’s course, and don’t bloody well interfere with what NATURE has in store for the human animal.”

If Planet Earth has chosen various tracts of humanity for a cull or total wipeout - then are we really wise to stand in the way of that decision that’s already been made at a higher level than even the EU corridors of power?

erm this is unconnected to your arguments above !!

at no point have you mentioned over population ! if you had i would have agreed with you . when we leave EU and boot them out we will have 10 million + less people to feed and fuel ( including the scots)

if you make long arguments you cant walk toddle off on flights of fancy when someone answers them !!

i would happily shoot the first 3 billion people i pass on way to work !

interestingly overpopulation was the green parties no1 enemy for years , until the liberals took over .

now its seen as a human right to have as many kids as you can .

thank mother nature that SOCIALIST china is only large country to have anti population policies !!! its the free market nutters , liberals and religionists who demand unlimited populations …

NOT SOCIALISTS !!

[boredwivdrivin]

"Carryfast:
+1.

The solar panels also seem to me to remove light from the ground so I’m also guessing the ground underneath will become a sterile un fertile load of dust.If we ever decide that farm land should be used for farming not a pointless experiment to appease the global warmist believers.

what soil do you have on your roof carryfast ■■

and if lack of light led to soil becoming ‘unfertile’ how would soil have survived 3 inches down ■■

or in rain forest ?

its nutrients and biodiversity that protect your soil . the biodiversity ranges from grasses to hold your soil together , to worms to churn it . panning led to topsoils being washed away across america , caused by ploughing in monoculture .

remember soiless systems only replace out of season stuff , like the dutch salad in your fridge now . they can be grown vertically on the side of buildings , or on your roof !.the limits are power , nutrients and imagination .

[winseer]

boredwivdrivin:

Winseer:
Yes. The biggest anti-socialist argument right now has got to be the “Let nature take it’s course, and don’t bloody well interfere with what NATURE has in store for the human animal.”

If Planet Earth has chosen various tracts of humanity for a cull or total wipeout - then are we really wise to stand in the way of that decision that’s already been made at a higher level than even the EU corridors of power?

erm this is unconnected to your arguments above !!

at no point have you mentioned over population ! if you had i would have agreed with you . when we leave EU and boot them out we will have 10 million + less people to feed and fuel ( including the scots)

if you make long arguments you cant walk toddle off on flights of fancy when someone answers them !!

i would happily shoot the first 3 billion people i pass on way to work !

interestingly overpopulation was the green parties no1 enemy for years , until the liberals took over .

now its seen as a human right to have as many kids as you can .

thank mother nature that SOCIALIST china is only large country to have anti population policies !!! its the free market nutters , liberals and religionists who demand unlimited populations …

NOT SOCIALISTS !!

Erm. Was I talking about “overpopulation”? - I think I was referring more to “local population bubbles”.
Proper economic migrants should go to the mansion of the nearest millionaire for work.
The law protects the wealthy landowners from that kind of hassle though, and you never hear anything in the media about “illegal immigrants badly beaten after breaking into Ivor Lott’s country estate and setting up camp there”

There would be no shortages of anything - if the re-distribution of opportunities kept up with distribution of energy, food, & wealth.

Go to somewhere like Egypt - and the energy is cheap, the food is plentiful - but there are no jobs, and therefore no wealth. Especially now the tourist industry is on it’s knees… Egyptians are not starving or going without power - but they’re now dirt poor in terms of what we would consider a “comfortable life” in the UK.

All the issues are connected in the way the establishment lets or doesn’t let those burdening it take the ■■■■ or not.

Energy would be cheap if we produced cheap energy - from Nuclear. That was ALWAYS the best option for our day and age.
Jobs would be plentiful if we didn’t have so many extra people competing for them. Limiting immigration was always the BEST option for our day and age.
Wealth would be more widespread - if we didn’t have to pay our hard earned over in taxes to back up people who’ve paid nothing in, be they workshy or new arrivals.
By job-lotting such people on a par with the GENUINE needy however (injured & disabled) - we miss the point entirely of a crack-down on those who take the ■■■■. Someone who’s lost a leg isn’t taking the ■■■■, nor someone who’s blind. It’s the establishment that glues them together with Illegal Immigrants and Layabouts so that we can’t condemn one lot in need of condemnation - without looking heartless against the other group that we’ve actually got nothing against. Who’s fault was that? - Government or MEDIA? Political correctness is as bad to politicians as it is to the public - so I suggest that the Chattering classes and Media have a lot to answer for by taking us down this daft road we are now on.

Fuel prices are even dictating policy to the current government with the energy firms now bleating about “hardship”. FFS. Making “only” £800m this year instead of the £4-5bn pa over the past decade in my mind is NOT hardship at all! The government should not lift a finger to help any energy company, and rap the knuckles of those attempting to keep retail prices where they were a year ago - despite the prices dropping a significant amount since. The only faction that should get some serious government help - is HMRC - who need greatly expanding to extract taxes from the serious number of extra people that are supposed to be living and working in the UK these days - both individuals and companies alike.

[winseer]

Intersting moves in the Bond markets this year so far… Bearing in mind the US have already raised interest rates…

The money seems to be saying that OUR first interest rate hike has been put off well into next year now at least…

Don’t take out any fixed rate mortgage products - and save yourself some serious money then!

Buying cheap fuel doesn’t save you anywhere near as much money as paying less on your mortgage…

Take a view on the markets that cost you money every month… Stick with it. Be rewarded day by day for backing a horse that’s already proverbally jumped the last in front!

[winseer]

This is the Tbond market TODAY. This market is turning into so much of a runaway now, that the implcations are as follows:

(1) An interest rate CUT is now more likely than a rise.
(2) The CUT will be sooner rather than later
(3) The CUT might well go “negative interest rates” as are already the case in Switzerland.

Spend your money - or pay the banks to keep it.

There’s too much money sloshing around in bank accounts now - and too little of it being spent.
The only borrower out there who keeps on paying the interest due - is the Government.

[carryfast]

Winseer:
(1) An interest rate CUT is now more likely than a rise.
(2) The CUT will be sooner rather than later
(3) The CUT might well go “negative interest rates” as are already the case in Switzerland.

Spend your money - or pay the banks to keep it.

There’s too much money sloshing around in bank accounts now - and too little of it being spent.
The only borrower out there who keeps on paying the interest due - is the Government.

We’ve got low interest rates being used as a type of in work benefits because of the effects of the global free market and free labour markets.Which are all about minimising wage rates by exporting jobs to or importing labour from low wage economies.Then they are saying spend what money reserves we have left in the form of savings to spend on propping up the same collapsing economy,that the same money is also being used for,to prop it up in the form of cheap capital for under paid borrowers.What could possibly go wrong.

IE building society and bank savers etc remove their capital and spend it on more cheap imports etc etc.Then where are the low paid workers going to get their cheap capital to borrow and how do we replace the lost now spent capital much of which will just add to the trade deficit and resulting national debt.

[winseer]

Low Interest rates benefit the most those most in hock with mortgages - ie BTL landlords.

They help the least those people who have low cash and low incomes.

I can’t see in any way why this can be called an “In Work” benefit. Those getting the benefit will never need to work again at this rate… Just pyramid the property into an empire…

Buy a house with a mortgage: Rent it out for £900pcm. Use that income to get a second mortgage - buy another property, rent it out for £900pcm… Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.
All this does is buy a few extra votes in Tory wards that don’t need the majority pushed up from 11,000 to 12,000… Money poorly spent in my mind.

[chicane]

My guess is ceramics will replace a lot of the iron and steel.

[carryfast]

Winseer:
Low Interest rates benefit the most those most in hock with mortgages - ie BTL landlords.

They help the least those people who have low cash and low incomes.

I can’t see in any way why this can be called an “In Work” benefit. Those getting the benefit will never need to work again at this rate… Just pyramid the property into an empire…

Buy a house with a mortgage: Rent it out for £900pcm. Use that income to get a second mortgage - buy another property, rent it out for £900pcm… Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.
All this does is buy a few extra votes in Tory wards that don’t need the majority pushed up from 11,000 to 12,000… Money poorly spent in my mind.

BTL mortgages are only a specialised sector of the mortgage market as opposed to low interest rates subsidising the low wages of those in the private house buyer market.

As for BTL the obvious risk being any break in rental incomes for whatever reason leads to repossession of the whole portfolio.With the high probability of it being flogged off cheap by the lender at auction to the type of BTL investors that don’t rely on loans secured on the property.Thereby leaving the original mortgage holder owing the resulting shortfall/debt to the lender.In which case the larger that portfolio the larger that shortfall and debt.