Peter Smythe:
Maybe a “trial drive” once you’ve got provisional CE will put that one to bed.Pete
Awesome Pete! 
I had 28 hours training at £36 per hour from Lancaster Training Services, new trucks man & autos test on own site (very big advantage) so approx £1,100 i had assessment which i think is good for trainee and school, as what if i was absolutely ■■■■ driving on kerbs couldn’t get out of 1st gear, knocked all cones over on reverse? or what if you had been driving 7.5 tn for years and needed 5-6hrs training?
I have a lwb van so clipped 1 kerb in training, mastered gears after a few hours, so really just a case of getting up to spec with m s m etc to test spec.
Could i have passed with 14 hours? yes i think so. passed anyway.
My point is i think most schools have a cost they need to cover for each trainee. business is business, if my school was £60 ph i think i would have been told 16hrs as the same cost is covered. And yes money made so no need to make money on retest, which is good.
I saw it as i got twice the training for the same price from a recommended school. split over 8hrs but prob 7 hours training minus dinner and brew breaks,
Yes 14hrs gets a lot of people through but the more training i think the better as you will be on your own after passing.
Had assesment for class 1 and told 3.5 days so i think £989 (1 day less) but again what if i couldn’t get to grips with the extra length headbord etc. it now makes class 2 look like a piece of ■■■■. Failed class 1 as went over give way 3 metres after traffic lights changed to green 2 mins from back to base, switched off, would have failed if it was a bicycle test.
Went to a new test centre Bredbury, its in the 3 worst pass rate in country and passed with 6hrs, using a small trailer spent 4hrs trying to reverse the ■■■■■■ thing i would refuse to drive one in real life!! my old school couldn’t fit me in until Jan so took a pot shot and got it.
Done a few agency shifts now and still find it scarey,
Yes i think assessments should be taken if poss, even if you have one locally just so you know its for you and your not totally ■■■■.
On another quick point i think the reverse for class 1 is bollox, why not have a reverse into a parking bay which you need to do on day 1 and every day after not some stupid reverse you will never use. (prob because test centre’s don’t have the space, but i’m sure if they are all arctic trained they should know you need to be able to reverse into a bay on day 1)
Good luck anyway with your training.
Evil8Beezle:
I want all trainers to be good, and therefore all rouges to be out of business!
So I’ll always suggest a candidate to do their homework, as a good trainer has nothing to fear by that!I’d also go for a beer with skorpio, probably have a good crack as we are both strong characters!
I agree on the 1st paragraph, but doubt it will ever happen, too many people want too much for too little,we can but hope tho’
2nd paragraph, any time you see me I’ll go for a beer with you, no problem. As I said previously, you can’t miss my truck, S&K with my name plate over the adr plate ( I don’t do adr)
When I’m in UK usually try to park within walking distance of “civilization”, Red Lion used to be a good bet, but I only speak 3 languages and none of them are EE.
Peter Smythe:
For years we have operated on a course of 14 hours (plus test) - with much success as many forum members will testify.The option of an assessment is available for those who want it to put their mind at rest. But with candidates coming from all over the UK this is not often taken up.
The difficulty with assessments, and I’ve mentioned this before, is that the trainer can see what you’re doing now and can compare that with what has to be achieved to pass the test. But there is no way of anyone knowing a) how quickly someone will learn and b) how much they will retain. But the assessment is a great way of putting someone at ease.
In some trainers’ cases the assessment is purely a selling tool eg “look how well you drive this truck” and “consider how comfortable you’re feeling” etc etc.
But, given the general appalling standards of training/training vehicles on offer, the candidate will often be well advised to visit as a minimum to try and judge the feel for what is on offer. The OP has done this and seems happy with what has been seen.
In response to ROG, I would respectfully point out that in the last month we’ve had a clean sheet on a 2 day course and a 1 fault pass on the same course.
Incidentally, the “clean sheet” tot up for 2015 exceeds 30. Not bad for 14 hour courses!! Some trainers don’t achieve that in a lifetime - no exaggeration.
Pete
The assessment drive is NOT a selling tool!!..
It works both ways giving the candidate to get a feel of what to expect and the training provider to ascertain the ability of the candidate so a course duration can be set. The candidate also benefits from the assessment so puts them in good shape for there first training day.
My average course is 16 hours including test but a assessment drive can reduce this to a 12 hour course if the candidate has exceptional ability.
Last year every candidate who trained with me passed except one.
Us trainers have our own ways but I do take exception when other trainers are critical of others.
Paul
My comments weren’t aimed at you, Paul, as I think you probably know.
I still maintain it’s impossible to judge exactly how long it will take someone to achieve test standard. Most trainers get it right by making sure there’s plenty of time. The unscrupulous trainers will underestimate to get the customer on their books. And then proceed to extract more and more money for additional training/retests. I make a point of working at cost in the event of retest being required. No need to make more profit from the customer.
I can count on one hand the number of non-passes this year. And that’s out of approx. 750 tests. So not too bad!
Pete
Peter Smythe:
My comments weren’t aimed at you, Paul, as I think you probably know.I still maintain it’s impossible to judge exactly how long it will take someone to achieve test standard. Most trainers get it right by making sure there’s plenty of time. The unscrupulous trainers will underestimate to get the customer on their books. And then proceed to extract more and more money for additional training/retests. I make a point of working at cost in the event of retest being required. No need to make more profit from the customer.
I can count on one hand the number of non-passes this year. And that’s out of approx. 750 tests. So not too bad!
Pete
Don’t worry I know your comments weren’t aimed at me.
I do strongly believe an assessment drive is important. In half an hour I can see how the candidate adapts to instruction and can schedule a course to suit their ability. It also makes the first day easier for the candidate as they’ve had a insight off what to expect ie: Truck/Instructor and training base location.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t tend to do assessments for CE as I can build up a picture of the candidates ability by asking a few questions on the phone.
Paul
I can count on one hand the number of non-passes this year. And that’s out of approx. 750 tests. So not too bad!
Pete
[/quote]
Wow about 98% pass rate that is impressive
A “non-pass” is someone who has had their training and not yet passed their test. The other passes are not all first time (I wish!!) but should encourage folks who are wondering if the goal can be achieved. No way do I claim 98% pass rate!
Hope this helps, Pete
I’ve said this before, and I’ll no doubt say it again. As far as I’m concerned, it’s best to do your class 1 as close to your class 2, as your head will be in “sponge” (learning) mode and the bad habits won’t have set in.
However I did my tests when it had to be done in a manual (if that’s what you wanted to drive in the real world) so I didn’t want to have to re-learn range change etc.
As far as I’m concerned, rigids and artics (and I’ve driven both professionally, and not for the odd day or 2 - probably done more miles in them than I’ve ever driven in a car) are entirely different animals, and no amount of class 2 driving is going to make you any better in an artic.
And the only way I’d suggest that W&D is the way forward, would be, say, that you were coming into a family business, and that’s what you ran, and had no intention of ever driving anything else. Look how many you see of each out in the real world.
£0.02 spent
I did an assessment drive for class 2, purely and simply because I couldn’t wait to get behind the wheel of an HGV, and didn’t do one for class 1 but that was only because I’d have had to take a day off work for it. Would have if I could have.
I’ve got another assesment drive with PSTT tomorrow, I know the staff and the trucks but I still want to decide if W+D is the one for me as I’ve already had 14 hours+test in an artic but failed it. Also, they have moved yards so I want to see how I handle the new way in and out.
jaybpool sounds like you got a fantastic deal there. I had a look at their website after reading your post and it does look really good. The range of prices per hour is indeed remarkable. Coming into this fresh it’s totally bewildering to make sense of it all even with the help of the Internet.
PaulNowak:
I’ve said this before, and I’ll no doubt say it again. As far as I’m concerned, it’s best to do your class 1 as close to your class 2, as your head will be in “sponge” (learning) mode and the bad habits won’t have set in.However I did my tests when it had to be done in a manual (if that’s what you wanted to drive in the real world) so I didn’t want to have to re-learn range change etc.
As far as I’m concerned, rigids and artics (and I’ve driven both professionally, and not for the odd day or 2 - probably done more miles in them than I’ve ever driven in a car) are entirely different animals, and no amount of class 2 driving is going to make you any better in an artic.
And the only way I’d suggest that W&D is the way forward, would be, say, that you were coming into a family business, and that’s what you ran, and had no intention of ever driving anything else. Look how many you see of each out in the real world.
£0.02 spent
I did an assessment drive for class 2, purely and simply because I couldn’t wait to get behind the wheel of an HGV, and didn’t do one for class 1 but that was only because I’d have had to take a day off work for it. Would have if I could have.
Great info - so useful to know - thanks.
Radar19:
I’ve got another assesment drive with PSTT tomorrow, I know the staff and the trucks but I still want to decide if W+D is the one for me as I’ve already had 14 hours+test in an artic but failed it. Also, they have moved yards so I want to see how I handle the new way in and out.
I think I may very well end up doing that myself. I get that they are rare on the road, but I also am strung out financially and really need to max my chances of passing.
Radar19:
I’ve got another assesment drive with PSTT tomorrow, I know the staff and the trucks but I still want to decide if W+D is the one for me as I’ve already had 14 hours+test in an artic but failed it. Also, they have moved yards so I want to see how I handle the new way in and out.
Have a good one Radar, remember to take change for the coffee machine! 
I was a nervous wreck when I trained, nothing to do with my training or trainers, just the way I am, don’t like tests of any sort. Worked myself up into a frenzy, trainer even handed me his notes after I’d passed my class 1, they said I was a natural, and my only obstacle was my fear of failing. I think I was also a bit fearful because I had budgeted a certain amount of my redundancy from my last job for HGV training, if I’d have failed my class 2, there would have been no money for my class 1, and if I’d failed that first time, there’d have been no re-test funds.
I now tramp full time, and earn over a grand a month (take home, and yes that includes night out money) than I did for mauling my testicles off doing multidrop class 2 handball work.
All very well Paul.
But you have dreadful hair and are homeless.
Lancaster Training Services as do PSTT train out of own yard so reverse is so much easier as you have trained all the time on the same reverse pad you will test in. I hear what people say about 8hrs a day is a lot and yes at first it is but after a day it gets easier as all the info has started to sink in, also if you start to get tired as i did go back to yard have a brew and have an hour reversing i would say i did 4hrs at least revering at Lancs Training, which gave me a lot of confidence on my first few shifts on my own even though i still ■■■■ myself and know i will for at least 6-12 months.
£36 is very good value, twice the time in a cab as most others can only be good, very good trainers and good test routes, anyone within 1 hr away from Lancster i would say train there and anyone 1hr away from PSTT i would say train there.
My very limited experience driving as Evil8beezle says is so different and harder than class 2, my mate said class 1 was easier than 2 but hes been driving for years and i think he forgot what it was like.
To train in W&D and then drive arctics is crazy in my eyes and i pity anyone who doe’s sat in an arctic for your first shift is hard enough after training in one, so to be sat there with no training ■■■■ me a nightmare.
I paid for an assessment in class 2 but i got my assessment in class 1 free which was an hours drive and reverse. Yes maybe class 1 i could have missed and just trained but the school needs to get a rough idea what you are like with the extra length headboard etc.
Yes a lot depends on the school you attend, but imagine the pass rate if everyone had 20-30hrs training it would get the ones that maybe failed due to nerves etc through 1st time, who knows but if possible and money willing the more training the better. But i think from a business point of view schools need to keep training at around £900 - £1300 a course or people would just go elsewhere if quoted 2K+
Getting back to the point i think assessments if possible should be taken, as ethically the small percentage of people who have no hope of passing in 14hrs pay upfront and fail have just wasted money and time which an assessment could have prevented and i don’t think anyone can argue that even though its a small percentage. So if the school offers an assessment that’s all they can do, but should do one if plausible for the candidate to attend.
jaybpool:
My very limited experience driving as Evil8beezle says is so different and harder than class 2, my mate said class 1 was easier than 2 but hes been driving for years and i think he forgot what it was like.
Not sure what you’re agreeing with me about there mate!
My opinion about getting some experience on Class 2 first is more about being FULLY used to driving a bigger, wider and heavier vehicle.
As when you don’t need to think about that, you can concentrate more easily on everything else for your Class 1.
But everyone is different, and some may not need that…
eagerbeaver:
All very well Paul.But you have dreadful hair and are homeless.
I am folically gifted and my home is immaculate.
£36 is very good value
On the face of it, it’s a bargain. Now work it out. You pay £36 per hour for 8 hours a day. Take out lunch and tea breaks, and the day is likely to be under 7 hours. Now divide that between the 2 drivers (both of whom are paying their £36 per hour) and it aint that great.
I’m not saying it’s expensive either; just maybe not the outright bargain it might seem to be.
2:1 training is a brilliant business model but IMO is nowhere near as productive as 1:1. But that’s a discussion that’s been done to death several times over.
It’s up to each candidate to make their choices.
Pete
Peter Smythe:
£36 is very good value
On the face of it, it’s a bargain. Now work it out. You pay £36 per hour for 8 hours a day. Take out lunch and tea breaks, and the day is likely to be under 7 hours. Now divide that between the 2 drivers (both of whom are paying their £36 per hour) and it aint that great.
I’m not saying it’s expensive either; just maybe not the outright bargain it might seem to be.
2:1 training is a brilliant business model but IMO is nowhere near as productive as 1:1. But that’s a discussion that’s been done to death several times over.
It’s up to each candidate to make their choices.
Pete
Nope 1:1 training. very cheap god knows how they do it great school and free tea, coffee. i also know you have a good reputation in the industry
Sorry evil8beezle, it was paulnowak who made the comment.
If that’s 1:1 I have no idea how they stay in business! That is way below my operating cost so I’m baffled.
Pete