One of our trucks got stopped yesterday by two gendarmes on route from Lorient to St Pol at Carhaix and the didgi card was downloaded which resulted in 9 infringements the result was a fine of 3400 euros, the driver tried to explain that 6 of the offences (insuficiant daily rests) were ferry movements which the gendarm would not accept, the three other offences that were committed were exceeding 4.5 driving by a few minutes x2 and one day 10 hour 6 mins driving.
This driver does it by the book and obviously the gandarme had not got a clue on the ferry move rules , i would still be there now argueing 
.the head should have also been downloaded.
The question is can a driver on the roadside request someone higher up that nows the rules or has he to accept what the junior officer says and pay the fine.
Also what is the way forward for our man to fight this wrong doing.
Even the gendarme admitted the serious offences were the insuficiant rests caused by the ferry moves the other three offences were not serious.
And as i say i would still be arguing now
I know the Condoms have a reputation for intransigence but I was once stopped at the foot of Mont Blanc and they wanted to fine me 900FF because I hadn’t filled in the “kilometres driven” field at the bottom of any of my previous charts.
I insisted that you didn’t need to, they insisted you did, but I dug my heels in and asked them to check with a higher authority, which they did.
So ten minutes later following a phone call they made I was on my way- you DO NOT need to fill in the bottom line of a tacho chart.
I have had other similar situations in France too. It helps that I speak fairly good French, or at least that I make the effort to, but I am always polite and friendly when I am stopped and I know that many drivers fail the “attitude test” from the moment the conversation starts.
If he was stopped in 22 it might pay to get in touch with the Prefecture at St Brieuc on 02 96 62 44 22
Any chance that we have some on
on the site who is working for a
French firm, If so the could get a
copy of the French version of
drivers rules and regulations,
The same for Spain,Italy etc
and get them posted here in the sticky
of the EURO POST links, Then people
would be able to down load and carry a copy
of the regs around which is in various languages
and might just save problems,
@Klunk/■■■■■■■■ if the driver has used the
system correctly and it shows that the ferry
was used, get the card printed out and
get the firms lawyer to take the case before
a court and fight for the reimbursement of
any monies payed out as fines that are illegal.
AS for the other offences, according to the rules he
has exceeded the time allowed and with the digi tacho
WE can no longer get away with such offences, even if it
is so neglible, You will find this will happen in other
countrys as well, SO it will pay to ensure that you
do not go over your time at all.
The digital laws are meant to be the same in all the member states signed upto the EC directive.
In the past when i used to drive down to turkey, all the member states used to see it as a money raising exercise. Poland was quite a sharp place to go as well, they would threaten hand cuffs for trying to remove the card your self !!
Unless they’ve changed the procedure I thought the ‘fine’ was actually a deposit as only the French courts can actually convict and fine people.
In which case a court date will be set to hear this case - I suggest that professional help is sought if you want to contest the charge.
If you don’t do anything the case will be heard in court and my guess is guilt will be proven and a fine levied that exactly matches the amount the condoms relieved the driver of at them time.
yes I agree that but,
with a say a english–
–italian copy of the rules,
You will be in a position to explain
yourside of the debate better and
this may help you save money and
time as well,
The rules are the same all over
the EU however if you can not
speak with the officer in his language
then you are at a disadvantage, so this
might just help you get out of trouble.
Ski:
Unless they’ve changed the procedure I thought the ‘fine’ was actually a deposit as only the French courts can actually convict and fine people.In which case a court date will be set to hear this case - I suggest that professional help is sought if you want to contest the charge.
If you don’t do anything the case will be heard in court and my guess is guilt will be proven and a fine levied that exactly matches the amount the condoms relieved the driver of at them time.
Wrong the Gendarmes will give you A “” Procee verbal “” which is an on the spot fine. I know of many drivers that have been stopped at St Omer peage, heading home, with a "problemmmm on ze disk “” next thing they have been driven to the nearest cashpoint to get cash to pay the fine. Also know of drivers that have given the GD’s a hard time and they left them in St Omer town to make their own way back to the truck at the peage, once they got the cash.
I don’t have the french rules to hand, but the UK and EC rules are exactly the same. our driver cards and trucks are downloaded using a French system which unfortunately only speaks French.
The infringements are exactly the same, just that they are written in a foreign language.
Providing the ferry mode was used correctly then a trip to court is unavoidable if you want to save the day.
We have a contract with a Portuguese company called Gesaco who actually arrange payment of all fines throughout Europe, with all fines they automatically register an appeal and in very many cases are successful with the appeal and get the money back.
klunk/■■■■■■■■
…the driver tried to explain that 6 of the offences (insuficiant daily rests) were ferry movements which the gendarm would not accept,…This driver does it by the book and obviously the gandarme had not got a clue on the ferry move rules
Not being funny but are you sure the driver knows the rules on interrupted daily rest? Many drivers do not know the correct use of interrupted daily rest and while they think they have done it correctly they haven’t. Either the 11-hour rest has gone over the 24-hour period from when they started work or they didn’t take the full11 hours rest + the movements. If they don’t allow for the movements they take less than 11 hours.
Not having a dig but I have seen you ask questions about using the interrupted daily rest option on here a few times and you haven’t been using it correctly on those occasions and as you both work for the same firm it makes me wonder.
Remember when using the interrupted daily rest option and making use of both movements allowed, and depending on the duration of those movements, a driver cannot work much more than 12 - 12.5 hours that day. If, on any of the days they have nicked him for, the time between him starting work and beginning his rest period plus the duration of the movement(s) totals more than 13 hours he has indeed had insufficient daily rest and he will have no grounds to appeal the fines.
Let me get this right, if I do a 15 hour day, and park up at a ferry port for 6 or 7 hours, I can’t then interrupt my rest to get on the boat and off it 4 hours sailing later?
The way I saw it, park up 7 hours, get on boat, parked for 4 more hours on boat, get off boat with fresh day’s hours… That’s 11 hours parked up, plus the movements, and ferry mode selected on the boat.
allikat:
Let me get this right, if I do a 15 hour day, and park up at a ferry port for 6 or 7 hours, I can’t then interrupt my rest to get on the boat and off it 4 hours sailing later?The way I saw it, park up 7 hours, get on boat, parked for 4 more hours on boat, get off boat with fresh day’s hours… That’s 11 hours parked up, plus the movements, and ferry mode selected on the boat.
I would say in that case when you arrive at the port you cannot board the ferry until you have taken 9 hours rest.
A 15 hour day prevents you from having 11 hours off whether it is interupted or not
Thanks for the help on this subject we are are getting a french haulage company that we work with to advise us on the correct procedure on the court case when we get the paper work through from the french and the truck back to download the head.
Coffeeholic said
Not being funny but are you sure the driver knows the rules on interrupted daily rest? Many drivers do not know the correct use of interrupted daily rest and while they think they have done it correctly they haven’t. Either the 11-hour rest has gone over the 24-hour period from when they started work or they didn’t take the full11 hours rest + the movements. If they don’t allow for the movements they take less than 11 hours.
Not having a dig but I have seen you ask questions about using the interrupted daily rest option on here a few times and you haven’t been using it correctly on those occasions and as you both work for the same firm it makes me wonder
No problem on the funnys or the digs coffeeholic i always value your inputs on the rules and topics on the forum i know the rules on the ferry moves are not as simple as they look and some weeks on this run we can have 3 or 4 ferry moves as i have said we,ll have to wait till the truck and drivers back to get the full readouts, the drivers card info downloaded on our tachomaster program looks as if he is well inside the limits regarding fitting it into the 24 hr day.
The truck that is doing this run is not doing many hrs eg ,
The yard (Annan) to Portsmouth sat nite Start 1600 parked by 0100 7.5 hours driving,
Ferry move onto the boat at 0810 then drive straight off the ferry at 1430 and drive to Lorient to tip on arrival then up to St Pol and parked by 2400, thats 6.5 hrs drive time.
Load lunchtime with veg then to Ouistreham for the night boat to Portsmouth 4.5 hrs driving, then a ferry move at 2215 (sometimes get 9 off on this boat)
Off the ferry at 0700 do a drop in Evesham then back to yard thats 8.5 hours driving and back in the yard by 1700 hrs.
While the truck tips Scotland the driver had 24 hrs plus at home
He left again on the same run at 1800 on Wed night 7.5 hrs driving and parked by 0230,
So ferrymove at 0800 and run strait of the ferry at 1430 to Lorient and park on the bay for a morning tip 4.5 hrs driving and parked by 1930 ,
Friday started at 0700 tip and wash out then run the 2 hours to St Pol to load veg for Evesham and Scotland, he was stopped at Carhaix on this run.
Load then catch the Roscof Plymouth ferry and Saturday tip Evesham on the way to the yard finished by 1800 and 9 hrs driving.
Then another 24 plus off and do another round trip and be back thursday evening for long break and catch up to start again on the Saturday night
Sorry to go on a bit but as you can see there are no big hr days or big spreadovers on this run.
I have been stopped by French vosa twice while doing these runs and the man accepted my insufficient rest due to the ferry moves after i explained them,
We do basically do 3 round trips a fortnight on the Brittanny fish.
klunk/■■■■■■■■
No problem on the funnys or the digs coffeeholic i always value your inputs on the rules and topics on the forum i know the rules on the ferry moves are not as simple as they look and some weeks on this run we can have 3 or 4 ferry moves as i have said we,ll have to wait till the truck and drivers back to get the full readouts, the drivers card info downloaded on our tachomaster program looks as if he is well inside the limits regarding fitting it into the 24 hr day.
The truck that is doing this run is not doing many hrs eg ,
The yard (Annan) to Portsmouth sat nite Start 1600 parked by 0100 7.5 hours driving,
Ferry move onto the boat at 0810 then drive straight off the ferry at 1430 and drive to Lorient to tip on arrival then up to St Pol and parked by 2400, thats 6.5 hrs drive time.
Load lunchtime with veg then to Ouistreham for the night boat to Portsmouth 4.5 hrs driving, then a ferry move at 2215 (sometimes get 9 off on this boat)
Off the ferry at 0700 do a drop in Evesham then back to yard thats 8.5 hours driving and back in the yard by 1700 hrs.
While the truck tips Scotland the driver had 24 hrs plus at home
He left again on the same run at 1800 on Wed night 7.5 hrs driving and parked by 0230,
So ferrymove at 0800 and run strait of the ferry at 1430 to Lorient and park on the bay for a morning tip 4.5 hrs driving and parked by 1930 ,
Friday started at 0700 tip and wash out then run the 2 hours to St Pol to load veg for Evesham and Scotland, he was stopped at Carhaix on this run.
Load then catch the Roscof Plymouth ferry and Saturday tip Evesham on the way to the yard finished by 1800 and 9 hrs driving.
Then another 24 plus off and do another round trip and be back thursday evening for long break and catch up to start again on the Saturday night
Sorry to go on a bit but as you can see there are no big hr days or big spreadovers on this run.
I have been stopped by French vosa twice while doing these runs and the man accepted my insufficient rest due to the ferry moves after i explained them,
We do basically do 3 round trips a fortnight on the Brittanny fish.
Based on that I think an appeal should succeed, he doesn’t seem to have done anything wrong.
allikat:
Let me get this right, if I do a 15 hour day, and park up at a ferry port for 6 or 7 hours, I can’t then interrupt my rest to get on the boat and off it 4 hours sailing later?The way I saw it, park up 7 hours, get on boat, parked for 4 more hours on boat, get off boat with fresh day’s hours… That’s 11 hours parked up, plus the movements, and ferry mode selected on the boat.
Your way:- 15 hours work + 11 hours rest + movement = 26+ hours
Not legal, it all must fit into 24 hours, the 24 hours which began when you resumed work after a rest period. The option to interrupt the rest period to use a ferry or train doesn’t remove the normal requirements for a daily rest period.
As the normal requirement is for the rest period to fall within the 24-hour period you cannot work more than 13 hours and take an 11 hour break, work 13 hours and 1 minute and you are on a reduced rest period, regardless of how much rest you actually take. Also, as this rest will be interrupted and you would need time for the movements you could realistically only do around 12.5 hours before beginning your rest period. That would give you 12.5 hours work + 30 minutes movements + 11 hours rest = 24 hours and would be legal.