ETS:
This Davie man speaks for the truck driver! I agree 100%. Waiting on a bay is POA at best no way you can take a proper break. For the purpose of ‘‘6 hours WTD’’ maaaaaybe but I would NOT consider it a proper rest period especially if there’s a sign at the entrance/gatehouse that reads ‘‘NO BREAK ON BAY!!’’
It’s perfectly legal to take a break on a bay watching for that green light, so long as you are doing nothing that is considered “work”, which sat in your drivers seat is not. The more important issue and question is whether putting it on break while on a bay is beneficial to “you” as the driver within your working day.
Plenty of yards now make drivers on bays - sit in the passeger seat whilst being tipped, even if they have handed their keys in.
“Taking breaks on bays” is still pretty much “Not allowed”, at least “Officially”…
Then again “Parking on service roads” ends up being a “Broken Rule” all the time, because drivers are not allowed to take breaks on bays…
I’ll be the first to admit that for “Needs Must” purposes, I’ll take a quick 15 minute WTD break whereever I can get away with parking for 15 minutes, since I’m sick to death of jobsworth acting managers hauling me across the coals one day because “I didn’t take a break when I should have”, and the next “Why did you take that break you didn’t need to take, use OUR staff restaraunt, and book off 30 minutes later than you otherwise would have done?” as if to say my reasonable welfare in the workplace - is a crime for me to seek?
We’ve now got them all saying it’s fine to have a break whilst sat in there cab on a bay , last month we had the same ones kicking off because they wernt allowed to stay in there cab when tipping
I guess Tesco etc lost the argument !!
switchlogic:
I think this particular law catches out the most people, the difference between break and rest. Davie starts off saying I’m speaking [zb], which I often am but not in this case, then changes tack when I prove what I said to him was accurate and instead decided to try and make recuperation the issue
Any other made up laws you hear often?
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We’ll you’ll go far , starting out on a new career & within days your falling out with drivers , jumped up little hitler springs to mind
I’ve been on loads of cpc courses & all the blokes doing the courses have been fine , they knew the golden rule , don’t upset the drivers , know which side your bread is buttered on , you obviously haven’t learnt but no doubt you’ll get put in your place & you’ll either learn ( I doubt it ) or you’ll get binned by the people who run the courses
dozy:
We’ve now got them all saying it’s fine to have a break whilst sat in there cab on a bay , last month we had the same ones kicking off because they wernt allowed to stay in there cab when tipping
I guess Tesco etc lost the argument !!
Is it not the same thing doze?
I prefer to sit in my cab whilst getting tipped, if I decide to put it on break or not is up to me,.so I don’t really get where you are coming from tbh mate.
dozy:
We’ve now got them all saying it’s fine to have a break whilst sat in there cab on a bay , last month we had the same ones kicking off because they wernt allowed to stay in there cab when tipping
I guess Tesco etc lost the argument !!
Is it not the same thing doze?
I prefer to sit in my cab whilst getting tipped, if I decide to put it on break or not is up to me,.so I don’t really get where you are coming from tbh mate.
I’m more confused than you rob , did you not all kick off last month about not being able to stay in your cabs at Tesco etc ( they’ve changed the rules since covid ) ? Now your all saying we stick it on break when we’re in our cabs , or do you mean whilst in waiting room ?
Thing is Luke I know it ain’t against the rules to take (or in my case book) a break on a bay, but maybe it should be.
To be pedantic you ARE technically still ‘working’ if it involves watching for a green light.
I know you ain’t sat with your eyes glued to it (apart from the no time to spare teararse crew of course ) but I mean you can’t have the nap for instance which you would maybe have on a ‘proper’ break.
So therefore the amount of fatigue you could have relieved in that potential nap you could have had on the bay, goes towards the amount of tiredness you still feel after you have set back off on the road…if I’ve explained that one clearly.
I know it sounds a bit petty and over the top, but so are a lot of the ■■■■ tacho rules,.so why is this one not the rule when you consider it is or could be a driver fatigue issue.
Yeh ok, I know the answer is book the ‘break’ on the bay for the sake of the tacho, then take a proper break later as I usually do,.but some firms will deduct wages for 2 breaks.
I’ve had many an argument with my TM on this as I will not have a break on a bay. Sorry but getting bounced about with the forklift going on and off and listening to the racket is not a break. Plus every now and then they shout on you for some problem or another to do with the load or paperwork.
You may or may not be correct Luke about the legislation but it’s really not good practice and it then leads eventually to self tipping on break. Then is expected all the time from you and other drivers before you know nobody ever gets a proper break and you’re doing more work to boot with no extra pay. Line in the sand for me.
Dafproblems:
I’ve had many an argument with my TM on this as I will not have a break on a bay. Sorry but getting bounced about with the forklift going on and off and listening to the racket is not a break. Plus every now and then they shout on you for some problem or another to do with the load or paperwork.
You may or may not be correct Luke about the legislation but it’s really not good practice and it then leads eventually to self tipping on break. Then is expected all the time from you and other drivers before you know nobody ever gets a proper break and you’re doing more work to boot with no extra pay. Line in the sand for me.
Yep that’s my point.
So then they start actually planning for you to take a break in their tight arsed schedules, either on a bay, or in a crap hole of a waiting room, …and as I said you can’t really have a kip to refresh.
If that was me personally on nights it would kill me (maybe literally if I fell asleep driving on way home) so like everything else it’s open to abuse by bosses and crap planners, so it should be addressed.
It’s a break from driving or in the case of WTD a break from working. It’s called taking a break for a reason, take a break from what you are currently doing whether driving or doing other work. It’s a break from that activity to stop fatigue setting in.
Rest is rest and is required at the end of the shift to ensure you are rested and recuperated for your next shift.
The issue as usual comes with people agreeing to work stupid hours, and or ridiculous start and finish times. If you need to sleep at work to have a rest you are not fully rested sufficiently for a normal 8 to 10 hour shift.
Yes we all have odd days where we dont sleep as well as we could, but I see it all the time drivers sleeping on chairs in ■■■■ waiting rooms or on the bunk fast asleep. If you need to sleep at work then you need more sleep at home simple as that. In any other job you can’t go to sleep while at work it is as simple as that.
Where and when someone takes their break is entirely up to them up to a point. But as usual the ■■■■ takers are the ones that cause all of us problems. No one argues with people having a break when it suits them to a point, but it’s well known drivers take the ■■■■ constantly, drivers don’t know how to not take the ■■■■, because most have never done any other types of jobs where they would not be allowed to get away with the things they do.
If drivers didn’t take the ■■■■ like they do the job would be much better for it, but drivers like making it worse or harder than it needs to be.
Dafproblems:
I’ve had many an argument with my TM on this as I will not have a break on a bay. Sorry but getting bounced about with the forklift going on and off and listening to the racket is not a break. Plus every now and then they shout on you for some problem or another to do with the load or paperwork.
You may or may not be correct Luke about the legislation but it’s really not good practice and it then leads eventually to self tipping on break. Then is expected all the time from you and other drivers before you know nobody ever gets a proper break and you’re doing more work to boot with no extra pay. Line in the sand for me.
Why is it not a break? You are taking a break from driving and or other work. That is what you are taking a break from driving or working.
At the end of the day if you’re doing DCPC training it doesn’t matter what’s good or not so good practice, you need to teach what’s legal and what’s not.
It is legal to have a break on a bay, it won’t suit everyone but then it’s only legal not compulsory.
The OP is right to say that the difference between break and rest is still misunderstood by a lot of drivers and Dave is obviously one of them, on the other hand I doubt there are many HGV drivers who haven’t taken advantage of the fact that it’s legal to have a break on a bay when it’s suited them
robroy:
Thing is Luke I know it ain’t against the rules to take (or in my case book) a break on a bay, but maybe it should be.
To be pedantic you ARE technically still ‘working’ if it involves watching for a green light.
I know you ain’t sat with your eyes glued to it (apart from the no time to spare teararse crew of course ) but I mean you can’t have the nap for instance which you would maybe have on a ‘proper’ break.
So therefore the amount of fatigue you could have relieved in that potential nap you could have had on the bay, goes towards the amount of tiredness you still feel after you have set back off on the road…if I’ve explained that one clearly.
I know it sounds a bit petty and over the top, but so are a lot of the [zb] tacho rules,.so why is this one not the rule when you consider it is or could be a driver fatigue issue.
Yeh ok, I know the answer is book the ‘break’ on the bay for the sake of the tacho, then take a proper break later as I usually do,.but some firms will deduct wages for 2 breaks.
More fool you if you are glued to waiting for a green light. If I want a sleep on a bay I have a sleep on a bay. Someone will soon let me know I need to move off it. So instead of pointing ways it’s potentially not a break simply make sure you treat it as one. Too many drivers are their own worst enemies
Winseer:
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“Taking breaks on bays” is still pretty much “Not allowed”, at least “Officially”…
Can you point me to that particular piece of legislation? Many thanks
That’s generally a rule by the owner of the RDC rather than a law.
Yup and far from them ordering you which mode to use they just expect you to move off the bay when required, they couldn’t care less what your tacho is showing
Dafproblems:
I’ve had many an argument with my TM on this as I will not have a break on a bay. Sorry but getting bounced about with the forklift going on and off and listening to the racket is not a break. Plus every now and then they shout on you for some problem or another to do with the load or paperwork.
You may or may not be correct Luke about the legislation but it’s really not good practice and it then leads eventually to self tipping on break. Then is expected all the time from you and other drivers before you know nobody ever gets a proper break and you’re doing more work to boot with no extra pay. Line in the sand for me.
ETS:
This Davie man speaks for the truck driver! I agree 100%. Waiting on a bay is POA at best no way you can take a proper break. For the purpose of ‘‘6 hours WTD’’ maaaaaybe but I would NOT consider it a proper rest period especially if there’s a sign at the entrance/gatehouse that reads ‘‘NO BREAK ON BAY!!’’
A break is a break a rest period is a rest period. How people can confuse such a simple bit of wording is beyond me.
Rest period applies to daily or weekly rest
Break period applies to a time where you undertake no driving or other work.
robroy:
Thing is Luke I know it ain’t against the rules to take (or in my case book) a break on a bay, but maybe it should be.
To be pedantic you ARE technically still ‘working’ if it involves watching for a green light.
I know you ain’t sat with your eyes glued to it (apart from the no time to spare teararse crew of course ) but I mean you can’t have the nap for instance which you would maybe have on a ‘proper’ break.
So therefore the amount of fatigue you could have relieved in that potential nap you could have had on the bay, goes towards the amount of tiredness you still feel after you have set back off on the road…if I’ve explained that one clearly.
I know it sounds a bit petty and over the top, but so are a lot of the [zb] tacho rules,.so why is this one not the rule when you consider it is or could be a driver fatigue issue.
Yeh ok, I know the answer is book the ‘break’ on the bay for the sake of the tacho, then take a proper break later as I usually do,.but some firms will deduct wages for 2 breaks.
More fool you if you are glued to waiting for a green light. If I want a sleep on a bay I have a sleep on a bay. Someone will soon let me know I need to move off it. So instead of pointing ways it’s potentially not a break simply make sure you treat it as one. Too many drivers are their own worst enemies
Hmm ok…But I did say tbf ‘I know you ain’t sat with your eyes glued to it’,(meaning ME) I also said I took proper breaks…
My time spent on bay is reading, or playing on my phone, with tacho on break mode…so win win as in effect get 2 ‘breaks’ if you will.
I also said ‘To be pedantic’ …which pertained to the fact that if you are on a bay you are still technically ‘working’ (in MY opinion, but apparentlly not in the eyes of the tacho rules)…that was my point.
Also fyi… I’m quite good and kind to myself in the job tbh ,.(and far too switched on to be my worst enemy by not doing it properly. )
We did have a guy at Hacklings delivering to Iceland Swindon who did, but, he did warn them he was running out of work time and if he’s not tipped soon then he will be having it on the bay…
They called his bluff, which turned out not to be a bluff and he blocked the bay for 45 minutes if I remember rightly…
Did the VOSA turn up with some chalk and a string of bunting?
In any event I don’t get it. If he was running out of work time he would need at least nine hours off, not 45 minutes.
WTD (working time) you need at least 15 minutes break before 6 hours…
So, instead of just a 15 minute which would restart the WTD clock he took the full 45 minutes to ■■■■ them over!!!
It wasn’t Aldi or Lidl, Vosa/DVSA, do sit outside and have caught a few drivers that were on break while unloading!!
We did have a guy at Hacklings delivering to Iceland Swindon who did, but, he did warn them he was running out of work time and if he’s not tipped soon then he will be having it on the bay…
They called his bluff, which turned out not to be a bluff and he blocked the bay for 45 minutes if I remember rightly… [emoji38]
Did the VOSA turn up with some chalk and a string of bunting?
In any event I don’t get it. If he was running out of work time he would need at least nine hours off, not 45 minutes.
WTD (working time) you need at least 15 minutes break before 6 hours…
So, instead of just a 15 minute which would restart the WTD clock he took the full 45 minutes to [zb] them over!!!
It wasn’t Aldi or Lidl, Vosa/DVSA, do sit outside and have caught a few drivers that were on break while unloading!!
If you are unloading yourself on the bay then yes you can be done for not having a break. Sat in your cab tossing it off doing nothing whilst the company tips your load no you can’t.
) but I mean you can’t have the nap for instance which you would maybe have on a ‘proper’ break.
)