Four 10 hour drives

Is it legal to do four consecutive 10 hour drives spread over Saturday, Sunday, Monday & Tuesday.

The reason I ask is that I’ve recently done 2 dcpc modules with two different trainers at different training providers and they each provided completely conflicting answers to the same question, one said yes it is legal while the other said no its not legal as there is no longer a fixed week from 0000 Monday to 2359 Sunday.

I’ve found this document gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours which appears to say there is still a fixed week but is dated 2017, has the regulations changed since then?

Any ideas who’s right

Yes there is still a fixed week 00:00 Monday to 23:59 Sunday, so it is perfect legal to do a 10 hour drive Saturday, Sunday, Monday & Tuesday.

I have just re-done my CPC as well and the standard of knowledge of some of the trainers was abysmal. I had 3 different trainers over the 5 days and had to correct all of them as they were supplying misleading information.

Yes. The rules don’t say it’s not possible.

Which is a farce in itself and shows how daft some of the rules are.

Yes it is.
(I’m fully enlightened and educated in this fascinating and riveting subject after enduring…I mean undertaking, a day’s dcpc last week :sunglasses: :laughing: )
My question to you would be…

Why tf would you want to? :neutral_face:

whelmic:
I have just re-done my CPC

I had 3 different trainers over the 5 days and had to correct all of them as they were supplying misleading information.

:neutral_face:
Pleased I didn’t do the course with you then bud, it sounds as if it was a shear delight. :laughing: :laughing: …did it overrun by any chance?
:smiley:

If the op is working the same 4 days each week within the fixed week (ie mon, tues, sat, & sun), and doing 10’s everyday then it won’t be legal, if they do it occasionally then it’s ok

Also remember if you’re clocking up those sort of hours then keep a close eye on your weekly totals, and don’t forget your spreadover for both the previous and following week(s)!

robroy:
My question to you would be…

Why tf would you want to? :neutral_face:

I don’t do them sort of hours,
the question was asked by someone else in the first course and when the same topic was raised in the second course i asked the same question again out of curiosity, that’s when i got the conflicting answer, not knowing who was right and who was wrong I couldn’t argue the point so I just let it be

robroy:

whelmic:
I have just re-done my CPC

I had 3 different trainers over the 5 days and had to correct all of them as they were supplying misleading information.

:neutral_face:
Pleased I didn’t do the course with you then bud, it sounds as if it was a shear * delight. :laughing: :laughing: …did it overrun by any chance?
:smiley:

Sheer*.

I’ve not heard of the fixed week being done away with and as far as I know we’re still following the regulations as laid down in
EC No 561/2006

But whichever answer is actually correct; it means one of those instructors is taking money on a false premise.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/603096/simplified-guidance-eu-drivers-hours-working-time-rules.pdf

EXCEEDING 9 OR 10 HOURS DAILY DRIVING
Article 6(1) EC 561/2006
The standard daily driving period is 9 hours but may be extended to 10 hours
twice during the week. A week is 0000 hrs on a Monday to 2400 hrs the
following Sunday.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:02006R0561-20150302&from=EN

Article 4
For the purposes of this Regulation the following definitions shall apply:

(i) ‘a week’ means the period of time between 00.00 on Monday and
24.00 on Sunday

Article 6

  1. The daily driving time shall not exceed nine hours.
    However, the daily driving time may be extended to at most 10 hours
    not more than twice during the week

Suedehead:

robroy:

whelmic:
I have just re-done my CPC

I had 3 different trainers over the 5 days and had to correct all of them as they were supplying misleading information.

:neutral_face:
Pleased I didn’t do the course with you then bud, it sounds as if it was a shear * delight. :laughing: :laughing: …did it overrun by any chance?
:smiley:

Sheer*.

:open_mouth: Thank you. :neutral_face:

robroy:

whelmic:
I have just re-done my CPC

I had 3 different trainers over the 5 days and had to correct all of them as they were supplying misleading information.

:neutral_face:
Pleased I didn’t do the course with you then bud, it sounds as if it was a shear delight. :laughing: :laughing: …did it overrun by any chance?
:smiley:

No we finished early every day. The whole thing was a compete and utter waste of time. I can honestly say that I learnt absolutely nothing that I didn’t know already

whelmic:

robroy:

whelmic:
I have just re-done my CPC

I had 3 different trainers over the 5 days and had to correct all of them as they were supplying misleading information.

:neutral_face:
Pleased I didn’t do the course with you then bud, it sounds as if it was a shear delight. :laughing: :laughing: …did it overrun by any chance?
:smiley:

No we finished early every day. The whole thing was a compete and utter waste of time. I can honestly say that I learnt absolutely nothing that I didn’t know already

You learnt that the trainers were incompetent :open_mouth:

No we finished early every day.

Some of the training standards are appalling. Be careful with the comment above as it renders the 7 hour upload null and void if followed up by the powers that be. This continues to happen and acts as a warning to providers to run the course properly and to time.

IMO it’s high time that trainers were audited more frequently - and then weeded out.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

So who trains the trainers ?

Returning to the issue of the 10 hour drives …

How daft can it be that a driver can do 4 in a row on sat sun mon tue but cannot do mon tue wed thu

If they really wanted to be sensible then the rule should be - max 2 x 10 drives between weekly rests because the intention is not to have a tired driver and that would have ensured this was the case

ROG:
Returning to the issue of the 10 hour drives …

How daft can it be that a driver can do 4 in a row on sat sun mon tue but cannot do mon tue wed thu

If they really wanted to be sensible then the rule should be - max 2 x 10 drives between weekly rests because the intention is not to have a tired driver and that would have ensured this was the case

I think the overriding principle was that 10 hours driving should be exceptional rather than a daily event.

It’s true that you can do 4 in a row if the first two are done at the weekend, but that pattern cannot be sustained for a single driver on a weekly basis (you would have to have a 12 day gap until the next 4 day stint).

In the end the rules are a compromise with simplicity.

Rjan:

ROG:
Returning to the issue of the 10 hour drives …

How daft can it be that a driver can do 4 in a row on sat sun mon tue but cannot do mon tue wed thu

If they really wanted to be sensible then the rule should be - max 2 x 10 drives between weekly rests because the intention is not to have a tired driver and that would have ensured this was the case

I think the overriding principle was that 10 hours driving should be exceptional rather than a daily event.

It’s true that you can do 4 in a row if the first two are done at the weekend, but that pattern cannot be sustained for a single driver on a weekly basis (you would have to have a 12 day gap until the next 4 day stint).

In the end the rules are a compromise with simplicity.

If you want simplicity it doesn’t get much simpler than 12 hours minimum unbroken daily rest 1 hour unbroken minimum break and no seperate limit on remaining driving/duty.

It’s so much better to have drivers driving for up to 10 hours with 9 hours daily rest between shifts possibly including commuting time.That’s not compromise that’s a recipe for disaster.IE the 10 hour drive won’t send a proper driver to sleep but the lack of sleep between shifts will.

Carryfast:

Rjan:

ROG:
Returning to the issue of the 10 hour drives …

How daft can it be that a driver can do 4 in a row on sat sun mon tue but cannot do mon tue wed thu

If they really wanted to be sensible then the rule should be - max 2 x 10 drives between weekly rests because the intention is not to have a tired driver and that would have ensured this was the case

I think the overriding principle was that 10 hours driving should be exceptional rather than a daily event.

It’s true that you can do 4 in a row if the first two are done at the weekend, but that pattern cannot be sustained for a single driver on a weekly basis (you would have to have a 12 day gap until the next 4 day stint).

In the end the rules are a compromise with simplicity.

If you want simplicity it doesn’t get much simpler than 12 hours minimum unbroken daily rest 1 hour unbroken minimum break and no seperate limit on remaining driving/duty.

It’s so much better to have drivers driving for up to 10 hours with 9 hours daily rest between shifts possibly including commuting time.That’s not compromise that’s a recipe for disaster.IE the 10 hour drive won’t send a proper driver to sleep but the lack of sleep between shifts will.

The problem is that there are always exceptional circumstances. A crash, a detour, a delay putting you in rush hour traffic. The 10 hours is there to provide some flexibility for those whose working day would normally be under 9 hours driving.

It’s the same with the reduced daily rest. It’s there more to cater for those tramping over 4 days.

The principle of the 48-hour maximum average working week, and the 60 hour maximum in any one week, also seek to provide some overall restraint.

It’s perfectly possible to imagine a variety of working patterns that make legitimate use of any one of the extremes. The agricultural worker who does 0700-1500 M-F, and occasionally a half-day of Saturday overtime, makes legitimate use of the reduced weekly rest. The 4 day a week tramper makes legitimate use of the three reduced rests. The person who encounters the occasional slow traffic, or does the occasional difficult long run, makes legitimate use of the extended driving time.

What probably wasn’t intended by those who first sat down to draft the rules decades ago, was that the bosses in this country - in connivance with some drivers, weak unions, lax enforcement agencies, and the government itself - would constantly be trying to exploit every single extreme as a matter of routine, nor that there would be such a surplus of drivers that bosses could get away with organising most of the industry along Victorian sweatshop working hours without any effective pushback to keep hours within reasonable bounds.

Given that driving time itself is limited to 9 hours as a norm, and driving is what drivers are supposed to do, it also probably wasn’t foreseen that the industry would become so inefficient with drivers’ labour as to often drag the working day out by up to 6 hours more of non-driving time (usually waiting time), or that hauliers would be paying only plain time for those overtime hours as opposed to time-and-half or double time.

Rjan:

Carryfast:

Rjan:
In the end the rules are a compromise with simplicity.

If you want simplicity it doesn’t get much simpler than 12 hours minimum unbroken daily rest 1 hour unbroken minimum break and no seperate limit on remaining driving/duty.

It’s so much better to have drivers driving for up to 10 hours with 9 hours daily rest between shifts possibly including commuting time.That’s not compromise that’s a recipe for disaster.IE the 10 hour drive won’t send a proper driver to sleep but the lack of sleep between shifts will.

The problem is that there are always exceptional circumstances. A crash, a detour, a delay putting you in rush hour traffic. The 10 hours is there to provide some flexibility for those whose working day would normally be under 9 hours driving.

I’m sure that the idea of ‘exceptional circumstances’ could be factored into the rules regardless.While the 10 hour driving allowance is already there in the case of no seperate driving/duty limits as part of an 11 hour working day.