peterm:
I don’t want to mess in the house, so I’m going outside to shoot meself… goodbye CF and Rjan.
nooo don’t do that they /we need you to vote 
tommy t:
[zb] me is this a competition as te who can quote a full page or something?Sat here and thinking about all this [zb] and more, and what occurred to me is we need a revolution of the people, Yes i know Thatcher (a previous tory government of toffs ) eventually killed off any real power that the unions had , and maybe the unions policies were in part to blame ,(i really dunno) But it is clear to me that what the people of the uk really need is a peoples revolution , We need to end this tory parties goal dividing and rule, which is why they are running the uk in to ground right now, They have preached about the lazy work-shy neighbour twitching the curtains as you go out to work , ect ect(more bull excrement in this space) when in reality they have been very busy removing or doing the very best to remove those safety nets called state benefits should the company you work for suddenly cease trading, and as a result you become unemployed (perish the thought) or should you heaven forbid you suffer life changing injuries or illness rendering you unfit for work ,
That is what the tories are really about, They have even changed the goalposts to prevent them getting removed from office early (very undemocratic)
And when talking about what you pay your NI & P.a.y.e for, pensions? free at the point of use heathcare? if this lot have their way there will not be any state pensions when we reach that ever extending retirement age or Free at the point of use health care , and have you noticed the deafaning silence on this from the other sad excuses of political parties , yes i have little ,no trust.faith in any of them, with good reason, why because all they really care about is their-selves and close buddies , that is what we really have allegedly representing us a big lieThe people need proper representation, by that we can represent ourselves(yuck, go and be a politician) or each other (not just drivers) I ain’t no rabbit or whatever my peoples revolution would be free , WE just need to unite instead of divide and we can win , get our way it is we who really have the power, those tory , labour,. lib dumb, uk kip. pricks all work for us please do not forget that. We are their masters not the other way around as they I’m sure would like
Reality check over lets do this lets unite against them, and at least ry and make this country a better place for us to live
So if anyone has any constructive ideas how we can progress this ideology please feel free, you have as much right to your input as i do
I’m with you on that. United we stand divided we fall. It is their policy to keep us divided as that’s the only way they can control us. In the near future we will be nothing but slaves we work pay taxes they use Saud taxes to pay themselves we who elect them should be able to decide what they earn and sack them if they don’t work for the electorate. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Jeremy Corbyn eg us anti EU so why us he canvassing to remain …because it is better for him but it isn’t for us. Vivre la revolution bring it on bring down the govt it can be done has been done
volvo2:
tommy t:
[zb] me is this a competition as te who can quote a full page or something?Sat here and thinking about all this [zb] and more, and what occurred to me is we need a revolution of the people, Yes i know Thatcher (a previous tory government of toffs ) eventually killed off any real power that the unions had , and maybe the unions policies were in part to blame ,(i really dunno) But it is clear to me that what the people of the uk really need is a peoples revolution , We need to end this tory parties goal dividing and rule, which is why they are running the uk in to ground right now, They have preached about the lazy work-shy neighbour twitching the curtains as you go out to work , ect ect(more bull excrement in this space) when in reality they have been very busy removing or doing the very best to remove those safety nets called state benefits should the company you work for suddenly cease trading, and as a result you become unemployed (perish the thought) or should you heaven forbid you suffer life changing injuries or illness rendering you unfit for work ,
That is what the tories are really about, They have even changed the goalposts to prevent them getting removed from office early (very undemocratic)
And when talking about what you pay your NI & P.a.y.e for, pensions? free at the point of use heathcare? if this lot have their way there will not be any state pensions when we reach that ever extending retirement age or Free at the point of use health care , and have you noticed the deafaning silence on this from the other sad excuses of political parties , yes i have little ,no trust.faith in any of them, with good reason, why because all they really care about is their-selves and close buddies , that is what we really have allegedly representing us a big lieThe people need proper representation, by that we can represent ourselves(yuck, go and be a politician) or each other (not just drivers) I ain’t no rabbit or whatever my peoples revolution would be free , WE just need to unite instead of divide and we can win , get our way it is we who really have the power, those tory , labour,. lib dumb, uk kip. pricks all work for us please do not forget that. We are their masters not the other way around as they I’m sure would like
Reality check over lets do this lets unite against them, and at least ry and make this country a better place for us to live
So if anyone has any constructive ideas how we can progress this ideology please feel free, you have as much right to your input as i do
I’m with you on that. United we stand divided we fall. It is their policy to keep us divided as that’s the only way they can control us. In the near future we will be nothing but slaves we work pay taxes they use Saud taxes to pay themselves we who elect them should be able to decide what they earn and sack them if they don’t work for the electorate. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Jeremy Corbyn eg us anti EU so why us he canvassing to remain …because it is better for him but it isn’t for us. Vivre la revolution bring it on bring down the govt it can be done has been done
That word power ,Remember this , It is we that are the true power , Governments quite wrongly like to assume that it is they who have power over us, when it in reality is they who WORK FOR US, ( in the uk) Or bloody well should do, Yes the French got that part correct , i admire them when they stand their ground ( when it’s people power and not their governments ect) they have got a better idea than we have on that most of the time sadly,
Based on your valid comments I agree As i said they are all the same apart from name/brand we need a total boot out of what we have because it does not represent the people of the uk or what they really want, We possibly have the most corrupt political party choices available within the EU if not the world right now, none are offering any real change all are too similar , maybe it’s time we need a total re think from ground up & cull all the waste at local & national level along the way?
tommy t:
volvo2:
tommy t:
[zb] me is this a competition as te who can quote a full page or something?Sat here and thinking about all this [zb] and more, and what occurred to me is we need a revolution of the people, Yes i know Thatcher (a previous tory government of toffs ) eventually killed off any real power that the unions had , and maybe the unions policies were in part to blame ,(i really dunno) But it is clear to me that what the people of the uk really need is a peoples revolution , We need to end this tory parties goal dividing and rule, which is why they are running the uk in to ground right now, They have preached about the lazy work-shy neighbour twitching the curtains as you go out to work , ect ect(more bull excrement in this space) when in reality they have been very busy removing or doing the very best to remove those safety nets called state benefits should the company you work for suddenly cease trading, and as a result you become unemployed (perish the thought) or should you heaven forbid you suffer life changing injuries or illness rendering you unfit for work ,
That is what the tories are really about, They have even changed the goalposts to prevent them getting removed from office early (very undemocratic)
And when talking about what you pay your NI & P.a.y.e for, pensions? free at the point of use heathcare? if this lot have their way there will not be any state pensions when we reach that ever extending retirement age or Free at the point of use health care , and have you noticed the deafaning silence on this from the other sad excuses of political parties , yes i have little ,no trust.faith in any of them, with good reason, why because all they really care about is their-selves and close buddies , that is what we really have allegedly representing us a big lieThe people need proper representation, by that we can represent ourselves(yuck, go and be a politician) or each other (not just drivers) I ain’t no rabbit or whatever my peoples revolution would be free , WE just need to unite instead of divide and we can win , get our way it is we who really have the power, those tory , labour,. lib dumb, uk kip. pricks all work for us please do not forget that. We are their masters not the other way around as they I’m sure would like
Reality check over lets do this lets unite against them, and at least ry and make this country a better place for us to live
So if anyone has any constructive ideas how we can progress this ideology please feel free, you have as much right to your input as i do
I’m with you on that. United we stand divided we fall. It is their policy to keep us divided as that’s the only way they can control us. In the near future we will be nothing but slaves we work pay taxes they use Saud taxes to pay themselves we who elect them should be able to decide what they earn and sack them if they don’t work for the electorate. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Jeremy Corbyn eg us anti EU so why us he canvassing to remain …because it is better for him but it isn’t for us. Vivre la revolution bring it on bring down the govt it can be done has been done
That word power ,Remember this , It is we that are the true power , Governments quite wrongly like to assume that it is they who have power over us, when it in reality is they who WORK FOR US, ( in the uk) Or bloody well should do, Yes the French got that part correct , i admire them when they stand their ground ( when it’s people power and not their governments ect) they have got a better idea than we have on that most of the time sadly,
Based on your valid comments I agree As i said they are all the same apart from name/brand we need a total boot out of what we have because it does not represent the people of the uk or what they really want, We possibly have the most corrupt political party choices available within the EU if not the world right now, none are offering any real change all are too similar , maybe it’s time we need a total re think from ground up & cull all the waste at local & national level along the way?
Carryfast:
It’s reasonable to say that the German economic model post WW2 was based of Fordist principles.IE high wages resulting in high consumption of domestic made products.Thereby creating a high economic growth high employment regime.
But the Fordist model isn’t fundamentally high wages. It’s high productivity. And the real revolution in standards of living wasn’t in Henry Ford’s day, but in the postwar period when inequality was addressed.
And the “German economic model” in this respect doesn’t look much different to the general economic model of Western capitalism in that era. Even today, Germany is suffering the same crisis as every other economy - it’s just a question of degree.
As for US immigration policy the 1924 Immigration Act was anything but 'liberal.In fact it’s precisely what we’ve needed long before now.While even now it’s as difficult for a Brit to emigrate to America as it is for a Mexican.Unlike our open door immigration policy.
As for your ideas regards housing.Yet more London suburbs built in what remains of the Surrey’s and the South East’s countryside are as bad as the Soviet style high rise blocks built in former market towns like Kingston.On that note feel free to build new cities in the northern wilderness of Northumbria,North Yorkshire,Scotland and ■■■■■■■ to house Corbyn’s immigrant vote.
You say Soviet style, and yet almost all housing today is delivered by the private sector. So much for the private sector, eh?
this has at least 10 pages written all over it!
Rjan - just give in and agree with carryfast you wont win he will grind you down with endless time quotes and Wikipedia links.
war1974:
this has at least 10 pages written all over it!Rjan - just give in and agree with carryfast you wont win he will grind you down with endless time quotes and Wikipedia links.
Oh I dunno, if feel that TN’s wordsmith may just have met his match! Whilst I myself prefer hilarious one liner comebacks such as “wind yer neck in ya knob” or the tried and tested “is that your head or is your neck blowing bubbles?” I can see that in Rjan we have a worthy opponent prepared to go head to head (word to word) with Leatherheads finest.
Bravo chaps, keep up the good work.
the maoster:
war1974:
this has at least 10 pages written all over it!Rjan - just give in and agree with carryfast you wont win he will grind you down with endless time quotes and Wikipedia links.
Oh I dunno, if feel that TN’s wordsmith may just have met his match! Whilst I myself prefer hilarious one liner comebacks such as “wind yer neck in ya knob” or the tried and tested “is that your head or is your neck blowing bubbles?” I can see that in Rjan we have a worthy opponent prepared to go head to head (word to word) with Leatherheads finest.
Bravo chaps, keep up the good work.
the only trouble I have is and I have said this numerous times before - some of what carryfast posts makes sense actually some a lot of sense, but due to the endless quoting and making each reply longer than the first. we end up with as I have just done read the first one and moved to the bottom.
Just to keep the thread going.When the Titanic sank the survivors were brought to America to be proccessed ,those with no means of supporting themselves were sent back from whence they came.
alamcculloch:
Just to keep the thread going.When the Titanic sank the survivors were brought to America to be proccessed ,those with no means of supporting themselves were sent back from whence they came.
Well you shot yourself in the foot with this comment, because most of us EE have at least room and job lined up for us from friends(other EE) as Juddian said. Some have even more 
In other word no turning back this people on grounds of not been able to support themselves 
Rjan:
But the Fordist model isn’t fundamentally high wages. It’s high productivity. And the real revolution in standards of living wasn’t in Henry Ford’s day, but in the postwar period when inequality was addressed.And the “German economic model” in this respect doesn’t look much different to the general economic model of Western capitalism in that era. Even today, Germany is suffering the same crisis as every other economy - it’s just a question of degree.
You say Soviet style, and yet almost all housing today is delivered by the private sector. So much for the private sector, eh?
The Fordist model was/is all about high ‘wages’ to create high ‘consumption’.The fact that will obviously mean high productivety and more equality being a given.Although obviously not high productivety based on per capita per hour which actually defeats the object of employing more workers to buy more stuff.In addition to the fact that doing more work for the same money = a pay cut in real terms.On that note yes I’ve already said real Fordism didn’t take off until around 1950’s America in that regard.The reason for that being Ford’s competitors didn’t take on board his correct economic ideas before that time.Hence the pre war industrial strife in the US which made the 1984 miners strike here look like a friendly chat with the law.
The German economic model also fitting that post war US model the key in both cases being the idea of maximising wage levels v the Brit establishment always being more biased towards the opposite.While it’s obvious that free markets which open the economy to products made under the latter model will defeat the object of the Fordist model in the domestic economy.Hence where the US and to a lesser extent Germany are now.Germany as always having the advantage of a customer base that in large part still recognises and understands the importance of buying German not cheap imports for that reason.Hence the difference in the fortunes of the German steel industry v its British counterpart for one example.
As for soviet style housing yes like the British idea of running the economy there isn’t much difference between so called cheap housing uk style v soviet.Both being there to pander to the idea of a low wage economy.Ironically in our case,as usual,often resulting in the situation of over population of certain areas leading to over demand resulting in the paradoxical situation of some of the most expensive housing costs and largest housing shortages,being in the areas of the country with the highest housing supply like Greater London.In which the Socialist zbwits think the fix for that is to bulldoze yet more of what remains of the South East’s countryside to build yet more high density zb urban sprawl and build more tower blocks in previously pleasant County market towns. 
Juddian:
Conor:
Carryfast:
The inconvenient questions being if they are so industrious why is Eastern Europe such a backward basket case economy.Wow, its almost like you’re completely unaware of the almost half century of Soviet rule they were under where their countries were asset stripped and run into the ground.
We’re just over half way through our own Soviet style asset stripping operation too when you think about it, our demon is called the EUSSR and it has lots of on board bought and paid for lackeys in this country helping it to end game.
OK in theory its been 40 years of EU but the real purpose of the German dominated regime the de-industrialisation of our country didn’t really reach full throttle until the 80’s so 30 years and counting and still ongoing (desperately sad irony of trying in vain to cajole an Indian company to keep our last steelworks going
+1. Excellent as always Juddian. If people watched the video on YouTube called 'Brexit the Movie, they will get a good insight into what the politicians, the EU, the banks and big business are up to. if people wondered why food and other essentials are so expensive, why they have no money in their pockets, why industry is closing down then watch Brexit the Movie on YouTube, you’ll be shocked as I was. Btw, I’m not pushing the leave campaign, the video explains clearly why we are all so bloody skink.
You’ve only got to remember all the factories, foundries and plants we hauled to and from or passed by every day that have vanished to be replaced by offices shops and housing, meanwhile thousands of acres of good green land built over to provide warehousing and infrastructure for food and cheap far eastern clothing distribution (as the population exploded and continues and will continue year on year which is what our economy is now based on, together with housing which goes hand in hand) and massive warehouses and infrastructure to store and move the huge volumes of Chinese tat we have to buy as we make nothing, not forgetting the other growth industry that of recycling all plastic tat so it can make more tat for us to buy with borrowed money.
I don’t actually blame the EU for being what it is a Soviet style corrupt semi socialistic cabal, and now showing its true purpose under the direction of the Merkel of destroying what is left of individual European nation states by mass immigration of non Europeans who will not ever integrate, divide and rule is always their way…plus it gives something for the media to report and winge about and keeps the real new order growing and gaining strength in the background.
I blame our own politicians and their bought and paid for lackey media chums for allowing our country to be systematically given away or sold, but my utter loathing is reserved for our own electorate who time and time again despite all they should have seen happening voted, turkey like without fail, for their very own Christmas, they did it again last year, i fear they’ll do the same again next month.
Ironically Polish blokes settled here i know are keen as hell on us leaving the EU, they can see whats coming when the great eurasian plan is complete…might be a bit of pulling the ladder up after you but who the hell can blame them for that.
Until then anyone with any sense is going to go where the money is, if they’ve got a work ethic they’ll do well, hence how well the EE’s have done in Britain, bloody good luck to 'em i say…note how they stick together unlike the Brits who in growing numbers seem to be lost and bewildered.
Juddian:
Conor:
Carryfast:
The inconvenient questions being if they are so industrious why is Eastern Europe such a backward basket case economy.Wow, its almost like you’re completely unaware of the almost half century of Soviet rule they were under where their countries were asset stripped and run into the ground.
We’re just over half way through our own Soviet style asset stripping operation too when you think about it, our demon is called the EUSSR and it has lots of on board bought and paid for lackeys in this country helping it to end game.
OK in theory its been 40 years of EU but the real purpose of the German dominated regime the de-industrialisation of our country didn’t really reach full throttle until the 80’s so 30 years and counting and still ongoing (desperately sad irony of trying in vain to cajole an Indian company to keep our last steelworks going
You’ve only got to remember all the factories, foundries and plants we hauled to and from or passed by every day that have vanished to be replaced by offices shops and housing, meanwhile thousands of acres of good green land built over to provide warehousing and infrastructure for food and cheap far eastern clothing distribution (as the population exploded and continues and will continue year on year which is what our economy is now based on, together with housing which goes hand in hand) and massive warehouses and infrastructure to store and move the huge volumes of Chinese tat we have to buy as we make nothing, not forgetting the other growth industry that of recycling all plastic tat so it can make more tat for us to buy with borrowed money.
I don’t actually blame the EU for being what it is a Soviet style corrupt semi socialistic cabal, and now showing its true purpose under the direction of the Merkel of destroying what is left of individual European nation states by mass immigration of non Europeans who will not ever integrate, divide and rule is always their way…plus it gives something for the media to report and winge about and keeps the real new order growing and gaining strength in the background.
I blame our own politicians and their bought and paid for lackey media chums for allowing our country to be systematically given away or sold, but my utter loathing is reserved for our own electorate who time and time again despite all they should have seen happening voted, turkey like without fail, for their very own Christmas, they did it again last year, i fear they’ll do the same again next month.
Ironically Polish blokes settled here i know are keen as hell on us leaving the EU, they can see whats coming when the great eurasian plan is complete…might be a bit of pulling the ladder up after you but who the hell can blame them for that.
Until then anyone with any sense is going to go where the money is, if they’ve got a work ethic they’ll do well, hence how well the EE’s have done in Britain, bloody good luck to 'em i say…note how they stick together unlike the Brits who in growing numbers seem to be lost and bewildered.
+1. Excellent as always Juddian. If people watched the video on YouTube called 'Brexit the Movie, they will get a good insight into what the politicians, the EU, the banks and big business are up to. if people wondered why food and other essentials are so expensive, why they have no money in their pockets, why industry is closing down then watch Brexit the Movie on YouTube, you’ll be shocked as I was. Btw, I’m not pushing the leave campaign, the video explains clearly why we are all so bloody skink.
My comment is in in the last two post if Admin could fix it for me lol. It the paragraph that’s starts +1. Ta. Bloody phones.
The fordist theory was more about mass cheapish production so therefore mass sales. Nothing to do paying high wages really.
volvo2:
The fordist theory was more about mass cheapish production so therefore mass sales. Nothing to do paying high wages really.
This explains the principle that Ford introduced.High wages to attract the workforce to do an unattractive job.‘But’ which then also more importantly had the knock on effect of increasing consumer demand and therefore economic growth.Which was then taken to it’s logical conclusion in the form of Kennedy’s US economic model of the 1960’s.
npr.org/2014/01/27/267145552 … henry-ford
elcoushistory.tripod.com/economics1960.html
The rest was history ‘until’ Nixon,Reagan and Thatcher went for the Post Fordist model of minimising wage levels.By opening up the western economies to the basket case exploitative regimes of Communist China and Soviet style Eastern Europe.
Carryfast:
The Fordist model was/is all about high ‘wages’ to create high ‘consumption’.
No, it was about increased productivity at its core.
It is a peculiar feature of production lines that they aren’t more productive at low volumes - you don’t build a production line to make just one or two items, you’ve got to build (and sell) hundreds of times more units to recover the overheads.
Lines also don’t necessarily eliminate labour - what one craftsman can do bespokely, might take ten or twenty separate people on a line. And a factory might have several specialist lines feeding into a main line. So what required ten people in a workshop, might require hundreds in a factory that uses lines.
Requiring ten times as many employees, and having hundreds of times more units to sell, might well have put the kybosh on the idea unless car ownership was vastly increased.
Ford also didn’t pay high wages just to create demand. He had to pay higher wages to attract and retain the necessary number and calibre of workers to do the work, which was more disciplined and less satisfying than bespoke production. Provided he could shift all the cars he made, he could nevertheless afford to pay those higher wages.
The flash of genius came in recognising that the ■■■■■■■■ who made the cars, and who had to be paid handsomely for it, were also would-be consumers of the cars, creating the additional demand necessary to soak up the vastly increased numbers of cars that needed to be sold to make the production line method profitable.
That, I think, is a pretty good summary of Ford’s recipe for success - although this sort of thinking was by no means confined to Ford alone.
It is true that, perhaps once the whole thing was established, if there had been room to cut wages and gouge out higher rates of profit per car (and bosses are always looking to gouge out higher rates of profit), someone probably went into the back room and did the sums, and recognised that any reduction in wages would lead to reduced spending on luxury items like cars amongst the workforce, and that itself would threaten the profitability of the line (because of how the line required a large minimum number of units to be sold to be profitable). So the bosses accepted the going rate of profit as it was (and they had no competitors able to extract any higher profits from the car industry, because those competitors, if they had tried to set up, would have found themselves subject to the same logic limiting the reduction in wages).
Now that’s all very interesting in its own terms, but I’m struggling to see how you relate Fordist thinking to today’s economy. I’m in favour of higher wages. But simply raising wages just leads to reduced profitability. Ford didn’t just raise wages. He revolutionised the production methods of cars which enabled higher wages to be paid without threatening profitability.
So what revolution in production methods do you propose in today’s economy, which would enable higher wages whilst preserving profitability? We already have production lines, so what exactly is your big Fordist idea?
.
Rjan:
Carryfast:
The Fordist model was/is all about high ‘wages’ to create high ‘consumption’.No, it was about increased productivity at its core.
It is a peculiar feature of production lines that they aren’t more productive at low volumes - you don’t build a production line to make just one or two items, you’ve got to build (and sell) hundreds of times more units to recover the overheads.
Lines also don’t necessarily eliminate labour - what one craftsman can do bespokely, might take ten or twenty separate people on a line. And a factory might have several specialist lines feeding into a main line. So what required ten people in a workshop, might require hundreds in a factory that uses lines.
Requiring ten times as many employees, and having hundreds of times more units to sell, might well have put the kybosh on the idea unless car ownership was vastly increased.
Ford also didn’t pay high wages just to create demand. He had to pay higher wages to attract and retain the necessary number and calibre of workers to do the work, which was more disciplined and less satisfying than bespoke production. Provided he could shift all the cars he made, he could nevertheless afford to pay those higher wages.
The flash of genius came in recognising that the [zb] who made the cars, and who had to be paid handsomely for it, were also would-be consumers of the cars, creating the additional demand necessary to soak up the vastly increased numbers of cars that needed to be sold to make the production line method profitable.
That, I think, is a pretty good summary of Ford’s recipe for success - although this sort of thinking was by no means confined to Ford alone.
It is true that, perhaps once the whole thing was established, if there had been room to cut wages and gouge out higher rates of profit per car (and bosses are always looking to gouge out higher rates of profit), someone probably went into the back room and did the sums, and recognised that any reduction in wages would lead to reduced spending on luxury items like cars amongst the workforce, and that itself would threaten the profitability of the line (because of how the line required a large minimum number of units to be sold to be profitable).
Now that’s all very interesting in its own terms, but I’m struggling to see how you relate Fordist thinking to today’s economy. I’m in favour of higher wages. But simply raising wages just leads to reduced profitability. Ford didn’t just raise wages. He revolutionised the production methods of cars which enabled higher wages to be paid without threatening profitability.
So what revolution in production methods do you propose in today’s economy, which would enable higher wages whilst preserving profitability? We already have production lines, so what exactly is your big Fordist idea?
Read the article.As it says the global free market has introduced massive downward pressure on wages in real terms. 
The result still being the Fordist production model with even better productivety but ‘without’ the Fordist wages to buy the products.Which is why China and Eastern Europe for example are dragging the whole global free market cluster zb down the tubes.
npr.org/2014/01/27/267145552 … henry-ford
Also bearing in mind that better productivety at the expense of using less workers to turn out more products actually adds to the problems of low wages.IE redundant unemployed workers don’t buy stuff and can’t pay the mortgage.
Carryfast:
Rjan:
…
It is true that, perhaps once the whole thing was established, if there had been room to cut wages and gouge out higher rates of profit per car (and bosses are always looking to gouge out higher rates of profit), someone probably went into the back room and did the sums, and recognised that any reduction in wages would lead to reduced spending on luxury items like cars amongst the workforce, and that itself would threaten the profitability of the line (because of how the line required a large minimum number of units to be sold to be profitable).
…Read the article.As it says the global free market has introduced massive downward pressure on wages in real terms.
So what you’re saying is that the capitalists are doing the very thing that Ford (and his would-be competitors) saw the folly in - cutting wages to squeeze out a higher rate of profit, and thereby undermining your own effective demand.
I can certainly agree that this may be part of the problem today - ruinous competition, in other words. Notably, prevailing government ideology is to promote competition - monopolies are not being allowed to form naturally in the economy.
Also bearing in mind that better productivety at the expense of using less workers to turn out more products actually adds to the problems of low wages.IE redundant unemployed workers don’t buy stuff and can’t pay the mortgage.
Indeed. Under automation, there should be downward pressure on working time (to distribute remaining work more evenly), but the UK in particular keeps resisting the compulsory reduction in the maximum working week. Again, I see your point that what capital owners are doing is keeping as much as possible of the profits attributable to automation, and are eliminating headcount (rather than easing working hours and sharing profits by increasing wages, which would maintain effective demand at the cost of more moderate rates of profit).
The market failure here is a “free rider” problem. High wages are necessary to sustain effective demand, but any one business can pay low wages without having much effect on aggregate effective demand. Every business therefore has the incentive to pay low wages itself, whilst relying on others to pay high wages to sustain demand. But even if industrialists could see the folly in this, the effect of competition forces every business to cut wages or go bust - competition actually puts out of business, the very businesses who are bearing the burden of sustaining effective demand! It’s time to return to the era of monopolies who could act strategically in the market!
And the political problem preventing the remedy to this market failure is, increased wages at the bottom necessitate either reduced profits, reduced wage inequality, or increased consumer prices (any of which reduce overall inequality and therefore threaten the better off in our society). The wealthy only let go of their wealth last time and accepted economic reform following two world wars in short succession, and a failed gamble on fascism.