Flat earth is real

No, its not.
This topic is about free speech.
I notice a lot of people on this forum are very toxic to opposing views.

To quote George Orwell (Well worth reading)
telelib.com/authors/O/Orwell … 61227.html

Why do we believe that the earth is round? I am not speaking of the few thousand astronomers, geographers and so forth who could give ocular proof, or have a theoretical knowledge of the proof, but of the ordinary newspaper-reading citizen, such as you or me.

As for the Flat Earth theory, I believe I could refute it. If you stand by the seashore on a clear day, you can see the masts and funnels of invisible ships passing along the horizons. This phenomenon can only be explained by assuming that the earth’s surface is curved. But it does not follow that the earth is spherical. Imagine another theory called the Oval Earth theory, which claims that the earth is shaped like an egg. What can I say against it?

Against the Oval Earth man, the first card I can play is the analogy of the sun and moon. The Oval Earth man promptly answers that I don’t know, by my own observation, that those bodies are spherical. I only know that they are round, and they may perfectly well be flat discs. I have no answer to that one. Besides, he goes on, what reason have I for thinking that the earth must be the same shape as the sun and moon? I can’t answer that one either.

My second card is the earth’s shadow: when cast on the moon during eclipses, it appears to be the shadow of a round object. But how do I know, demands the Oval Earth man, that eclipses of the moon are caused by the shadow of the earth? The answer is that I don’t know, but have taken this piece of information blindly from newspaper articles and science booklets.

Defeated in the minor exchanges, I now play my queen of trumps: the opinion of the experts. The Astronomer Royal, who ought to know, tells me that the earth is round. The Oval Earth man covers the queen with his king. Have I tested the Astronomer Royal’s statement, and would I even know a way of testing it? Here I bring out my ace. Yes, I do know one test. The astronomers can foretell eclipses, and this suggests that their opinions about the solar system are pretty sound. I am therefore justified in accepting their say-so about the shape of the earth.

If the Oval Earth man answers—what I believe is true—that the ancient Egyptians, who thought the sun goes round the earth, could also predict eclipses, then bang goes my ace. I have only one card left: navigation. People can sail ships round the world, and reach the places they aim at, by calculations which assume that the earth is spherical. I believe that finishes the Oval Earth man, though even then he may possibly have some kind of counter.

It will be seen that my reasons for thinking that the earth is round are rather precarious ones. Yet this is an exceptionally elementary piece of information. On most other questions I should have to fall back on the expert much earlier, and would be less able to test his pronouncements. And much the greater part of our knowledge is at this level. It does not rest on reasoning or on experiment, but on authority. And how can it be otherwise, when the range of knowledge is so vast that the expert himself is an ignoramous as soon as he strays away from his own speciality?

Most people, if asked to prove that the earth is round, would not even bother to produce the rather weak arguments I have outlined above. They would start off by saying that ’everyone knows’ the earth to be round, and if pressed further, would become angry. This is a credulous age, and the burden of knowledge which we now have to carry is partly responsible.

This is to say do not believe everything you read. Do not get angry that people challenge ‘experts’. Embrace it.

As an another author said. We live in a market place of ideas by blocking ideas from being published you only make their arguments more stronger. It is far better to refute ideas then to ‘ban’ them.

It does bug me a bit when I see some people say “Well your a trucker, your view doesnt count”. It is such a silly thing to say. Besides if your own world view is so fragile that a trucknet forum member can challenge it maybe you need to question it.

Opinions of experts matter. But as Orwell implied. Dont rely on experts to think for you.

adam277:
No, its not.
This topic is about free speech.
I notice a lot of people on this forum are very toxic to opposing views.

To quote George Orwell (Well worth reading)
telelib.com/authors/O/Orwell … 61227.html

Why do we believe that the earth is round? I am not speaking of the few thousand astronomers, geographers and so forth who could give ocular proof, or have a theoretical knowledge of the proof, but of the ordinary newspaper-reading citizen, such as you or me.

As for the Flat Earth theory, I believe I could refute it. If you stand by the seashore on a clear day, you can see the masts and funnels of invisible ships passing along the horizons. This phenomenon can only be explained by assuming that the earth’s surface is curved. But it does not follow that the earth is spherical. Imagine another theory called the Oval Earth theory, which claims that the earth is shaped like an egg. What can I say against it?

Against the Oval Earth man, the first card I can play is the analogy of the sun and moon. The Oval Earth man promptly answers that I don’t know, by my own observation, that those bodies are spherical. I only know that they are round, and they may perfectly well be flat discs. I have no answer to that one. Besides, he goes on, what reason have I for thinking that the earth must be the same shape as the sun and moon? I can’t answer that one either.

My second card is the earth’s shadow: when cast on the moon during eclipses, it appears to be the shadow of a round object. But how do I know, demands the Oval Earth man, that eclipses of the moon are caused by the shadow of the earth? The answer is that I don’t know, but have taken this piece of information blindly from newspaper articles and science booklets.

Defeated in the minor exchanges, I now play my queen of trumps: the opinion of the experts. The Astronomer Royal, who ought to know, tells me that the earth is round. The Oval Earth man covers the queen with his king. Have I tested the Astronomer Royal’s statement, and would I even know a way of testing it? Here I bring out my ace. Yes, I do know one test. The astronomers can foretell eclipses, and this suggests that their opinions about the solar system are pretty sound. I am therefore justified in accepting their say-so about the shape of the earth.

If the Oval Earth man answers—what I believe is true—that the ancient Egyptians, who thought the sun goes round the earth, could also predict eclipses, then bang goes my ace. I have only one card left: navigation. People can sail ships round the world, and reach the places they aim at, by calculations which assume that the earth is spherical. I believe that finishes the Oval Earth man, though even then he may possibly have some kind of counter.

It will be seen that my reasons for thinking that the earth is round are rather precarious ones. Yet this is an exceptionally elementary piece of information. On most other questions I should have to fall back on the expert much earlier, and would be less able to test his pronouncements. And much the greater part of our knowledge is at this level. It does not rest on reasoning or on experiment, but on authority. And how can it be otherwise, when the range of knowledge is so vast that the expert himself is an ignoramous as soon as he strays away from his own speciality?

Most people, if asked to prove that the earth is round, would not even bother to produce the rather weak arguments I have outlined above. They would start off by saying that ’everyone knows’ the earth to be round, and if pressed further, would become angry. This is a credulous age, and the burden of knowledge which we now have to carry is partly responsible.

This is to say do not believe everything you read. Do not get angry that people challenge ‘experts’. Embrace it.

As an another author said. We live in a market place of ideas by blocking ideas from being published you only make their arguments more stronger. It is far better to refute ideas then to ‘ban’ them.

It does bug me a bit when I see some people say “Well your a trucker, your view doesnt count”. It is such a silly thing to say. Besides if your own world view is so fragile that a trucknet forum member can challenge it maybe you need to question it.

Opinions of experts matter. But as Orwell implied. Dont rely on experts to think for you.

Has somebody on here been silenced? Banned? What have I missed?

Not really. Certain people have been suggesting that some people on here should not have an opinion on certain subjects because they are truck drivers.
Others have hinted that the forum mods should remove people on here because they are ‘offended’ by what some people say.

There is no one who cherishes freedom more than a reformed/redeemed Socialist who has seen that ideology for what it is.
Ironically how/why should we allow the freedom of speech/thought of those who’s ideology is for the removal of it. :wink:

Oh now try telling the ‘experts’ that there might be another explanation for the red shift.
Or that Einsteins model of how gravity warps space time doesn’t fit things falling towards the centre of a globe from each and every opposite direction.Including everything from a flat trajectory to a polar to an equatorial orbit.
Each object being its own centre of an infinite globe shaped universe does. :wink:

Don’t accept everything you’re told.
Ask for proof, or at least evidence.
Good advice.
.
Science does not rely on a “priesthood” who cannot be questioned.
.
If you cannot understand the evidence, or cannot independently verify it, doesn’t automatically mean it is false.
.
Apply the same level of doubt to “independent thinkers” and YouTube heroes as you do to “conventional” or other speakers.
.
Being an outsider or a rebel doesn’t mean less proof is required. Saying experts are wrong, needs just as much proof as accepting what they say.

adam277:
Not really. Certain people have been suggesting that some people on here should not have an opinion on certain subjects because they are truck drivers.
Others have hinted that the forum mods should remove people on here because they are ‘offended’ by what some people say.

Really?
I thought it was because a regular poster on here who generally makes a lot of sense on anything transport related, was putting his views forward, (not shared by many, including me, but he’s wholly entitled to them) and was accused of being a holocaust denier. :open_mouth: …after posting certain non related links…which the guy totally refuted btw, but the abuse and blunt personal attacks kept on coming,.and thread was locked.
Or am I way off on this and you’re referring to something entirely different :blush:
Apologies if so.

robroy:

adam277:
Not really. Certain people have been suggesting that some people on here should not have an opinion on certain subjects because they are truck drivers.
Others have hinted that the forum mods should remove people on here because they are ‘offended’ by what some people say.

Really?
I thought it was because a regular poster on here who generally makes a lot of sense on anything transport related, was putting his views forward, (not shared by many, including me, but he’s wholly entitled to them) and was accused of being a holocaust denier. :open_mouth: …after posting certain non related links…which the guy totally refuted btw, but the abuse and blunt personal attacks kept on coming,.and thread was locked.
Or am I way off on this and you’re referring to something entirely different :blush:
Apologies if so.

Your not wrong.

robroy:

adam277:
Not really. Certain people have been suggesting that some people on here should not have an opinion on certain subjects because they are truck drivers.
Others have hinted that the forum mods should remove people on here because they are ‘offended’ by what some people say.

Really?
I thought it was because a regular poster on here who generally makes a lot of sense on anything transport related, was putting his views forward, (not shared by many, including me, but he’s wholly entitled to them) and was accused of being a holocaust denier. :open_mouth: …after posting certain non related links…which the guy totally refuted btw, but the abuse and blunt personal attacks kept on coming,.and thread was locked.
Or am I way off on this and you’re referring to something entirely different :blush:
Apologies if so.

More like the topic in question seems to have been nuked rather than rightly being shifted to Bullies.
It looked more like a typical biotech industry proponent coup against any dissenting voices of caution and the mods possibly caved in.IE the OP asked an inconvenient question and the answers didn’t go the way that the establishment would have liked.
Ironically the OP of the topic was obviously broadly in agreement with the poster in question regarding the subject as posted.
As I was albeit for possibly different reasons with a resulting different conclusion.I’ll take the second jab like the first.But not because I have the slightest trust in the biotech industry and least of all the politicians and their useful idiot supporters and the narrative they are forcing down our throats.
theguardian.com/science/2017 … epsy-cases

I watched it all unfold last night, at 1st I must admit I was siding with the guy from Delia county but then it got unbelievably serious and personal and the guy was coming across as if he was on something, I wasn’t surprised it had all disappeared this morning.