hi everyone .to cut a long story short,vosa are taking me and 3 other drivers to court next month for exceding the 4.5 hours driving time on a job driving a refuse truck collecting trade waste from pub ,shops,ect we were told by the company this job was exempt from tacho hours hence after a vosa spot check i had 4 occasions of driving over the 4.5 hours rule before taking half hour break, having taken a quarter of an hour earlier on all 4 occasions, the extra time after 4.5 hrs was between 30 and 60 mins.this is going to be the first blot on my licence in 21 yrs,what can i expect from the judge,this isnt sitting at a steering wheel for hours on end on a motorway,it is putting euro bins on a bin lift and getting in and out the cab like a yo yo with a loading assistant helping me…any views greatfully received thanks.
See if you can get the company to confirm that they did indeed instruct you to disregard hours regulations?
Thought you would be exempt but reading a vosa guide 2009 and it says;
refuse and disposal operations likely to be exempt are; the door to door collection of black bin bags,green waste,newspapers or glass from households:
says there have been a number of court rulings to do with this theme?
couldnt find anything to do with trade collections.
I can see the judge looking into past court rulings to see if this fits into the exemption of whether the use of the refuse collection vehicle is secondary to the task performed or not.
If the judge thinks it is not and yet he has a number of drivers in front of him who are all saying that the company said different then I think he will take a very leanient view on those drivers and be very harsh with the company.
Only time will tell…
Get your lawyer to get the guy in the office that told you you were exempt in court. It’ll help in reducing your fine and could even result in a conditional discharge. It could get the guy in the office in the ■■■■, so get as many witnesses to his instructions as you can. The guy will be in the witness box under oath. If he lies he would be in even deeper ■■■■ and could end up in the big house.
If the firm your working for supplies the lawyer, you should understand the lawyer represents the company first and you second. Get your own lawyer and do the company for costs. If you get one on legal aid he couldn’t give a toss about you. He’s only there for the money and has probably only spent the time it takes him to drive to court to think about your case.
A good Union rep may also be able to help as most unions have their own lawyers
ROG:
A good Union rep may also be able to help as most unions have their own lawyers
They will supply a £5 a job fresh out of law school student at best. Wouldn’t rely on any union lawyer.
It might have been that the guvnor made a mistake with the Article 3 exemptions?.Specialised BREAKDOWN vehicles working within a 100kms radius?.An easy one to make considering that unlike me the regs did’nt highlight the difference?.
vwvanman0:
Thought you would be exempt but reading a vosa guide 2009 and it says;
refuse and disposal operations likely to be exempt are; the door to door collection of black bin bags,green waste,newspapers or glass from households:says there have been a number of court rulings to do with this theme?
couldnt find anything to do with trade collections.
AIUI the exemption is limited to work undertaken by local authorities.
I think this has already been answered both here and in a recent post about trade waste, when I find it I will re-edit this & post it in here.
Well it wasn’t quite the thread I was looking for but it does explain the exemptions, this came from (he who should be obeyed geebee45) regarding a company moving waste between 2 factories.
The bit about driving not being your main employment basically means; if you lost your ability to drive, would you still be employable by the company as a machine operator, hole digger, scaffolder etc?
Try changing any of the above skills to bin emptier, would you still be employable?
I think you need the bloke who told you that you were exempt to stand up and admit it was he. It seems if you could convince the magistrate that you can operate on domestic rules, you can also get away with driving over 4.5hrs. until the new domestic rules are adopted anyway. (see link below)
dft.gov.uk/consultations/ope … tation.pdf
From the VOSA booklet…
There have been a number of significant court rulings
from the European Court of Justice and British courts
dealing with this exemption. Common themes have
included a direct and close involvement in the exempt
activity; the principle of a general service in the public
interest; and the limited and secondary nature of the
transport activity.
It is our view that vehicles used in connection with
sewerage, flood protection, water, gas and electricity
services must be involved in the maintenance of an
existing service (rather than the construction of a new
service) to claim the concession.The types of refuse collection and disposal operations
likely to be exempt are: the door-to-door collection of
black bin bags, green waste, newspapers or glass from
households; the collection of sofas and household
appliances from households within a local area; and the
clearing of a home following a bereavement, provided
refuse collection and disposal is the core purpose.
you need to get your lawyer to fully understand your issues
1 - you have always worked this way not knowing that there was
a conflict with the law.
2 - you had a brew in morning then took a second break for lunch
3 - you accept the error of your ways but were guided by the companies advice
a thing arises if you are excempt from 4.5 driving why were you using a taco
if the judge has half a brain he will give you minumum fine & points
if he has full brain he could grant conditional discharge
and if he has no brain you will be made an example off
i would say if you should have been covered by regs you have committed an offence
good luck