No doubt the question Im about to ask has been asked many times by wannabe truck drivers, so please be patient.
I have found a Scania Bullnose that I want to purchase and to drive on my C1 licence. Im able to drive it as a consequence of passing my driving test before 1997. I have been informed that the vehicle is below 7.5 ton even with the fifth wheel on. My question is this; am I obliged in law to remove the fifth wheel even though I have no intention of using it for transporting goods?
I actually I just want to cover it or immobilise it as removing it and putting back once a year for its mot seems absurd.
My other question is does anyone have an idea of the difference in fuel usage when using a tractor unit 4x2 without a trailor unit attached to it. And finally what truckers out there have driven a Scania Bullnose and what are your opinions about them.
Thanking you in anticipation.
Gerard G612ARD.
GERARD2223:
I have found a Scania Bullnose that I want to purchase and to drive on my C1 licence.
~snip~
I have been informed that the vehicle is below 7.5 ton even with the fifth wheel on.
That surprises me, I’m not saying it’s wrong and I have no idea what it would weigh but it does surprise me that it could come in at no more than 7.5
Firstly you can do whatever you like with the 5th wheel. My Stepson only recently passed his test so doesn’t have B+E on his car licence but that doesn’t mean I have to take the towbar off my car whenever he drives it, and it’s no different for trucks. In fact there’s nothing stopping you putting a semitrailer on the back if you can find one light enough. You won’t be able to though unless you build it yourself as although your licence will no doubt have C1+E on it, it will be with a restriction limiting the Gross Train Weight of the unit+trailer combination to 8250kg. So (assuming the unit itself comes in at, or very close to, 7500kg) unless you can build a semitrailer that weighs less than about 750kg it’s a non starter
This same rules does though mean if you wanted to you could fit a standard towbar and stick a small caravan on the back when you go to shows.
Secondly WEIGH THAT SCANIA BEFORE YOU BUY IT. It’s all very well being told that it’s under 7500kg but if you buy it and find it isn’t, you’re not going to be a happy bunny. Even if it is under 7500kg remember if you want two people, their luggage and a few hundred litres of diesel in there you’re adding 500kg to whatever you weigh it at, so it really needs to sit empty on a weighbridge at under 7000kg to be of any use. Personally I doubt this will be the case.
Thirdly, and assuming it is under 7500kg, you can’t just drive it on your C1 licence. BEFORE you drive it on the road you need to get it downplated to 7500kg or you’re driving without a licence (and therefore also driving without insurance). I know it seems daft but as long as the plate is reading 17 or 18ton (or whatever it is plated at now) then even if it weighs less than your family car then you’re not legal to drive it. And that still goes if you take the fifth wheel off, don’t let people confuse you with that old legislation.
In the majority of instances it is no longer a requirement to make a technical change when downplating a vehicle. Downplating is now carried out by declaration without examination provided a plating certificate is in force and the alterations do not affect the road safety of the vehicle. Downplating below 7.5t still requires a technical change.
For general enquires on uprating/downplating procedures call the Vehicle Inspectorate Technical Services Branch on 01792 458888
The VITSB is based at: The Goods Vehicle Centre, 91/92 the Strand, Swansea, SA1 2DH. The VTISB has produced a general guide “Replating Vehicles to the New Higher Weights” which is available from local test stations.
IMPORTANT NOTICE
The downplating arrangements are NOT intended as a way for an operator to avoid any legal responsibilities or obligations. For downplating vehicles to 7.5 and 3.5 tonnes GVW, or lower, it is STILL necessary to carry out physical alterations to the vehicle. The requirements for vocational (HGV) driving licences, operator licence and drivers hours (tachographs) are based on the design weight of the vehicle. Downplating as described here does not involve any changes to the design weights. In cases where such alterations are required, operators should contact the original vehicle manufacturer or specialist convertor. Unfortunately, VI Technical Services or Test Stations cannot advise operators on individual options for vehicle downplating. For specific advice on downplating an individual vehicle operators should contact their dealer or vehicle manufacturer. However, VITS can provide information on general downplating procedures.
tachograph:
That surprises me, I’m not saying it’s wrong and I have no idea what it would weigh but it does surprise me that it could come in at no more than 7.5
I’m sure you could get one below 7.5 tonnes for annual test purposes with a set of spanners
Firstly you can do whatever you like with the 5th wheel. My Stepson only recently passed his test so doesn’t have B+E on his car licence but that doesn’t mean I have to take the towbar off my car whenever he drives it, and it’s no different for trucks. In fact there’s nothing stopping you putting a semitrailer on the back if you can find one light enough. You won’t be able to though unless you build it yourself as although your licence will no doubt have C1+E on it, it will be with a restriction limiting the Gross Train Weight of the unit+trailer combination to 8250kg. So (assuming the unit itself comes in at, or very close to, 7500kg) unless you can build a semitrailer that weighs less than about 750kg it’s a non starter
This same rules does though mean if you wanted to you could fit a standard towbar and stick a small caravan on the back when you go to shows.
Secondly WEIGH THAT SCANIA BEFORE YOU BUY IT. It’s all very well being told that it’s under 7500kg but if you buy it and find it isn’t, you’re not going to be a happy bunny. Even if it is under 7500kg remember if you want two people, their luggage and a few hundred litres of diesel in there you’re adding 500kg to whatever you weigh it at, so it really needs to sit empty on a weighbridge at under 7000kg to be of any use. Personally I doubt this will be the case.
Thirdly, and assuming it is under 7500kg, you can’t just drive it on your C1 licence. BEFORE you drive it on the road you need to get it downplated to 7500kg or you’re driving without a licence (and therefore also driving without insurance). I know it seems daft but as long as the plate is reading 17 or 18ton (or whatever it is plated at now) then even if it weighs less than your family car then you’re not legal to drive it. And that still goes if you take the fifth wheel off, don’t let people confuse you with that old legislation.
Paul
Thank you for taking the time to reply, it is appreciated. I have just emailed the firm that are selling it and requesting again to know the exact weight of the vehicle and to ask about the downplating etc. as one would say, If it hasnt been written it hasnt been said!
Gerard
In the majority of instances it is no longer a requirement to make a technical change when downplating a vehicle. Downplating is now carried out by declaration without examination provided a plating certificate is in force and the alterations do not affect the road safety of the vehicle. Downplating below 7.5t still requires a technical change.
For general enquires on uprating/downplating procedures call the Vehicle Inspectorate Technical Services Branch on 01792 458888
The VITSB is based at: The Goods Vehicle Centre, 91/92 the Strand, Swansea, SA1 2DH. The VTISB has produced a general guide “Replating Vehicles to the New Higher Weights” which is available from local test stations.
IMPORTANT NOTICE
The downplating arrangements are NOT intended as a way for an operator to avoid any legal responsibilities or obligations. For downplating vehicles to 7.5 and 3.5 tonnes GVW, or lower, it is STILL necessary to carry out physical alterations to the vehicle. The requirements for vocational (HGV) driving licences, operator licence and drivers hours (tachographs) are based on the design weight of the vehicle. Downplating as described here does not involve any changes to the design weights. In cases where such alterations are required, operators should contact the original vehicle manufacturer or specialist convertor. Unfortunately, VI Technical Services or Test Stations cannot advise operators on individual options for vehicle downplating. For specific advice on downplating an individual vehicle operators should contact their dealer or vehicle manufacturer. However, VITS can provide information on general downplating procedures.
All very useful information I will now be contacting DVLA enquiring how to downplate it etc. Thank you
Firstly you can do whatever you like with the 5th wheel. My Stepson only recently passed his test so doesn’t have B+E on his car licence but that doesn’t mean I have to take the towbar off my car whenever he drives it, and it’s no different for trucks. In fact there’s nothing stopping you putting a semitrailer on the back if you can find one light enough. You won’t be able to though unless you build it yourself as although your licence will no doubt have C1+E on it, it will be with a restriction limiting the Gross Train Weight of the unit+trailer combination to 8250kg. So (assuming the unit itself comes in at, or very close to, 7500kg) unless you can build a semitrailer that weighs less than about 750kg it’s a non starter
This same rules does though mean if you wanted to you could fit a standard towbar and stick a small caravan on the back when you go to shows.
Secondly WEIGH THAT SCANIA BEFORE YOU BUY IT. It’s all very well being told that it’s under 7500kg but if you buy it and find it isn’t, you’re not going to be a happy bunny. Even if it is under 7500kg remember if you want two people, their luggage and a few hundred litres of diesel in there you’re adding 500kg to whatever you weigh it at, so it really needs to sit empty on a weighbridge at under 7000kg to be of any use. Personally I doubt this will be the case.
Thirdly, and assuming it is under 7500kg, you can’t just drive it on your C1 licence. BEFORE you drive it on the road you need to get it downplated to 7500kg or you’re driving without a licence (and therefore also driving without insurance). I know it seems daft but as long as the plate is reading 17 or 18ton (or whatever it is plated at now) then even if it weighs less than your family car then you’re not legal to drive it. And that still goes if you take the fifth wheel off, don’t let people confuse you with that old legislation.
Paul
Im quite confused now actually. I contacted the VTISB today and they told me that they do not downplate anything below 7.5ton. Hmmmmm.
nick2008:
why would you want to replace the 5th wheel once a year for it’s MOT
I was informed that I had to take the 5th wheel off as I would be using the vehicle as a private hgv but I was also told that I would have to put it back on each year for the mot. With the 5th wheel off it is classed as an incomplete vehicle and could not be mot as such. However, there are truckers here advising me that I do not have to take the 5th wheel off as the truck will be under 7.5 ton.
Firstly you can do whatever you like with the 5th wheel. My Stepson only recently passed his test so doesn’t have B+E on his car licence but that doesn’t mean I have to take the towbar off my car whenever he drives it, and it’s no different for trucks. In fact there’s nothing stopping you putting a semitrailer on the back if you can find one light enough. You won’t be able to though unless you build it yourself as although your licence will no doubt have C1+E on it, it will be with a restriction limiting the Gross Train Weight of the unit+trailer combination to 8250kg. So (assuming the unit itself comes in at, or very close to, 7500kg) unless you can build a semitrailer that weighs less than about 750kg it’s a non starter
This same rules does though mean if you wanted to you could fit a standard towbar and stick a small caravan on the back when you go to shows.
Secondly WEIGH THAT SCANIA BEFORE YOU BUY IT. It’s all very well being told that it’s under 7500kg but if you buy it and find it isn’t, you’re not going to be a happy bunny. Even if it is under 7500kg remember if you want two people, their luggage and a few hundred litres of diesel in there you’re adding 500kg to whatever you weigh it at, so it really needs to sit empty on a weighbridge at under 7000kg to be of any use. Personally I doubt this will be the case.
Thirdly, and assuming it is under 7500kg, you can’t just drive it on your C1 licence. BEFORE you drive it on the road you need to get it downplated to 7500kg or you’re driving without a licence (and therefore also driving without insurance). I know it seems daft but as long as the plate is reading 17 or 18ton (or whatever it is plated at now) then even if it weighs less than your family car then you’re not legal to drive it. And that still goes if you take the fifth wheel off, don’t let people confuse you with that old legislation.
Paul
Im quite confused now actually. I contacted the VTISB today and they told me that they do not downplate anything below 7.5ton. Hmmmmm.
The downplating arrangements are NOT intended as a way for an operator to avoid any legal responsibilities or obligations. For downplating vehicles to 7.5 and 3.5 tonnes GVW, or lower, it is STILL necessary to carry out physical alterations to the vehicle. The requirements for vocational (HGV) driving licences, operator licence and drivers hours (tachographs) are based on the design weight of the vehicle. Downplating as described here does not involve any changes to the design weights. In cases where such alterations are required, operators should contact the original vehicle manufacturer or specialist convertor. Unfortunately, VI Technical Services or Test Stations cannot advise operators on individual options for vehicle downplating. For specific advice on downplating an individual vehicle operators should contact their dealer or vehicle manufacturer. However, VITS can provide information on general downplating procedures.
Because the answers are in the original post I sent you, the design or plated weight is the one that matters, this comes in the same brackets as the driver who goes over a bridge in an artic when the sign says 18t GVW even though the artic only weighs 14t empty
The reason for downplating a truck is to save on VED, not to save having to pay a driver extra wages. I posted several days ago, that if you want a motorhome, go and buy a ready made one, if you want to drive a fancy truck ring one of the many national training brokers and get rid of your money that way.
I am sure Data Academy or Peter Smythe will also relieve you of a few quid
Or if you are amongst the super rich, we can arrange a delivery crew and drive your gin palace to Monaco for the summer while you fly out on BargainAir
I have just noticed that Gerard already has a PSV, wouldn’t it be easier to convert a coach or stick some extra seats in his motorhome
Wheel Nut:
I have just noticed that Gerard already has a PSV, wouldn’t it be easier to convert a coach or stick some extra seats in his motorhome
Good point !!
Putting between 9 and 17 seats in it would automatically make it a PCV D1 - no tacho needed and no weight probs according to DVLA as they have stated the rules that if more than 9 seats then it is a PCV.
