Started off £10.60 per hour umbrella but then decided to go PAYE so it is £9.60
As I initially said in my first post I was told by my agency that from midnight to 4am you get a higher rate of pay but that seems to have been overlooked. Anyway it is £9.60 whatever I work and it seems I was wrong to complain about it.
I remember Tesco doing the same, although they quoted an hourly rate then after you started they said it was after midnight and weekend rate. Actual rate was £1.50 less an hour.
It’s got to be a game to some of them, just get them to start the job then we’ve got em…
Doesn’t all this confusion come down to the fact that some agencies pay different amounts for different jobs. Because they can’t be arsed to so much as send an email with “the next shift’s rate” on it, it’s wide open to abuse - ie “say” it’s this amount, but on the payslip is a much lower amount… Plenty of opportunity to lie, cheat, and steal someone’s wages.
Isn’t it better therefore to be considered an “honest” agency by merely paying the same rate for ANY job during certain hours, ie. there is a day rate, a night rate, a Saturday rate, a sunday rate.
The driver pay rates are set by the agency - NOT the client customer whatever Billy Bullcrap at the agency happens to say. The Client tells the agency what they will pay THEM. The agency in turn, decides what they’ll pay YOU. The margin variance, also known as “liars premium” is when that differential or profit margin changes from shift to shift, despite it otherwise being the same job.
The going rate might be, say, £13ph, but the newbie bod might allow themselves to be palmed off with £9.50, because he doesn’t know any better. The type of consultant we’ve all met at some point I’m sure, that is always “trying it on” to get us to take a job below par. There seems to be a HUGE difference between pay rates with agency going into Morrisons for example. One minute it’s “Upto £14ph”, and the next it’s “£8.50 on Tuesdays and Wednesdays”… WTF? - Yup, I know, I can’t say I understand this either, but there it is. I did two shifts on a sunday night expecting top dollar, and got palmed off with £11, I assume because you need it to be “Bank Holiday sunday night” rather than any old sunday night or some similar small-print ■■■■■■■■ to get the premium rate originally promised…
Might I suggest we all boycott the “white shirt speak with forked tongue” so-called ‘Consultants"’ and gather around those minority (it seems) of agencies that play it straight? 
We won’t have the shysters go bust until we just don’t go there anymore!
There’s x amount of work to be covered by y drivers. If x increases, and y decreases, then there’s going to be a LOT of unfilled shifts during busy periods…
The time of “too many y and not enough x” is coming to an end - as all cycles do.
THEN we’ll see a cull of those who’ve paid little heed towards “retention” over the years of this recession… 
Yet again Winseer puts it well with a good method of putting the liars and cheating arses on the dole where they belong.
Unfortunately that requires drivers to have the nous to stick together instead of stabbing each other in the back, a difficult concept at the best of times.
At a local level, that would require agency drivers to talk honestly with each other, and that isn’t going to happen because the agencies each usually have a reliable ■■■■■■■■■ of good drivers who get the correct pay and the best shifts…bit like some shop stewards if you like and they arn’t going to rock their own boats.
All you can do as an individual agency driver is learn from your mistakes and when you get the p*** taken out of you move on till you find the ones who do play the game.
I’ll name a fair agency in the midlands, played it straight with me and i have no complaints about my time with them, they told me the rate which was better than the competition and didn’t try any sneaky tricks… thats Igloo… when i went back into full time my pay was squared up correctly including owed holiday pay.
edit…no i forgot i did the right thing IMHO and gave them a weeks notice when i was leaving, they didn’t offer me another shift once i’d given notice but have texted me several times since asking if i have work, until i got hold of admin there and got my number removed, not getting another shift i had already banked on and wanted a week off before me new job so dropping me suited us both…
Just out of interest to any others who get pestered by texts and phone calls from agencies they’ve never heard of long after they no longer need them, my phone has an option to block calls/texts from certain numbers so thats why i now only get the odd call from strange companies who i’ve never worked for but no doubt have got hold of number lists from unscrupulous ‘‘consultants’’…ha bloody ha consultant my arse.
I think you only count as a night worker if your shift starts between midnight and 4am. At least the WTD defines it as this. Since your shift started before midnight you are not counted as a night worker even though you will be working through those hours … hence the lower rate.
Ched:
I think you only count as a night worker if your shift starts between midnight and 4am. At least the WTD defines it as this. Since your shift started before midnight you are not counted as a night worker even though you will be working through those hours … hence the lower rate.
Totally wrong, I’m afraid. The RTD makes no reference to the time your shift starts when defining a “night worker”.
Ched:
I think you only count as a night worker if your shift starts between midnight and 4am. At least the WTD defines it as this. Since your shift started before midnight you are not counted as a night worker even though you will be working through those hours … hence the lower rate.
If a driver of a goods vehicle does any work during the hours from 00:00 to 04:00 he’s classed as a night worker for the RT(WT)R, what time you start or finish work doesn’t come into it, you just have to do some work between those times.
The same applies to PCV drivers but the times are 01:00 to 05:00.
To be honest I think things are going to get worse rather than better. What is being left out of the argument here is the fact that the agencies have a ready made supply of cheap labour at their disposal who are prepared to work for minimum wage and below that. How can you work for less than minimum wage I hear you cry? Easy, the new agency driver works 13 hours but lets the agency only pay him for 10 at £7 an hour effectively getting £70/13= £5.38 per hour. Times this by 5 days a week and you can see the incentive for the agency only to take on economic immigrants from the east who are quite happy with the pay. The week I did my class 1 test 2 weeks ago there were 3 polish drivers sitting their test that week. At my present agency 2 polish drivers have just started but I don’t know what licences they have.
Roymondo:
Ched:
I think you only count as a night worker if your shift starts between midnight and 4am. At least the WTD defines it as this. Since your shift started before midnight you are not counted as a night worker even though you will be working through those hours … hence the lower rate.Totally wrong, I’m afraid. The RTD makes no reference to the time your shift starts when defining a “night worker”.
Yes sorry I stand corrected. Just read up on it. I’m never going to believe another thing my TM tells me.
What has that even got to do with the argument?
This looks like nothing more than an agency-bashing thread because you’re in a position in which you’re relying on agency for work and you haven’t been presented with £20 an hour wrapped in gold-plated ribbon. I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove.
It’s been pointed out that you were told your day rate (£8.50), given the window for nights (24:00-04:00) and the rate (£9.60).
Night Out applies to when you’re staying in your cab in-between two days work. If you work Monday, stay out Monday night, work Tuesday - you’re paid ~£20-25 for the inconvenience of staying in your motor as opposed to being home for the night, plus the two shifts either side.
The £10 meal allowance ‘thrown in’ is rather generous, certainly not something your consultant is obliged to do.
Your consultant isn’t liable for your ‘usual meal time’ either. I would imagine if you’re working nights, your sleep pattern is going to change too (I’d hope so at least!). You have a choice whether you want to work days or nights; if nights aren’t suitable for you - turn the work down. Just understand that if you’re open to both days & nights, chances are you’ll have more opportunity. I’d be surprised if you’re eating dinner at 23:00 if you’re working at 04:00 too.
I’d always recommend signing with multiple agencies also - if you register with a few, which I appreciate will take some time - you’ll soon learn who’s offering the most consistent, regular work at an agreeable rate. It’s also favourable to maintain a positive relationship with all of them given you might find you rely on someone else if work dries up with the present agency.
With regards to Eastern Europeans being prepared to work for lesser wages - everyone has to compete with it. Personally speaking, the few Eastern Europeans that are registered with me (I’m going to put a rough guesstimate on no more than 10% of the drivers) all work for precisely the same rate as the British fellas (and lady). If anyone’s discriminatory against Polish and suchlike, it’s clients that have communication concerns, so I really don’t think it’s as bad as you’re making out. As for the three Poles taking their Class 1 test at the same time you were; what’s the difference between you taking it, and them taking it?
Your pay rate in this instance has no relevance to the “lies that Agencies come out with”, because I’m pretty sure the consultant has informed you of rates and been consistent with his information.
Edit ~ I’m sure someone else asked but I haven’t seen a response, why were you docked 5 hours last week exactly…? If there was no reason whatsoever for it, I’m sure you wouldn’t be working for the agency anyway. If my boss decided to take 5 hours money off me for no reason I’m pretty sure I’d be out the door rather sharpish.
You need to sort out what you want …
Night pay rate has ALWAYS been 18.00 hrs to 06.00hrs
What the agencies will try and do is if you start before 18.00 pay you day rate all through the shift I make sure if i’m starting at 16.00 i’m paid day rate till 18.00 then night rate.
night out pay is as said if your night outed away from home ( not working ) … you have been asked to have a night out as all the work cant be done in one shift. this rate is NOT as some think and say, to sleep in the cab, its a payment made as your not at your normal home location… you may use the rate to book digs but they will only pay X amount norm about £23, if you sleep in the cab your pocketing this payment (tax Free up to a certain amount)
Yes I see now, what an ungrateful so and so I am. There was me thinking I am hard done by when in reality the agency is doing me a big fat favour. I was working nights before I did my class 1 and had a job driving a 7.5 tonner from Wakefield to Eurocentral Glasgow for £9.75 an hour start at 1900 finish 0500. I was better off doing that than all this strapping loads unloading/loading shunting and uncoupling/coupling all night for £9.60 an hour. 11 trailers I did one night and I calculated that 80% was pulling straps 20% driving. OK that is not every night sometimes it is 50/50. When the job was “sold” to me it was “you only work 5 hours and we pay you 8. It is only trunking dropping a trailer and picking one up”. I am sure three are lots of agencies on here slating me but any drivers HGV 2 thinking about taking class 1 beware.
If you were receiving £9.75ph for driving a 7.5t on an easy night trunk type thing you were, I would imagine, on a very good number there. Certainly the going rate for 7.5t work as advertised in the local rag around here is around the £7ph mark and that is for home delivery-type jobs which I would imagine feature a lot of heavy lifting of fridges, ovens and so on.
The basic facts of the matter regarding your ascent to class one level are thus: you have, in the scheme of things, no experience whatsoever. You aren’t going to walk into an agency as a new bod that neither they nor their clients have seen before and jump straight into the easy 10-12hr trunks that feature one trailer swap, back and finished, and rightly so because that wouldn’t be fair on the agency’s existing drivers who have been there for a while and done their fair share of the less desirable jobs.
You start at the bottom and work your way up, hence why you’ve been given a job which is only apparently 20% driving. In the agency world it seems to me that doing the job right and not moaning about stuff will help you pick the good work up reasonably quickly. Calling them and asking for more money, night out payments that you aren’t entitled to and so on is unlikely to endear you to the agency’s consultant, and unless a client has requested you by name it is the agency which holds all the trump cards.
I hope it doesn’t come across as blunt or rude but that is how it is, and no doubt will continue to be. You need to deal with it or do something else.
alder:
… I was working nights before I did my class 1 and had a job driving a 7.5 tonner from Wakefield to Eurocentral Glasgow for £9.75 an hour start at 1900 finish 0500. I was better off doing that than all this …
Then go back to it. Derrr!
You’re still not elaborating your point clearly.
The agency has offered you a job, stated the pay rate, and you’ve accepted it. There seems to be some discrepancy with regards to what the job was put across as and what it actually entailed, none of which you mentioned in your original post.
Your discrepancy is based on your rate of pay, which is fine, but not the fault of the agency. I previously advised you register with other agencies which opens up the availability of work and therefore the type of work & rates available to you.
Common practice is that there is an 8 hour guarantee even if your shifts are shorter - if this job in particular was sold to you as a 5 hour trunk run with a single trailer swap and return, then yes, you’ve been misled. Your consultant is more than likely misinformed and / or struggling to cover the job at the rate offered and therefore I can sympathise with you. I have no idea on rates in the West Yorkshire area but they are short of what you would expect in Kent / Essex.
I’m pretty sure there aren’t lots of agencies on here slating you, or on here full stop. At least you’ve worked for this client however and you’re now in a better position to turn to your consultant and say the work isn’t suited to your requirements and inquire about something else. Again; in your shoes I would be visiting some other agencies. No reason to turn down work from your present should they have something better on offer for you however.
macci:
Mate - you are getting proper shafted. What happened to the £10.60p\h rate on a 5pm til 10pm shift but paid for eight hours?Night out rate is as explained above. If you do that, then the rate varies from £22 \ £27 a night (guide).
The Brum run was just standard run of the mill everyday \ night stuff.
You and the agency need to sit down for a chat in order for you to get a clearer understanding of what you get paid for and any allowances available, if any.
Do yourself a favour, don’t start thinking this is the job where you can make demands for more money or have thoughts of being home for lunch. We’re not footballers.
You can’t knock £8.50p\h class 1 though as a new pass. Once you get more experience, the better paid jobs will be more available for you.
Yes you can… I just did and it upped my rate by over two quid an hour…and they were happy to pay it on all but one of the contracts available.
Agencies start with the least they think they can get away with and if you’re thick, you’ll accept it. If not you’ll get a better rate. If they don’t better it, you move on to the next. In January, it may not work, but at the moment it can and does folks.
Drivers so often forget that you tell them what you work for - not the other way around! 
FreddieSwan:
What has that even got to do with the argument?This looks like nothing more than an agency-bashing thread because you’re in a position in which you’re relying on agency for work and you haven’t been presented with £20 an hour wrapped in gold-plated ribbon. I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove.
It is, as the thread title suggests. This thread indeed represents “agency drivers talking to each other” so we don’t fall for the same scams that seem endemic within the industry right now.It’s been pointed out that you were told your day rate (£8.50), given the window for nights (24:00-04:00) and the rate (£9.60).
Night Out applies to when you’re staying in your cab in-between two days work. If you work Monday, stay out Monday night, work Tuesday - you’re paid ~£20-25 for the inconvenience of staying in your motor as opposed to being home for the night, plus the two shifts either side.
The £10 meal allowance ‘thrown in’ is rather generous, certainly not something your consultant is obliged to do.Your consultant isn’t liable for your ‘usual meal time’ either. I would imagine if you’re working nights, your sleep pattern is going to change too (I’d hope so at least!). You have a choice whether you want to work days or nights; if nights aren’t suitable for you - turn the work down. Just understand that if you’re open to both days & nights, chances are you’ll have more opportunity. I’d be surprised if you’re eating dinner at 23:00 if you’re working at 04:00 too.
I’d always recommend signing with multiple agencies also - if you register with a few, which I appreciate will take some time - you’ll soon learn who’s offering the most consistent, regular work at an agreeable rate. It’s also favourable to maintain a positive relationship with all of them given you might find you rely on someone else if work dries up with the present agency.
I did this originally, but now just work for the single agency - I was fed up with being rung at all hours of day and night being offered a shift I’d already taken or rejected elsewhere.
I only signed up, because it was my understanding that some agencies have exclusive contracts to supply… Big mistake it was chasing THAT it turned out.With regards to Eastern Europeans being prepared to work for lesser wages - everyone has to compete with it. Personally speaking, the few Eastern Europeans that are registered with me (I’m going to put a rough guesstimate on no more than 10% of the drivers) all work for precisely the same rate as the British fellas (and lady). If anyone’s discriminatory against Polish and suchlike, it’s clients that have communication concerns, so I really don’t think it’s as bad as you’re making out. As for the three Poles taking their Class 1 test at the same time you were; what’s the difference between you taking it, and them taking it?
This translates as "Regular home-grown drivers have had their pay pushed DOWN to the level towards minimum wage - BECAUSE an immigrant is prepared to work for less.Your pay rate in this instance has no relevance to the “lies that Agencies come out with”, because I’m pretty sure the consultant has informed you of rates and been consistent with his information.
If I’m told “night rate is £1.50 extra to day rate”, and then after working overnight, I get the day rate, then I’ve been lied to. I’ve had this happen with 17:00 starts finishing at 8am FFS… They wanted to suggest that I’d have to do a shift that started AFTER 6pm and finished BEFORE 6am to qualify for a right-through night rate. Working through those same hours, which any reasonable person would count as “full blown nights” wasn’t going to count of course.Edit ~ I’m sure someone else asked but I haven’t seen a response, why were you docked 5 hours last week exactly…? If there was no reason whatsoever for it, I’m sure you wouldn’t be working for the agency anyway. If my boss decided to take 5 hours money off me for no reason I’m pretty sure I’d be out the door rather sharpish.
If you work 5 shifts in a week, it’s likely you’ll find yourself docked 1 hour each day for “unpaid meal break”. - Explain why that is exactly, even at client firms that pay for their staff across mealbreaks? I’d consider it “proof” if each agency driver starting out at a new client is given a copy of the FULL TIMER’S terms and conditions. There was a time when agency drivers EXPECTED to be paid more everywhere BECAUSE of the inconvenience of having no regular hours. If you cannot “dispense with your own time as you see fit”, then an hour spent “not driving” at work does NOT count as a proper meal break. You must be allowed to leave the premises if desired, and get something to eat - a must! If the official “45 break” doesn’t allow you either of these things, then I’m going to invoice for right-through pay - and expect to be paid it. 
I’m not going to quote line by line Winseer so apologies if I miss anything.
With regards to the thread title, the consultant hasn’t lied to him (at least in accord with the OP), which was my point, and has been pointed out by others. I think he’s more making a case about the rate than he is the consultant actually lying to him which is a completely different issue. I completely appreciate agency-bashing when its justified but given what was said in the OP, I don’t agree in this situation. If you can tell me what’s new about the “scam” described here, I’m open ears.
Ultimately if you didn’t register with multiple agencies initially, you wouldn’t have been able to distinguish between one and the other. Also, if you were well aware of clients that you wouldn’t work for, making that clear to agencies when you register should avoid that problem. Your understanding isn’t wrong; some agencies do have exclusivity - though they will second-tier when they’re struggling to satisfy demand.
Perhaps you should consult your translator, because he’s well short of the mark. I pay Class 2 a minimum of £9 and Class 1 a minimum of £10. I couldn’t care less if you’re black, white, purple, English, Scottish, Jamaican, Polish or Mexican. If you’re a competent driver that turns up for work, gets a good job done with minimal fuss and are genuine - I’ll have work for you. If I don’t have it immediately, I’ll do my best to find you work in a very short window of opportunity. No-one that’s ever driven for me has ever done it for less than £7p/h (3.5t).
I wasn’t responding to what you’ve been told? I was responding to the OP’s post. He was told a day rate. He was told a night rate. He went out to work on nights at the rate he was told prior to commencing work. What’s the problem?
My agency deducts a 45 minute break, daily. Not an hour. It’s a legal requirement on your part to have a break and given that, the client isn’t charged for it either. You’re entitled to a 45 minute break, so take it. If you want to work through it then that’s down to you, but you know it’s being deducted, so why would you? As for why you don’t have the full timers terms and conditions? Because you’re not full time.
FreddieSwan:
I’m not going to quote line by line Winseer so apologies if I miss anything.With regards to the thread title, the consultant hasn’t lied to him (at least in accord with the OP), which was my point, and has been pointed out by others.
Ultimately if you didn’t register with multiple agencies initially, you wouldn’t have been able to distinguish between one and the other. Also, if you were well aware of clients that you wouldn’t work for, making that clear to agencies when you register should avoid that problem. Your understanding isn’t wrong; some agencies do have exclusivity - though they will second-tier when they’re struggling to satisfy demand.
Perhaps you should consult your translator, because he’s well short of the mark. I pay Class 2 a minimum of £9 and Class 1 a minimum of £10. I couldn’t care less if you’re black, white, purple, English, Scottish, Jamaican, Polish or Mexican. If you’re a competent driver that turns up for work, gets a good job done with minimal fuss and are genuine - I’ll have work for you. If I don’t have it immediately, I’ll do my best to find you work in a very short window of opportunity. No-one that’s ever driven for me has ever done it for less than £7p/h (3.5t).
I wasn’t responding to what you’ve been told? I was responding to the OP’s post. He was told a day rate. He was told a night rate. He went out to work on nights at the rate he was told prior to commencing work. What’s the problem?
My agency deducts a 45 minute break, daily. Not an hour. It’s a legal requirement on your part to have a break and given that, the client isn’t charged for it either. You’re entitled to a 45 minute break, so take it. If you want to work through it then that’s down to you, but you know it’s being deducted, so why would you? As for why you don’t have the full timers terms and conditions? Because you’re not full time.
Trying to defend agencies is pointless.
There is no defence for agencies.
Unfortunately the reputation of agencies is such that unless there is a immense change in the way they operate, they will always be regarded by the majority of folk with direct experience of them as a parasitic waste of time.
I have been lied to twice this week by an agency clerk and it’s only Monday…and he will lie to me again before the end of the week…
[/quote]
Trying to defend agencies is pointless.
There is no defence for agencies.
Unfortunately the reputation of agencies is such that unless there is a immense change in the way they operate, they will always be regarded by the majority of folk with direct experience of them as a parasitic waste of time.
I have been lied to twice this week by an agency clerk and it’s only Monday…and he will lie to me again before the end of the week…
[/quote]
Same here did an unexpected night-out ask the client what is the night out rate for the full time drivers £25.00 tax free but when timesheet was handed in agency said that they will only pay £20.00 the night out - asked why to only £20 was told that’s the agreed rate - oh no it’s not I had already spoken to client and was informed that it was £25.00 the night like the full time drivers so where’s the other £5.00 - I do hope you are not going to make a profit from a tax free allowance - the reply was we need to speak with the client - so now awaiting a reply…
