Dunno if anyone else is following, or even just vaguely taking an interest in the Fatal Accident Inquiry surrounding the bin lorry that crashed in Glasgow, but there’s a point/theme that is keeps coming up, and it’s gnawing away at me.
There seems to be this constant focus / suggestion that “someone should have just rammed on the handbrake”. Does anyone else think it’d be an incredibly stupid / dangerous idea to just randomly ram on the handbrake of a loaded truck whilst it’s moving at 20-30mph? Or is it just me?
I’m no expert, and it’s not something I’ve ever actually tried just to see what happens, but I suspect the outcome would also result in death/serious injury - perhaps just to the vehicles crew, but still. Not to mention what could/would happen to the truck/load. I guess the load / type of load is also a factor too.
All for some sort of ‘emergency stop’ button which would quickly bring the vehicle to a (at least semi-controlled) stop, but for me, ramming on the handbrake is not the answer.
If I was a part of the bin crew I would have told the others to hang on to something and threw the deadman on. Yes the lorry would have come to a halt and we would have been thrown violently forward but we would have all walked away.
From what I understand the problem was because the crew couldn’t get through the restraint to pull the park brake (rear seats are separate) so basically they were helpless.
Thats only what i’ve heard and i’ve never driven a bin lorry so don’t know the setup in them vehicles.
Chris1207:
Dunno if anyone else is following, or even just vaguely taking an interest in the Fatal Accident Inquiry surrounding the bin lorry that crashed in Glasgow, but there’s a point/theme that is keeps coming up, and it’s gnawing away at me.
There seems to be this constant focus / suggestion that “someone should have just rammed on the handbrake”. Does anyone else think it’d be an incredibly stupid / dangerous idea to just randomly ram on the handbrake of a loaded truck whilst it’s moving at 20-30mph? Or is it just me?
The Glasgow evening rag was reporting on this yesterday and I read what it had to say on the train back last night. They are treating the two lads who were in the cab of the bin wagon when this whole sorry tragedy happened like criminals, despite the fact that neither of them have HGV licenses, could not be expected to know where the handbrake was and how to apply it, and would more than likely have frozen with fear when things began to unfold.
The people who are trying to put this kind of slant on it in the media should be ashamed of themselves, although it’s hardly surprising from the sensationalist local press.
A few years ago one of our local bin wagon drivers (a bit of a Jack the Lad) decided to impress his loaders by banging on the park brake while driving along a country lane. I believe he thought it would result in some sort of “handbrake turn” - just like it did in his Corsa/Saxo/Golf etc. What actually happened was that he rolled the wagon on its side. Fortunately no serious injury.
I’ve been taking an interest because we go down that exact road on occasion during peak as we have 2 stores in that area, so it’s interesting to hear. But the council have stopped using large hgvs in pedestrian areas, yet my company send up artics! They keep saying there should be a kill switch in the cab for the crew to use, but I don’t have a kill switch or a crew. What they are saying is one load of tosh and isn’t looking at transport in its entirety “only council bin lorries” I can guarantee Biffa et all still use large hgvs in the area.
It was a freak accident if it could have been stopped on the day then it would have. If it hadn’t been that truck it might have been another.
They need to stop focusing on the accident as their are no answers to be had as long as lorries go into city centres this potentially could happen again. They need to focus on weather the dvla medical is upto scratch, was there support for the driver that if he knew he was unwell he didn’t fear for his job or earnings by taking a sicky that day. Is the city centre his full time route day in and day out as that type eh work can put real strain on you.
It’s easy to come up with what should have happened, what the crew should have done or what we would have done in the same situation, the fact is we just don’t know what we would do. It’s easy when you’re sat at home with time to think about it but life doesn’t work like that.
I wondered, after hearing on the news, how the driver kept his licence given the information that he had blacked out before. I’ve never had a problem like that, or know anyone who has, and I’m not trying to put any blame on him, but having read threads where drivers have had their licences pulled for less I wondered how he still had his.
On the news (radio 4) they were saying that the driver had blacked out once for a few minutes a few years previously when he was a bus driver, but was passed fit at last medical.
This is going to end up like most RAF fatal accident inquiries into aircraft loss. It will decide on Human error or human blame - so much cheaper than actually having to do something.
Chris1207:
There seems to be this constant focus / suggestion that “someone should have just rammed on the handbrake”. Does anyone else think it’d be an incredibly stupid / dangerous idea to just randomly ram on the handbrake of a loaded truck whilst it’s moving at 20-30mph? Or is it just me?
Not as stupid as not doing it and allowing the vehicle to continue its journey. DVLA medical alterations wouldn’t make a bit of difference in guaranteeing a driver couldn’t be taken ill at the wheel and incapacitated.
Also whilst I’ve not done it I’ve often wondered what would happen if I did pull the brake lever as I drove down the motorway.
Conor:
Also whilst I’ve not done it I’ve often wondered what would happen if I did pull the brake lever as I drove down the motorway.
Probably scary brown stain moment!
Park brake is an on off switch and how the press can say it should have been applied by just anyone is gutter press. I can imagine the other headline if anyone did and it rammed into something else. You can’t win with the press.
I remember years ago my old man using the parking brake to slow going down a hill( and no I have no idea why I was only 15/16) but I do remember that if he got it wrong it slid like crazy as he used to say very very gently and it will slow ! I noticed he hardly moved it and it made a difference. In a modern system, no thanks !
098Joe:
On the news (radio 4) they were saying that the driver had blacked out once for a few minutes a few years previously when he was a bus driver, but was passed fit at last medical.
The inquiry has heard from a First Bus inspector, who said that when the bin wagon driver worked for First he once blacked out at the wheel, although fortunately when the bus was stationary. The Guardian reckons that after he ‘came round’ he drove to the next stop, where the inspector happened to be, and was removed from the bus.
I personally wouldn’t drive a vehicle that passengers could immobilise with the push of a button. If I’m crossing a busy junction I wouldn’t want someone whacking the button with their workbag, or thinking it was a jolly jape to suddenly stop the truck in busy traffic flows.
Trouble is with the way transport operators are nowadays, few people would admit to any medical conditions. How many of us have driven when riddled with flu, or other conditions where our ability to drive was impaired (including hangovers and sleepless nights)?
The handbrake is classed as a ‘secondary’ brake on modern vehicles. It is progressive and is not on or off depending how much the lever is applied. Quite how the new electric type park brake operates I don’t know because I haven’t used one. If the driver was incapacitated with his foot on the throttle then the retardation would be much reduced and, the engine with momentum can quickly overrun the brakes.
Ok, little bit alarming the lack of knowledge of park brake lever operation on this thread.
Basically if you yank the parking brake on until it clicks you’re then relying on springs in the drive axle brake chambers to do the stopping. They don’t have great stopping power so you might be surprised how little effect they had - for example, with the bath tipper crash they are not powerful enough to stop the vehicle at all. At MOT they are only tested to hold the vehicle on a typical gradient found on steepish hills in the UK road network.
However, what the park brake lever also does is a secondary function. The first part of the throw, before the lever clicks, applies the brakes as if you were using the foot pedal, and like the foot pedal, the further you pull it the harder it applies them - up to the point you meet the resistance before it clicks.
If when you next coast in slow traffic try slowly pulling the lever on and you should be able to pull up perfectly safely.
My supervisor mechanic was driving it for a test drive. I was a passenger, trainee mechanic. We were looking for a strange banging noise on the roof. The noise use to come up only when u close the roof window. So i remember i went on to a ramp behind cab. 5 miles later on a speed up to 30 mph i found the ■■■■ problem. Hehe.
On our way back i remember suggesting to the driver, lets test ■■■■■■. Mountain break. It was a manual control and funny enough was next to hand break, and look like one, or close.
well … driver pulls the hand break by mistake, i remember: reaching for a hand break handle but couldn’t undo it, then shock came in and i froze holding for my dear life.
Speed was about 60 to 80 kph 40 mph or so. The lorry did 180 and come to stop . All happened very fast.
ppl can say all they want, but u never know what the one can do in an unexpected situation.
There was a loaded lorry behind us. Lucky he was some distance away so he managed to jack knife his trailer but stooped in time and no damage was done either. I was looking at that lorry coming towards us with trailer sideways like in a dam movie.
Do wonder what the final outcome of this case might be but I do know Mercedes had a braking problem,the brake pedal would on occasions go
right to the floor and you were left with a secondary brake system which was applied by foot and released by a hand lever,think some guy tried it
about 80mph with quite surprising consequences.
