if you get an error just use your back button
it will play
It is a very sober docufilm and one you must see!
Unbelievable
Very poignant on a day like today, why the hell have they voted him back in?
mikemay:
UnbelievableVery poignant on a day like today, why the hell have they voted him back in?
He must be doing something right ,
"In this election, President Bush received more votes than any presidential candidate in our nation’s history " from the BBC website.
Good film TC. I watched it on DVD.
mikemay:
why the hell have they voted him back in?
It’s just my opinion, but I think it’s because he’s kept the americans scared of the bogey man, (with help from ex CIA freind Osama) it’s a very old and proven tactic, scared people are usually quite witless and always infinately malleable.
Incidentally, as I type this they are still counting Ohio, worth 20 points, so it aint 100% decided yet. I dont actually think Kerry would be much better for what it’s worth, both of them seem commited to the theft of Iraqi oil!
I agree Mal. 100% I can’t be bothered now to search online for comparisons, but the difference between what we pay for fuel and what the U.S. folks pay for fuel bares this out. Just do a few sums and see what we are paying for fuel here in the U.K. Greedy gas guzzling Americans would never pay what we do!
runaroundtel:
I agree Mal. 100% I can’t be bothered now to search online for comparisons, but the difference between what we pay for fuel and what the U.S. folks pay for fuel bares this out. Just do a few sums and see what we are paying for fuel here in the U.K. Greedy gas guzzling Americans would never pay what we do!
Try looking a bit closer to home for fuelk price comparisons!!!.
Why Jammy? would that expose the reason why we are paying as much as we do for fuel? I sort of assumed that we were paying the amount that we do because we are subsidising the American fuel guzzling.
Tel, I dont believe our fuel is a rippoff to subsidise the americans. I think you’ll find that we are being fleeced on the fuel by tax, it is said that 75% of the price of every litre is tax. Now then, imagine what HMG is making when BP posted a million quid an hour, (bear in mind they pay for the crude, refine it, ship it, and retail it), the govt get 3 times that revenue, and no overhead out of it, nice eh?
I think you’ll find with the US and it’s foriegn policy (illegal invasion aided and abbeted by us) it is a more complicated type of theft, they want more than just the oil, they want to control it. So that really is all about controlling the region, of course, without the oil they wouldnt want to control the region, but you see what I mean?
runaroundtel:
Why Jammy? would that expose the reason why we are paying as much as we do for fuel? I sort of assumed that we were paying the amount that we do because we are subsidising the American fuel guzzling.
We are one of the most expensive countries in the world for fuel so does that mean we are subsidising the world for its fuel■■? NO it means we are paying too much tax on it, hmmm what i meant was try looking in Europe where we pay more than anyone elsenot just for fuel but almost everything else that has a tax levy on it.
As for the “illegal” war the world is just about to become a safer place thanks to George W when he goes in to Iran and kicks their asses too, then South Korea and any other unsafe countries with nukes…
So petrol is going to get a hell of a lot more expensive before it gets cheaper, i,m not up for a full blown debate about the rights and wrongs of Iraq but i am 110% behind what we did and what we are about to do even though i hate Premier Bliar, i support the anti-terrorism stand he has made.
jammymutt:
As for the “illegal” war the world is just about to become a safer place.
I still don’t understand how the attack on Iraq has made the world a safer place. We now know they never had any WMD and by attacking them we’ve managed to actually encourage all the “Insurgents” and they’re more determined than ever to attack us and the US now. In Iraq we’ve lost the best part of 1500 soldiers and, depending on which estimates you believe, anywhere between 10,000 and 100,000 Iraqi civilians. So even by the lowest estimates this war has killed twice as many people as the 9/11 attacks. By the higher ones it’s more like twenty times. And it’s nowhere near finished yet - there’s years more of it to come.
This is before you even start to consider the cost - I couldn’t find any data for our country but a news.bbc.co.uk article suggested the total cost to the USA for their part could come to $600 billion (that was an estimate of the cost of the war and the amount they’ll spend on rebuilding the place). A google search suggested the population of the USA is about 280 million so that’s well over $2000 for every man, woman and child in the US.
Was it really worth all those lives and all that money to get rid of Saddam?
I don’t think it was.
Are we any safer as a result?
I don’t think we are.
The only difference in the world I can see is a whole lot of people don’t like the USA as much as they used to (and to a lesser extent the UK) and the oil price has rocketed which is slowing down the economy worldwide which hurts us all in the pocket.
Paul
repton:
jammymutt:
This is before you even start to consider the cost - I couldn’t find any data for our country but a news.bbc.co.uk article suggested the total cost to the USA for their part could come to $600 billion (that was an estimate of the cost of the war and the amount they’ll spend on rebuilding the place). A google search suggested the population of the USA is about 280 million so that’s well over $2000 for every man, woman and child in the US.
you may find this link interesting repton costofwar.com/ shows the cost mounting by the second per person and for the US as a whole, However its the unnecessary human cost that gets to me
Its a corrupt war that suits Bush and he has scared his own people into beleiving Iraq was a threat and voting him in again. I agree Iraq was a threat when Bush senior was in but they didnt finish the job when they should have, even Iraqi’s admit that, this war is a huge mistake i cant see it ever calming down there are too many angry people to ever give peace a chance.
Mikemay:
Its a corrupt war that suits Bush and he has scared his own people into beleiving Iraq was a threat and voting him in again. I agree Iraq was a threat when Bush senior was in but they didnt finish the job when they should have, even Iraqi’s admit that, this war is a huge mistake i cant see it ever calming down there are too many angry people to ever give peace a chance.
I believe that is true, terror is a usefull weapon to be employed in subjugating a population, it seems Bush & Co know this only too well! The scared do as they are told, thats self evident.
On the subject of the first Gulf War however things are maybe not as black and white as it was painted, google “April Glaspie”, it should be very illuminating to anyone prepared to examine the facts.
Saddam was without doubt America’s boy in the middle east for many years, all of the years in fact when his goverment was at it’s most powerfull, and oppressive, it didnt bother them then of course, he was good for stability (e.g. the west’s interests) and was supplied with the tools of the trade by the western powers!
As you say, the war is corrupt, based on lies, and many people have been killed and maimed for nothing other than hegemony.
Another interesting name in the longer term view of the Iraq saga is Steven Pelletiere, an ex CIA analyst, google his name and that is also interesting stuff.
Thats a lot of scared people in America then eh?.
Were they scared the first time they voted him in too… 
OK, well being a bit of a devil’s advocate, can anyone here explain to me two things. Firstly, why does the U.S. pay a comparitively smaller amount in tax on fuel/oil as opposed to us here in the U.K. when their consumption of a non sustainable resource outstrips more or less everyone else in the world? And secondly, why a country that is oil rich, like Iraq, is intent on watching its citizens, live in abject squalor, while a war that I bet most of them never asked for, ensues around them?
Ask yourself this… what was the first thing that Bush did after the invasion? Everyone knew that Saddam would order oil fields to be set light to. Did Bush bring in humanitarian aid? Did he sort out infrastructure? Did he ensure that the citizens of Iraq were well cared for?
NO! He made sure that the oil refinary fires were extingushed. Oil production continues in Iraq, filling up barrels of oil to lay in stock, so that the oil prices can be fixed in the future. At the same time, the rightful beneficiaries of the wealth from the oil from Iraq, have no infrastructure, no hospital care, no basic medication, and a very bleak future until the oil has all gone. Blaire is Bush’s wagging tail, and on this theme Mal, I ask why you should not think that our fuel prices are being manipulated by the U.S. ?
P.S. What is ‘hegemony’ Mal ? 
jammymutt:
Thats a lot of scared people in America then eh?.Were they scared the first time they voted him in too…
Are you seriously suggesting that there aint a lot of scared people in the US right now JM?
Why they voted for him in the first place is debateable, as are the approx 90,000 spoiled tickets in Florida, many americans dispute he even won his first term fair and square and it’s well explained in the Farenheit 9-11 film, but thats another matter.
Youre bang on Tel, the building that got the most protection in Baghdad was the oil ministry. Are we just fools to them?
Tel, I dont believe that the US is getting cheap energy from our expensive prices for a couple of reasons, 1, everyone seems to more or less pay the same per barrel for crude worldwide on the commodities market, I think it’s main base is rotterdam?, and this would be glaringly obvious were there a fiddle for the US market. 2, if you look at the breakdown of our fuel costs, it is 75% tax, levied by HM Govt, I dont think that tax money goes to the US, well not directly! It’s also a factor that the US produces a fair bit of it’s own oil, I believe they are still a major producer, but they consume it as opposed to selling it.
I cant see how they would manipulate our price for crude, that being said, all oil is sold in dollars worldwide, so they might manipulate with the price of dollars that everyone needs to buy from them in order to actually purchase oil. By the way, Saddam started selling Iraqi oil in euro’s, have a guess who else is flirting with the euro for oil sales and purchace, one begins with an I the other N.K. That wouldnt be the axis of evil would it? The whole area of study in the dollar/euro oil selling thing is also an eye opener!
Having said that, I’m open enough to change me mind if the facts present themselves!
Hegemony is just a posh word for ■■■■■■■■■■ really Tel, it’s what the powerfull do to the weak, for no better reason than they can, it’s commonly used to describe what empire’s do.