What allowance (if any) are you allowed after 4.5 hrs driving. Are you allowed any extra time to park up safely?
Obviously if your on motorway you can’t just pull onto hard shoulder for a 45 
I managed to get to the Stockyard on Monday night with 4h 29 mins driving time showing on dashboard timer. Phew!!!
I think I’ve got this correct - we shall see…
Unless for special unforseen circumstances, then no extra time allowed.
The argument would be that you should have worked your run out better and planned for the stop within your hours
ROG:
I think I’ve got this correct - we shall see…
Unless for special unforseen circumstances, then no extra time allowed.
The argument would be that you should have worked your run out better and planned for the stop within your hours
i don’t know for sure, but this is how i’d always viewed it too.
if you get caught up in an incident, thus, exceeding your 4 and half, say on a motorway, i’d assume you’d have too, pull into the next available services, at your first opertunity, and then enter the details on your tacho, at the end of shift.
I think Rog is right.
It has to be exceptional circumstances, i.e. something unforeseen. Example; you get stuck in traffic following an accident and couldn’t have made it to a safe place. You should then stop at the very next available place and record on the back of the chart (or digital printout) the reason, the time and the place of the incident that delayed you (so it can be checked later if necessary). You aren’t allowed to go past a motorway services or other “safe” place to get to your planned destination (the one you would have got to if not for the delay). So, for example, you’d planned to park up at the Stockyard but because of an unforeseen incident you couldn’t get there in your driving time, you ain’t allowed to plough past Ferrybridge services to get there (even if it is Thursday’s grab a granny night! 
)
The law does not provide any dispensation for bad planning!
Hope that helps!
Shrek:
you ain’t allowed to plough past Ferrybridge services to get there (even if it is Thursday’s grab a granny night!!
is that still on in newark used to be great for lads at longs, park up at the cattle market and head a 1/2 mile up the road to grab a granny. 
he he. I’ve rattled through that industrial estate into the Stockyard a time or to myself too. 
It is bad planning really to go over. But sometimes it happens despite best efforts. I usually start looking for somewhere to stop after 4hrs 15. Where i have been caught out on occasions is on unfamiliar cross country single carriageway roads with no suitable stopping place. I just drive on until there is somewhere. Later note on the tacho “break at [insert time you stopped] late due to no safe stopping place”. (I’m talking about just a break, not end of shift, i try to plan that better).
If its only 5 or 10 mins over & you don’t make a habit of it, its no big deal in my eyes. We have ALL our tachos analysed & i’ve never had any feedback over one of these instances.
Shrek: what’s your thoughts on this scenario?
Nearing the end of your last weekly shift (in my case that’ll only be 2nd or 3rd one) and returning to base. You thought you could make it but due to traffic you find yourself just 5 - 10 minutes from the yard when daily driving time is used up. Its Sunday so there is no one available to come out and get you. There is no safe parking place (for 9 or 11 hours!).
Would any VOSA officer in their right mind really expect you to park up for the night 10 minutes from the yard?
Suppose you were already on your 6th card?
A one off they most likely wouldnt do anything about it but if it was regular could find yourself in trouble.
Remember haulin budweiser for bibby distrubution in glasgow and somtimes if traffic was heavy not get back in 4hrs 30mins coming off the motorway in the east end of glasgow no way on earth i am parking up there for even 45mins on a Friday night, screw that good way to get your truck nicked and a good kicking.
Maybe end up going 10mins over, never was pulled by VOSA so dont know what they would say, suppose depends on the VOSA person some are alright some are right hitlers.
I don’t think that there is a ‘definitive’ answer. It would always depend upon the circumstances.
Someone came to me a year or so back somewhat ‘irked’ that running out of time, he had been directed to a ‘sister’ depot, which took him about 20 mins over his hours, rather than finding a lay by and dropping the trailer to be collected later.
I went through the scenario with him. He was loaded with foodstuffs. He didn’t have any means of securing the fridge doors. Could he guarantee finding a lay by where he could drop the trailer and then pull in behind it WITHOUT the risk of another vehicle reversing up to it and then ‘closing the curtains’?
What if he was carrying something like aerated bags of prepared salad, and a group of idiots had decided to get into the trailer and ■■■■ all over the load?
The end result may well have been undetectable, except by the end user.
Or it was pork pies, and a spaced out needle user decided that it would be fun to prod a used needle into a number of the product?
Both scenarios are fanciful, as I’ll readily admit, but shouldn’t be ignored.
Following the conversation, the individual concerned was more ‘relaxed’ about the matter.
Thinking back to, rather than quoting from, the Regs, the safety of the public has primacy, which, I would suggest, but has never been decided upon, (AFAIK}, should/could include the driver, hence the ‘east end of Glasgow’ scenario. Following on from the safety of the vehicle, comes the ‘safety of the load’. (which obviously includes the ‘east end of Glasgow’ situation), where one may then have to consider matters such as Product Contamination and Public Health issues.
Whilst I’m not suggesting that there are vast numbers of terrorists, ‘eco’ or otherwise, out there waiting to pounce on any consumable load that we might render vulnerable, it only needs a few.
And if the argument justifies getting to somewhere more disreable at which to rest, then why not use it.
I am looking for the exact paragraph as regards exceeding
the driveing time due to certain events which are classed
as a emergencey,it used to be Para 13 , I can only say that
when i have exyceeded the driveing hours due to one of the
FOLLOWING:: No parking available, safety of the load vehicle
and the crew, are just some examples,I have used this when
due to unforseen problems i have exceeded my driveing hours
THIS does not mean that you can constantly exceed your driveing time
as this paragraph is only for emergences,
You have 4.5 hrs to find somewhere to park, is that not long enough?
No excuses really, if you go over you should have the right to drive taken away for ever!!!
I would of lost my right years ago
brit pete:
I am looking for the exact paragraph as regards exceeding
the driveing time due to certain events which are classed as an emergencey,…
vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/reposit … 202008.pdf
Unforeseen events
Provided that road safety is not jeopardised, and to enable a driver to reach a suitable stopping place, a departure from the EU rules may be permitted to the extent necessary to ensure the safety of persons, the vehicle or its load. Drivers must note all the reasons for doing so on the back of their tachograph record sheets (if using an analogue tachograph) or on a printout or temporary sheet (if using a digital tachograph) at the latest on reaching the suitable stopping place (see relevant sections covering manual entries). Repeated and regular occurrences, however, might indicate to enforcement officers that employers were not in fact scheduling work to enable ompliance with the applicable rules.
A judgment by the European Court of Justice dated 9 November 1995 provides a useful guide to how this provision should be interpreted. It can apply only in cases where it unexpectedly becomes impossible to comply with the rules on drivers’ hours during the course of a journey. In other words, planned breaches of the rules are not allowed. This means that when an unforeseen event occurs, it would be for the driver to decide whether it was necessary to depart from the rules. In doing so, a driver would have to take into account the need to ensure road safety in the process (e.g. when driving a vehicle carrying an abnormal load under the Special Types regulations) and any instruction that may be given by an enforcement officer (e.g. when under police ■■■■■■).
Some examples of such events are delays caused by severe weather, road traffic accidents, mechanical breakdowns, interruptions of ferry services and any event that causes or is likely to cause danger to the life or health of people or animals. Note that this concession only allows for drivers to reach a suitable stopping place, not necessarily to complete their planned journey. Drivers and operators would be expected to reschedule any disrupted work to remain in compliance with the EU rules.
Don’t forget the unforeseen bit is crucial. If you are delayed by an accident or some roadworks that are only there for a day or two would count as unforeseen. Being delayed by long term roadworks which are well publicised and cause delays every day would not count as unforeseen.
if i need a number 2 i keep going
The quoted example of ‘animals’ is, of course, particularly pertinent. We’d need Denis to input on this but, if carrying Livestock, then one couldn’t exactly find the nearest lay by and then unload the ‘cargo’ into the nearest field.
They need food. They need water. They need a secure containment area. Which could still be two or three hours away.
And there are Regulations concerning the movement of Livestock which, I believe, effectively override certain parts of the EU hours Regs.
I had to do 4hrs 50m the other day due to an accident, i tried to get a layby but they were full of trucks so i had to keep going until i could find a safe place to stop which wouldn’t cause an obstruction to other road users. I wrote on the back of the chart to that effect.
As long as you don’t make a habit of it, i think it’s ok…
bbez:
I had to do 4hrs 50m the other day due to an accident, i tried to get a layby but they were full of trucks so i had to keep going until i could find a safe place to stop which wouldn’t cause an obstruction to other road users. I wrote on the back of the chart to that effect.As long as you don’t make a habit of it, i think it’s ok…
unforseen exceptional circumstances - perfectly OK 
Going back to the original question, there is no ‘leeway’ for exceeding the daily driving period for finding a ■■■■■■■■■■■■. It sounds harsh, but it’s your responsibility as a driver to find a suitable parking location within the time permitted. It’s no good driving for 9 hours THEN trying to find a ■■■■■■■■■■■■. Don’t forget that the 9 hours daily driving (and 10 where allowed) is not a ‘target,’ it’s a limit.
As has been said earlier an allowance is given to drivers on journeys where they have suffered an ‘unforeseen delay.’ To qualify for this you must stop at the first available safe parking location and record the reason for the departure from the usual limits on your chart / printout paper as soon as you get there. Getting held up in the morning is not an excuse for going over your time in the evening, in order to reach your destination. We all know that ‘stuff’ happens and there is a tolerance that may be applied, it’s more than you think but may be not as much as you hope.
my little story goes thus
a month or so ago i arrived at dunkerque in plenty of time for the next ferry but after Qing to get my ticket told id be on the one after next a wait of about 2h45 mins
well my spread over would now run out mid channel
anyway got on the boat and drove another 30 mins or so to folkstone dox
wrote on back of card what happened
next day i get a pull by the police at swansea west
checked me over and then it came to the disc
i explained to the vosa chap what happened showed him my ferry ticket explained etc and he signed the back of my disc too and said its not a problem as i had not tried to hide the over run
surely once told of the wait, or, once on the boat (upto you) you could then have gone onto daily rest? Interrupted once or twice by not more than an hour in total.
Driveroneuk:
surely once told of the wait, or, once on the boat (upto you) you could then have gone onto daily rest? Interrupted once or twice by not more than an hour in total.
Legally only if you have access to a bunk or couchette on the ferry, which presumably you probably wouldn’t have on a journey of a couple of hours