To be fair no one is claiming they are perfect for everyone right now. We’re at the start of this, range will dramatically and progressively improve
Truckulent:
Enforced delays to a journey are not conducive to relaxed motoring. Ask anyone that’s been stuck in traffic.
Is this you telling us you run bent? 
switchlogic:
To be fair no one is claiming they are perfect for everyone right now. We’re at the start of this, range will dramatically and progressively improve
Which is fine. But we aren’t allowing natural development, we’re forcing the underdeveloped tech. on the public, and forcing them to use it regardless. IC will be taxed off the road and when it has been EVs will be charged a heck of a lot more to recharge than currently are.
There’s going to be a very big hole.in the government’s finances when IC are no more.
My issue isn’t with EVs per se, but the manner with which they’re being introduced. It smacks of dictatorship. Many people will not be able to afford to buy an EV - and they won’t be cheap to run in a few years either.
All I see is an elitist form of transport for the virtue signaller at the moment.
By the time they’re affordable the next “New Thing” will be on the horizon - to extract even more cash from us! [emoji85]
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switchlogic:
Truckulent:
Enforced delays to a journey are not conducive to relaxed motoring. Ask anyone that’s been stuck in traffic.Is this you telling us you run bent?
Hahahaha. Never Luke!!! Though thanks to a manual entry error I once worked for 475 hours…[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1782]
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Truckulent:
My issue isn’t with EVs per se, but the manner with which they’re being introduced. It smacks of dictatorship. Many people will not be able to afford to buy an EV - and they won’t be cheap to run in a few years either.
Ah yes to be fair that’s a very valid criticism
switchlogic:
Truckulent:
My issue isn’t with EVs per se, but the manner with which they’re being introduced. It smacks of dictatorship. Many people will not be able to afford to buy an EV - and they won’t be cheap to run in a few years either.Ah yes to be fair that’s a very valid criticism
I’m glad you agree, progress has always meant that better products and standard of life succeed what has come before, let’s see what happens.
switchlogic:
To be fair no one is claiming they are perfect for everyone right now. We’re at the start of this, range will dramatically and progressively improve
I’ve already solved the range issue with a 3.5t Transit with 1 tonne of batteries.
That’s not much use when it costs 26p per kwh + road fuel duty + 20% VAT to charge them and the batteries cost a lot more than the van.
Let alone living in an irradiated, treeless dustbowl covered in solar panels and food production wiped out for the privilege.
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
People often mention range, understandably, but fact is most people really don’t actually go far. See so many complain of range when all they do is 5/10/20/30 miles commute daily and could plug in overnight. Not saying that’s you Truckulent, but for vast majority range doesnt matter despite those same people thinking it’s everything when I’m reality they often only do 2/3 long trips a yearSame goes to all comments Volvo Electric posts get. Many seem to think every truck is doing 700/800km a day. Fact is even this early stage there are a huge amount of applications they can be used for.
Says the person who can’t afford to buy an EV let alone run it without ripping off pensioners and the NHS in subsidised electricity.
Even by your incredibly low standards that makes absolutely no sense
Carryfast:
Even his devils advocate economics figures are as credible as the idea that CO2 cooked Venus.
What economics figures? I didn’t post anything about the economics of them, just range. Also you don’t appear to know what devils advocate means if you think my interest in electric falls into that category. The old dementia is starting to hit quite hard isn’t it Geoffrey old man. On the bright side you can use that as another excuse for leading a crap life in future so take the positives even though I know it’s literally impossible for you to be positive about anything. Bon nuit
Since my energy supplier went belly up I’m no longer getting the cheap overnight 5p/kWh EV charging rate from 00:00 to 04:00 I’m on 17.5p/kWh. I charged up last night from around 45% in the “tank” to 100% so the car can do it’s periodic cell balancing after it reaches 100% full. That cost me £2.10. It can take from 1 hour to 4 hours depending how out of whack the battery pack is and has to be done on a slow charger i.e. a granny charger or a 7kw charger, God knows how people will get the cell balancing done if you don’t have access to off road parking or a home charger you cant do it on a rapid charger.
Not all EV’s have to do this but some do including my MG ZS EV.
Prices are rising at the public charging networks, Ionity charges 69p/kWh 
That’s if you’re signed up to their monthly subscription account, it’s more expensive if you’re not signed up with them The Engie rapid charger network (which were mostly free) has been taken over recently by Geniepoint who charge 42p/kWh on them now
EV’s are not for everybody and wont meet peoples needs if you travel long distances or do lots of motorway driving at the national speed limit. It will be too time consuming for soon, For my requirements EV’s are perfect being retired as I don’t drive long distances any more nor do I need to use the car everyday. I’ve never even used a public charger yet as I don’t travel anywhere near the range of this EV which is 162 miles.
People ask me about the range of my car & I tell them how long is a piece of string! you can give six people the same car to do the exact same journey & you would get six different results It all depends on how you drive, have the heater on, wet or windy weather or the time of year. Our daughter used the car for a week about a month ago as her car was being repaired, She goes out to work in the dark & arrives home in the dark. Using the headlights, wipers & the heater (she has that on full blast) at this time of year can take 10-15% off the range.
The government aren’t too bothered about the Hoi Poli not being able to afford BEV’s as they’re spending a fortune of the public transport infrastructure & want people out of private cars & onto trains, trams & buses anyway.
To quote Lancpudn :- “The government aren’t too bothered about the Hoi Poloi not being able to afford BEV’s as they’re spending a fortune of the public transport infrastructure & want people out of private cars & onto trains, trams & buses anyway.”
It seems that the shortage of lorry drivers has spread to the buses, at least in South and West Yorkshire. Lots of services are being cut back or cancelled due to “Staff Shortages”, and the backlog of driver training generally and licence processing at DVLA isn’t helping to ease the situation. With more and more towns and cities introducing Low Emission Zones and the relentless increase in fuel prices, drivers on a limited budget will increasingly need a convenient public transport alternative. The electric vehicle can’t work for everyone - where do those who live in a tower block or terraced house without their own off-street parking space put their charger? Consider also that many more people live nearer to a bus stop than a railway station, and the need for buses becomes apparent. But - lots of little buses cost much more to run than a smaller number of big buses, but fewer big buses can’t cover the same number of routes that lots of little ones could, so there’s a big headache for someone to sort out. Buying some walking shoes before the price goes up might be a good idea.
fodenway:
To quote Lancpudn :- “The government aren’t too bothered about the Hoi Poloi not being able to afford BEV’s as they’re spending a fortune of the public transport infrastructure & want people out of private cars & onto trains, trams & buses anyway.”
It seems that the shortage of lorry drivers has spread to the buses, at least in South and West Yorkshire. Lots of services are being cut back or cancelled due to “Staff Shortages”, and the backlog of driver training generally and licence processing at DVLA isn’t helping to ease the situation. With more and more towns and cities introducing Low Emission Zones and the relentless increase in fuel prices, drivers on a limited budget will increasingly need a convenient public transport alternative. The electric vehicle can’t work for everyone - where do those who live in a tower block or terraced house without their own off-street parking space put their charger? Consider also that many more people live nearer to a bus stop than a railway station, and the need for buses becomes apparent. But - lots of little buses cost much more to run than a smaller number of big buses, but fewer big buses can’t cover the same number of routes that lots of little ones could, so there’s a big headache for someone to sort out. Buying some walking shoes before the price goes up might be a good idea.
That’s a good point about the smaller buses, They’ve knocked off the routes that small buses used in my neck o the woods since the beginning of the pandemic, They were always full mostly with pensioners going into town to do their shopping or to the big doctors clinic were the bus stop was right outside, they were a lifeline to the local people here, I still use the bus & train using my free concessionary travel pass to go into town quite a lot, I’m lucky I live within 5 minutes of the “big bus stop” & 10 minutes from the train station, the “small bus stop” is right outside my front gate but I haven’t seen that service since the pandemic started.
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
Even his devils advocate economics figures are as credible as the idea that CO2 cooked Venus.What economics figures? I didn’t post anything about the economics of them, just range. Also you don’t appear to know what devils advocate means if you think my interest in electric falls into that category.
I was actually referring to Harry Metcalfe’s video and comments, if anyone can be trusted to be talking as devil’s advocate he can, in laughably comparing the subsidised untaxed 12.5p per kwh price of electric with the price of petrol.
When clearly it’s a loss leader and there’s no way that price is going to stay.More like at least double + road fuel duty and 20% VAT.
Obviously wasn’t referring to you.
lancpudn:
Since my energy supplier went belly up I’m no longer getting the cheap overnight 5p/kWh EV charging rate from 00:00 to 04:00 I’m on 17.5p/kWh. I charged up last night from around 45% in the “tank” to 100% so the car can do it’s periodic cell balancing after it reaches 100% full. That cost me £2.10.Prices are rising at the public charging networks, Ionity charges 69p/kWh
private cars & onto trains, trams & buses anyway.
Even 17p per kwh is obviously a subsisdised loss leader when most suppliers are now charging 20p + per kwh for pensioners to struggle with on their domestic energy bills and that’s only with 5% VAT.
Call it 50p per kwh + road fuel duty + 20% VAT.
Forcing people onto public transport looks quacks and flies like the agenda 30 surrender document.
As for £2.10 that works out at 12 kwh at 17.5p per kwh.Good luck with getting far on that.It wouldn’t even cover my shopping trips.
Meanwhile the NHS moans about lack of funds because of the lost tax revenues.
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
Even his devils advocate economics figures are as credible as the idea that CO2 cooked Venus.What economics figures? I didn’t post anything about the economics of them, just range. Also you don’t appear to know what devils advocate means if you think my interest in electric falls into that category.
I was actually referring to Harry Metcalfe’s video and comments, if anyone can be trusted to be talking as devil’s advocate he can, in laughably comparing the subsidised untaxed 12.5p per kwh price of electric with the price of petrol.
When clearly it’s a loss leader and there’s no way that price is going to stay.More like at least double + road fuel duty and 20% VAT.
Obviously wasn’t referring to you.
Ah ok fair enough got confused as you’d quoted my post
Carryfast:
lancpudn:
Since my energy supplier went belly up I’m no longer getting the cheap overnight 5p/kWh EV charging rate from 00:00 to 04:00 I’m on 17.5p/kWh. I charged up last night from around 45% in the “tank” to 100% so the car can do it’s periodic cell balancing after it reaches 100% full. That cost me £2.10.Prices are rising at the public charging networks, Ionity charges 69p/kWh
private cars & onto trains, trams & buses anyway.Even 17p per kwh is obviously a subsisdised loss leader when most suppliers are now charging 20p + per kwh for pensioners to struggle with on their domestic energy bills and that’s only with 5% VAT.
Call it 50p per kwh + road fuel duty + 20% VAT.
Forcing people onto public transport looks quacks and flies like the agenda 30 surrender document.As for £2.10 that works out at 12 kwh at 17.5p per kwh.Good luck with getting far on that.It wouldn’t even cover my shopping trips.
Meanwhile the NHS moans about lack of funds because of the lost tax revenues.
You must go a long way to do your shopping! That was just a top up charge to 100% Yes the charger put 12kWh costing £2.10 into the battery as I’m averaging 4 miles/kw on urban cycles that’s 48 miles worth. It would be cheaper for you to get a home delivery for a fiver if you’re travelling more than 48 miles to do your shopping.
lancpudn:
Carryfast:
lancpudn:
I’m on 17.5p/kWh. I charged up last night from around 45% in the “tank” to 100% so the car can do it’s periodic cell balancing after it reaches 100% full. That cost me £2.10.Prices are rising at the public charging networks, Ionity charges 69p/kWh
private cars & onto trains, trams & buses anyway.Even 17p per kwh is obviously a subsisdised loss leader when most suppliers are now charging 20p + per kwh for pensioners to struggle with on their domestic energy bills and that’s only with 5% VAT.
Call it 50p per kwh + road fuel duty + 20% VAT.
Forcing people onto public transport looks quacks and flies like the agenda 30 surrender document.As for £2.10 that works out at 12 kwh at 17.5p per kwh.Good luck with getting far on that.It wouldn’t even cover my shopping trips.
Meanwhile the NHS moans about lack of funds because of the lost tax revenues.You must go a long way to do your shopping! That was just a top up charge to 100% Yes the charger put 12kWh costing £2.10 into the battery as I’m averaging 4 miles/kw on urban cycles that’s 48 miles worth. It would be cheaper for you to get a home delivery for a fiver if you’re travelling more than 48 miles to do your shopping.
A gallon of petrol contains around 50 kwh.
An ICE is around 40-50% efficient.
It will go around 30 miles on that 50 kwh worth of petrol.
An EV is around 90% efficient so the maths say it will go around 60 miles at best on that same 50kwh.
My run to the shops is usually Cobham or Byfleet.
Where I’ve got loads of convenient free parking where I can choose what I want and reject what I don’t want.
I can then just wheel a barrow load of steak and beer to the car with the trolley park then no more than around 20-50 feet away from the car after I’ve unloaded it.
That’s more or less a 12 mile round trip.It’s also not a bad drive and I don’t like living like a prisoner under house arrest.
I do that around 3 or 4 times a week because I like lots of steak and beer among other heavy cleaning stuff like 4 litres of bleach for the sink etc and large boxes of washing powder etc etc and I can’t heave that lot around on the bus even if there was a direct bus route there.With at best two buses needed to get to Cobham and the 715 isn’t frequent and still a long walk to Sainsburys even if I could carry it all.
So call it 48 miles for less than a tenner including plenty of tax for the NHS.
As opposed to ( what you should be paying ) 25p per kwh + road fuel duty and 20% VAT for the equivalent of 5 trips as opposed to my 4.
Good luck with 69p per kwh + duty + 20% VAT.
While 4 miles per kwh would mean the equivalent of around 200 mpg which would mean that you’re claiming an energy efficiency of around 700% compared to an ICE.
As opposed to the actual figure of 60% at best,in addition to the actual lower efficiency at the power station.
That’s the facts of the matter.
As I said you’re trying to sell a control freak agenda 30 nightmare nothing to do with CO2 having cooked Venus.
In addition to your anything but green nuke and biomass fuel source.
Carryfast:
Meanwhile the NHS moans about lack of funds because of the lost tax revenues.
That’s a hilarious attempt to hitch the NHS bandwagon to your anti electric car bandwagon. That only has 3 wheels
switchlogic:
Carryfast:
Meanwhile the NHS moans about lack of funds because of the lost tax revenues.That’s a hilarious attempt to hitch the NHS bandwagon to your anti electric car bandwagon. That only has 3 wheels
To be fair C02 warmist sceptic and anti nuclear, anti biomass destroying woodland and anti solar panels destroying fields, all being anything but green, unaffordable solutions, to a non existent problem,
is a bit more than ‘anti electric car’.
We were told that we need road fuel taxation to help pay for the NHS so what’s changed.
Carryfast:
I do that around 3 or 4 times a week because I like lots of steak and beer among other heavy cleaning stuff like 4 litres of bleach for the sink etc and large boxes of washing powder etc etc
Well. That’s not worrying. At all.