hitch:
10 hours driving 11 duty every day
Only in the UK. Different countries, different national rules.
orys:
…and if I should use my log book for my driving in germany only?
For the entire journey if you are going to, or passing through Germany.
I passed a BAG control in Germany this week and the only vehicles they had pulled were Sprinter type vans so I guess they do check them sometimes.
As Coffeeholic posted the BAG check and will do you if you get stopped for non compliance
with EU rules, it has been posted before on here many moons ago that GERMANY seems to be
the only one ,who checks but Murphy,s law says it can happen any where,
brit pete:
As Coffeeholic posted the BAG check and will do you if you get stopped for non compliance
with EU rules, it has been posted before on here many moons ago that GERMANY seems to be
the only one ,who checks but Murphy,s law says it can happen any where,
Agreed Pete. 
The reason that the BAG sometimes makes a point of pulling ‘sprinter’ type vans is that the vehicle weight threshold for having to fit a tachograph is written slightly differently for domestic traffic in Germany. Some vehicles of >2.8t authorised GVW (zGG) are voluntarily equipped with a tacho, whilst for some others the limit is >3t authorised GVW (zGG.) [§ 57a StVZO]
When a tachograph is fitted, it must be used, so there’s some scope for the BAG to show an interest in this type of vehicle, especially if it’s on German plates.
Guys, do you have some website where I can read it all about sprintering in D?
orys:
No, I was sent it in the afternoon to deliver at the next day morning. Then I came back, collecting some stuff on the way.
Sounds like you’ve got a good number then. Enjoy 
@Dieseldave , they stop any one not just german vehicles mate and they will
do you post haste, lots of € euros,
brit pete:
@Dieseldave , they stop any one not just german vehicles mate and they will
do you post haste, lots of € euros,
Quite true Pete, but it’s the tacho thing they’re after…
They know perfectly well that the other nationalities are most probably on international work (CMR) and aren’t required to keep records, whereas if you’re German and your vehicle has had a tacho voluntarily fitted, then they’ve got all the hard evidence they need if there’s wrongdoing going on.
When the BAG are checking other nationalities’ sprinter vans, it’s a bit harder for them to prove a driving hours breach.
And the BAG never caught me for hours when I used to drive my 3.49t transit to/through Germany. (Not for want of trying. 
)
orys:
So far it’s not so bad. After quite a few days in that job, I haven’t been driving for longer than 10 hours a day (although my duty was longer, but I wasn’t working all the time - lot’s of waiting in that job)
And I had even a proper sleep every night…
But I haven’t been far - the furthest down was Plymouth
Ah well, not quite Europe yet, but at least you’ve been further afield than Bathgate 
From another site I have some PDFs of the German log book and did read on a site regarding their use to van driving through German of a certain weight. I will have to do it from memory, but my understanding was and vehicle between 2.5 and 3.5 tons (not 100% sure the first figure is correct, but it was 2 something) has to have a drivers hours log book, my understanding it belonged to the van not the driver. There is a space to enter your name, start mileage, start times, breaks etc.
Members of this particular forum had reported being stopped and asked for the log book, the view being it was becoming more common place. certainly as far as I know its a requirement to do this in Germany only, although you should keep to driving hours even in non tacho vehicles, that being hard to police of course.
A grey area sprung up as do you actually only record hours whilst in Germany or are the Germans looking for hours and breaks taken in other countries, meaning setting off from Scotland should be recorded all the way through Germany and to where ever you end up, no one seem to know this. As its not a requirement to record journeys in such vehicles outside German you might think why should I. Another problem might well be happy doing domestic work and suddenly get a job that goes through Germany, well you could buy the logbook on the border, but were is all the driving time to show, you would have not kept a record up until that point.
I can do Frost (PL) to Danmark in 6 or 7 hours, no bother to show a 45 break during that time, but i would have done nearly 5 hours in Poland and maybe 3 more the other side in Danmark from start to finish, I guess I am drew128 in Germany, Lars128 in DK and drew128ski in PL…
I can remember something about different weights and speed i think, most German plated sprinters will have windows in the sides, they also have or can have a rear seat, so are classed as a car derived van, as a result they can carry less than a sprinter without windows/rear seats, but the German version is allowed to basically go as fast as it can on the autobahns where as the 3.5t normal sprinter is restricted to a certain speed as it can weight up to it’s max 3.5t where as the other the weight is less i thing 2.5 or 3t limit, i only know this by chance as once on our way back from kelsterbach nr Frankfurt airport we were in a convoy with some german and french sprinters the german pod pulled them on the A3 afterwards they told us about it as i don’t think they knew about the law
Guys, do you have some website where I can read it all about sprintering in D?
orys heres the BAGs view about it
Für welche Fahrzeuge gelten die Fahrpersonalvorschriften?
Im Inland müssen auch Fahrer von Fahrzeugen, die zur Güterbeförderung dienen und deren zulässiges Gesamtgewicht einschließlich Anhänger oder Sattelanhänger mehr als 2,8 t und nicht mehr als 3,5 t beträgt, Aufzeichnungen über die Lenkzeiten, alle sonstigen Arbeitszeiten, die Lenkzeitunterbrechungen und die Ruhezeiten führen. Wenn ein Kontrollgerät - analog oder digital - eingebaut ist, müssen die Aufzeichnungen durch Benutzung des eingebauten Gerätes geführt werden (§ 1 Abs. 7 FPersV). Die Tätigkeitsnachweise müssen bei Fahrzeugen ohne Kontrollgerät durch manuelle Aufzeichnungen erfolgen (§ 1 Abs. 6 FPersV).Diese sind für jeden Tag separat zu fertigen. Der Fahrer hat dabei jedes Blatt der Aufzeichnungen mit Vor- und Zuname, dem Datum, dem amtlichen Kennzeichen, den Kilometerständen bei Fahrtbeginn und Fahrtende zu versehen (§ 1 Abs. 6 FPersV). Die Aufzeichnungspflichten sind dann erfüllt, wenn die Aufzeichnungen auf einem Vordruck nach dem Muster der Anlage 1 getätigt werden (§ 1 Abs. 7 FPersV).
Liegt das Gesamtgewicht eines Fahrzeuges hingegen bei 2,8 t oder darunter (einschließlich Anhänger oder Sattelanhänger), so bestehen keine fahrpersonalrechtlichen Aufzeichnungspflichten.
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Geoff
Ok, that basically just says that if your vehicle is between 2.8t and 3.5t you need to keep a written record of your driving, breaks, other work, kms start and finish, reg. no. A suitable example form was at “appendix 1” on the original site (I think). It also says that if such a vehicle is fitted with a tacho then the tacho should be used instead. If the vehicle is under 2.8t then no records need be kept.
What it doesn’t say is what the hours regulations actually are for 2.8 to 3.5t vehicles…
A bit of googling has turned up this, dated June 2005:
sidiblume.de/info-rom/verkehr/fpersv_f.htm
Vehicles 2.8 to 3.5t have driving times, breaks and rest periods in accordance with Articles 4, 6-9 and 12 of Regulation (EC) No 561/2006.
I took a quick look at that EU regulation eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 013:EN:PDF and those appear to be the normal driving hours that we all know and love 
There are some exceptions (door to door sales, transporting material and equipment for your business, where driving is not your main activity etc).
The records you need to keep are of:
The records are to be made separately for each day and must contain:
There is a neat form to use on the bottom of the page (first link).
You need to keep with you the records of the current week, and the complete week included in the previous 15 days.
Disclaimer: I think the above is correct, but as it’s just what I’ve found by googling, I can’t be 100% sure. It does say at the top of the page I link to “Lenk- und Ruhezeiten im nationalen Bereich” so there may in fact be other rules that apply for international journeys? Sometimes it feels like the rules and regulations we have to abide by are so zb-king complicated that no one can possibly get them all right.
Simon:
Ah well, not quite Europe yet, but at least you’ve been further afield than Bathgate
Today I was even abroad! In Dublin!
We run vans abroad and have had pulls in germany. We have our own WTD/tacho combined sheets which list every hours possibility know to man 
and they’ve been fine with that.
yes we pay night out.
Orys, you MUST carry the digi card with you.
We run Sprinters into Europe on a regular basis, and have been stopped by the German Highway Patrol on a number of occasions.
All we’ve ever been asked for is our driving licences and passports.
We have a tacho fitted in our Volkswagen Sprinter as we often tow a trailer, but we’ve never been asked about our digi card at all. (Of course, we don’t use the tacho card when we’re not towing as the GVW doesn’t exceed 3.5t).
Zetorpilot:
Ok, that basically just says that if your vehicle is between 2.8t and 3.5t you need to keep a written record of your driving, breaks, other work, kms start and finish, reg. no.
Can anybody say if that’s for vans for hire or for all vans between 2.8t and 3.5tons? I’m planning on heading to Bavaria next week with my fathers van to pick up a BMW E30, the van is ca 3100kg and the trailer is 2000kg gross, do I need to keep a log as well?
milodon:
Zetorpilot:
Ok, that basically just says that if your vehicle is between 2.8t and 3.5t you need to keep a written record of your driving, breaks, other work, kms start and finish, reg. no.Can anybody say if that’s for vans for hire or for all vans between 2.8t and 3.5tons? I’m planning on heading to Bavaria next week with my fathers van to pick up a BMW E30, the van is ca 3100kg and the trailer is 2000kg gross, do I need to keep a log as well?
You might need a tacho for that in Poland, as it’s over 3,5 t.
orys:
Hm, thanks.I am familiar with need of carrying all the documents with me, I am from Poland.
Orys, forget the driving for a living, you should be on TV or the stage
I love reading your hilarious quips.