Euro election results

Rowley010:
The fact is leave wouldn’t win anything if the rule was there had to be a 60/40 majority which for such a major issue it should be. If that had been the rule in the first place we wouldn’t be in this mess.

But there wasn’t a rule because those in power who decided we should a have a referendum were so arrogant, so confident, so out of touch, they believed they would win, Cameron didn’t call it because he wanted the UK to leave the EU or even for some sort of democratic exercise.

They believed wheeling out a load of World leaders and global bankers would resonate with the public, many of whom must of looked at them and thought you ■■■■■ are the reason I can’t get a mortgage, a decent job with decent terms and conditions and why all my public services are being cut in the name of austerity to get you lot out of the mess you got yourselves into.

Rowley010:

Norfolkinclue1:

Rowley010:
There’s the problem. You can’t just leave the EU like flicking a switch. It’s not possible."…

It should have had a 60/40 majority clause for anything to stand for such a monumental decision. Not a 4% margin. Without that in place is was going to be a mess from the start and oh look it is.

First part of your post might give you an insight as to why some want to leave…

Second part about the 60/40 majority marks you out as an utter liar. If remain had won with the same 4% then it wouldn’t have been an issue, you know that, hand on heart you know it and to suggest otherwise I call you out as a liar, a bull [zb], a majority is majority and any fool knows that, if you have issues with the parameters of the vote then go and cry to your fellow EU ■■■■■ Cameron and his lying associates.
That 60/40 point alone gives me reason not to respond to your questioning of my previous post, until you truly understand the many reasons people voted to leave over and above your reasons to stay then you are wasting your time.
You truly have swallowed the EU length. You should be ashamed of your post regarding “majority”…lying hypocritical coward and nothing more… :unamused:

Yeah yeah go on call me names on a forum. Who’s the coward there?

You think If remain had won by 4% Nigel Farage would have stayed quiet and leavers would have accepted that? No they wouldn’t it would just be the same. Which is why the parameters for such a big decision shouldn’t be as tight. A lot of leavers tell me that more people want to leave now so hey call another referendum with 60/40 rules and you’ll win won’t you?

Grow up.

Desperate remainer manure.
You lost the vote you’re not capable of dealing with it, calling for another referendum is just cowardice. Disgusting and disrespectful.
Do you have any idea of how pathetic and stupid you sound begging for another vote and then adding a new version of “majority” to suit your desperation…60/40…ffs that’s utterly embarrassing to read.
What happens if it’s more than that, shall we go for a third one and call it 70/30?
:unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

Why should we leave? To regain control over our sovereignty and borders. Everything else is secondary. If we give away the rights of a British parliament to govern, why bother having one at all? Why would anyone want to join an organization that once in you can never vote out?

Why do you want to vote this out (1.32 to 2.10) and replace it with ‘Ode to Joy’ the EU national anthem led by disgraced former Luxembourg President Junker who was forced to resign after a political scandal?

Reasons to leave.

Remember that less than 75 years ago, we had to go and rescue Europe from the likes of Claude-Jean Junker and his cronies from another failed anti-democratic experiment. Will we suddenly lose all our jobs and a plague of locusts descend on us? Unlikely, we did OK for hundreds of years before the EU was ever thought of and fought a bloody civil war to have an elected British parliament, not European Commissioners. In the words of the popular cliché, are we ‘stronger in than out?’ How can we be stronger than any of the other 27 countries if the EU is about collectivized equality? Who will we trade with? There are 195 countries in the world. The WTO has 164. The EU has 27 and the economies of the main two net EU contributors, Germany and France are stagnating.

You can’t blame farage for the mess remainer PM May made of Brexit.

We’re an eccentric lot, our politicians are c**p and we make mistakes by the bucket load, but let’s have some faith in ourselves even if it’s a based on what once was. :slight_smile:

.

Franglais:

Grandpa:
I agree with what’s being said, in fact I’d call the state of British politics now a national emergency. Having got Brexit, what chance has it got of succeeding if we don’t have a government leadership that want it to succeed? The 2016 referendum was not about deals, it was in or out. The mainstream pro-EU parties lied and are now rightly suffering for it.

Factually untrue.
The Leave campaign was full of how easy it would be to get a better deal, and about how easy those negotiations would be. Very few leavers spoke of a hard Brexit.
The voting slips presented a binary in/out choice, yes, but the campaign and the promises were much more than that.

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No Franglais. Brexit was about a clean break, no deals, which both PMs Cameron and May agreed to. The deals came from PM May as she went back on her word and tried to negotiate a way out.

Double post

Grandpa:

Franglais:

Grandpa:
I agree with what’s being said, in fact I’d call the state of British politics now a national emergency. Having got Brexit, what chance has it got of succeeding if we don’t have a government leadership that want it to succeed? The 2016 referendum was not about deals, it was in or out. The mainstream pro-EU parties lied and are now rightly suffering for it.

Factually untrue.
The Leave campaign was full of how easy it would be to get a better deal, and about how easy those negotiations would be. Very few leavers spoke of a hard Brexit.
The voting slips presented a binary in/out choice, yes, but the campaign and the promises were much more than that.

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No Franglais. Brexit was about a clean break, no deals, which both PMs Cameron and May agreed to. The deals came from PM May as she went back on her word and tried to negotiate a way out.

If so why was there so much talk of they want us more than we need them?, and there was talk of trade deals by the leave campaign, as well as the remain campaign mocking us being able to get a deal with the EU agreed by the remaining 27 countries.

muckles:

Grandpa:

Franglais:

Grandpa:
I agree with what’s being said, in fact I’d call the state of British politics now a national emergency. Having got Brexit, what chance has it got of succeeding if we don’t have a government leadership that want it to succeed? The 2016 referendum was not about deals, it was in or out. The mainstream pro-EU parties lied and are now rightly suffering for it.

Factually untrue.
The Leave campaign was full of how easy it would be to get a better deal, and about how easy those negotiations would be. Very few leavers spoke of a hard Brexit.
The voting slips presented a binary in/out choice, yes, but the campaign and the promises were much more than that.

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No Franglais. Brexit was about a clean break, no deals, which both PMs Cameron and May agreed to. The deals came from PM May as she went back on her word and tried to negotiate a way out.

If so why was there so much talk of they want us more than we need them?, and there was talk of trade deals by the leave campaign, as well as the remain campaign mocking us being able to get a deal with the EU agreed by the remaining 27 countries.

Britain is a net contributor and also a net importer into the UK, we buy more from Europe than we sell. That’s why if we left it would hurt Europe more than it would us. Hence the suggested figure of £39bn for what has been termed an EU ‘divorce bill.’

Brexit means we can do business with the EU on our own terms, or go elsewhere without the permission of another 27 countries. We can continue trade after Brexit if the EU want, but it shouldn’t be part of an exit deal and neither should we pay the EU anything for leaving.

Grandpa:
The deals came from PM May as she went back on her word and tried to negotiate a way out.

‘‘For the Remain vote’’ and which kept us tied to the EU 4th Reich. :wink:

the maoster:
.

You really don’t get the idea of a combined vote being relevant in the case of a single issue as in this case.So a combined vote of remainers elects a combined majority of remain MEP’s.How is that a win for the Leave vote and how does that mean that Farage hasn’t single handedly destroyed much of the Leave vote,in the form of TR’s and Batten’s alienated,let alone insulted,supporters,reflected in the missing Leave vote,which has disappeared from the turn out figure,v the referendum. :unamused:

Just been watching Jeremy Hunt (MP or rhyming slang :smiley: ) who says going in with a no deal brexit could be suicide for his party the Conservatives, and an end to the UK political system as we know it…If that aint a ■■■■ good argument FOR it I don’t know what is. :bulb:

Bring it on, let’s see what happens and take no notice of the ■■■■ doom mongers.
The UK had managed without it for a lot longer than we have been in it, so no plagues of locusts or pestilence like they want us to believe.

(So now the remoaners will answer my point by predictably quoting irrelavent (to this point) periods of history like the 2 world wars, to argue that we were better off in the EU. :unamused: )
Oh yeh, and Diane Abbot reckons the Labour Party should back a second referendum…what a ■■■■ joke that Party is. :laughing:

Grandpa:

muckles:

Grandpa:

Franglais:

Grandpa:
I agree with what’s being said, in fact I’d call the state of British politics now a national emergency. Having got Brexit, what chance has it got of succeeding if we don’t have a government leadership that want it to succeed? The 2016 referendum was not about deals, it was in or out. The mainstream pro-EU parties lied and are now rightly suffering for it.

Factually untrue.
The Leave campaign was full of how easy it would be to get a better deal, and about how easy those negotiations would be. Very few leavers spoke of a hard Brexit.
The voting slips presented a binary in/out choice, yes, but the campaign and the promises were much more than that.

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No Franglais. Brexit was about a clean break, no deals, which both PMs Cameron and May agreed to. The deals came from PM May as she went back on her word and tried to negotiate a way out.

If so why was there so much talk of they want us more than we need them?, and there was talk of trade deals by the leave campaign, as well as the remain campaign mocking us being able to get a deal with the EU agreed by the remaining 27 countries.

Britain is a net contributor and also a net importer into the UK, we buy more from Europe than we sell. That’s why if we left it would hurt Europe more than it would us. Hence the suggested figure of £39bn for what has been termed an EU ‘divorce bill.’

Brexit means we can do business with the EU on our own terms, or go elsewhere without the permission of another 27 countries. We can continue trade after Brexit if the EU want, but it shouldn’t be part of an exit deal and neither should we pay the EU anything for leaving.

Genius idea.
Fix our balance of payments by refusing all imports from the EU.
We don’t need to import engine and brake components to go into our cars do we? The great God of the Free Market will soon fix that.
We can stop all our EU food imports too. That’ll show those darned foreign onion-Johnnies who is in charge won’t it.
But it won’t bother you I guess? So long as our tunes, are better than their tunes, we’re happy to serve those free marketeers who oppose legislation against tax evasion. Let’s keep our banking system seperate so those politicians and those who bankroll them prosper. If there’s no where to hide their money they may have to pay a fair share of it (as determined by the National UK Gov) into the UK Exchequer.

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Genius idea.
Fix our balance of payments by refusing all imports from the EU.
We don’t need to import engine and brake components to go into our cars do we? The great God of the Free Market will soon fix that.
We can stop all our EU food imports too. That’ll show those darned foreign onion-Johnnies who is in charge won’t it.
But it won’t bother you I guess? So long as our tunes, are better than their tunes, we’re happy to serve those free marketeers who oppose legislation against tax evasion. Let’s keep our banking system seperate so those politicians and those who bankroll them prosper. If there’s no where to hide their money they may have to pay a fair share of it (as determined by the National UK Gov) into the UK Exchequer.

Who is it that is refusing to import anything from Europe? Come to think of it, not bankrolling the EU with billions every year and abolishing the EU VAT might help towards the balance of payments, because when we do make a profit the EU won’t demand a share of it as Cameron was forced to make.

Food imports? Is Europe the only country that grows food? There are 27 countries in the EU. There are 164 in the WTO.

The corruption and massive tax evasion that you’re complaining about came while we were in the EU.

So your reasons for remaining in the EU are we won’t have any food and car parts. Got it.

Grandpa:

Genius idea.
Fix our balance of payments by refusing all imports from the EU.
We don’t need to import engine and brake components to go into our cars do we? The great God of the Free Market will soon fix that.
We can stop all our EU food imports too. That’ll show those darned foreign onion-Johnnies who is in charge won’t it.
But it won’t bother you I guess? So long as our tunes, are better than their tunes, we’re happy to serve those free marketeers who oppose legislation against tax evasion. Let’s keep our banking system seperate so those politicians and those who bankroll them prosper. If there’s no where to hide their money they may have to pay a fair share of it (as determined by the National UK Gov) into the UK Exchequer.

Who is it that is refusing to import anything from Europe? Come to think of it, not bankrolling the EU with billions every year and abolishing the EU VAT might help towards the balance of payments, because when we do make a profit the EU won’t demand a share of it as Cameron was forced to make.

Food imports? Is Europe the only country that grows food? There are 27 countries in the EU. There are 164 in the WTO.

The corruption and massive tax evasion that you’re complaining about came while we were in the EU.

So your reasons for remaining in the EU are we won’t have any food and car parts. Got it.

What is this “EU vat tax” you wish to abolish?

Now explain please what you think we should and shouldn’t import from the EU? And on what terms?
Please though, none of the Unicorn nonsense of “on our terms”!
The false promises of the leave campaign have been exposed for what they were.
The EU hasn’t exactly rushed to sign deals “on our terms” have they? So don’t insult our intelligence by repeating nonsense.

WTO rules are still RULES. They are not a free for all. So how would our UK farmers fare against the hormone fed US beef? How would our more humane poultry industry do against the high intensity US model?
How will our fruit farmers do against the South Americans?

So if we agree that the UK will need to import components from abroad?
How I’ll it benefit us leave a big single market, right next door, with zero customs taxes, in order to commence trading with other countries, further away, with customs duties and transport costs and times to consider?

Edit to add. Our car plants are largely foreign owned. In the long term they aren’t about to source different suppliers in order to keep out plants open are they? They are profit making organisations. If our plants become more expensive to operate for Japanese or Indian owners how many new ones will be built? How many will get investment?

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muckles:

Darkside:

robbo99.:
Referendum 2016 result totally disregarded by the establishment.

Establishment wants a second referendum, with remain and different versions of leave on the ballot paper. Their only agenda is to split the leave vote for remain to succeed.

Massive majority for The Brexit Party in the 2019 Euro elections yet already the establishment is ■■■ pooing the result by saying the remain parties added together secured a majority over the leave parties added together.

The establishment is BENT.

30 odd percent of the votes from 30 odd percent of the electorate is not a massive majority though. It is the same as UKIP used to get, so no rise at all despite the state of the big parties…

Please remember more signatures were on the Revoke Article 50 petition than voted for the Brexit Party. This vote had a very low turn out.

Which surely means many of those that signed the petition didn’t bother voting or couldn’t vote or maybe the controls in place for petitions aren’t as robust as those in place for elections?

And this low turnout in elections not just in the UK but in many countries is really part of the problems we are facing, those in corridors of power in the EU were hailing a 51% turnout as a success, as it was better than 2014, when turnouts in some countries down to around 25%, but that still means that millions of EU voters can be asked to vote for their MEP,

why are so many people willing to sign a petition, but not actually take part in the official democratic process, why do so many feel so apathetic that they can’t be bothered to vote?
I’m sure in private many in mainstream politicians find this quite useful, they can continue with policies that adversely affect us knowing that when people have the chance to call them to account they feel so detached from the seat of power, they feel voting is a waste of time, but this threatens democracy, as those disenfranchised people will and are looking elsewhere for change and you only have look at history to see what can happen then.

I’m still hacked off I couldn’t vote against Thatcher in '79 as I was only 17. Would have made no difference but I’d have known I tried.

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What is this “EU vat tax” you wish to abolish?

Now explain please what you think we should and shouldn’t import from the EU? And on what terms?
Please though, none of the Unicorn nonsense of “on our terms”!
The false promises of the leave campaign have been exposed for what they were.
The EU hasn’t exactly rushed to sign deals “on our terms” have they? So don’t insult our intelligence by repeating nonsense.

WTO rules are still RULES. They are not a free for all. So how would our UK farmers fare against the hormone fed US beef? How would our more humane poultry industry do against the high intensity US model?
How will our fruit farmers do against the South Americans?

So if we agree that the UK will need to import components from abroad?
How I’ll it benefit us leave a big single market, right next door, with zero customs taxes, in order to commence trading with other countries, further away, with customs duties and transport costs and times to consider?

Edit to add. Our car plants are largely foreign owned. In the long term they aren’t about to source different suppliers in order to keep out plants open are they? They are profit making organisations. If our plants become more expensive to operate for Japanese or Indian owners how many new ones will be built? How many will get investment?

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The VAT I’d wish to see abolished is the minimum rate the EU decides it should be. You went very quiet about Cameron having to pay an extra tax after the UK made a profit didn’t you. How is the UK supposed to prosper if when it does it has to hand a portion of it to the EU?

I didn’t say we shouldn’t import anything from the EU. You said we wouldn’t be able to import food or car parts. Now you explain why we wouldn’t be able to import food or car parts, on mutual terms, not EU terms. Its how trade is done, or was before the EU decided on terms.

What false promises have leavers made? May has presented THREE EU deals to parliament and they’ve voted against all of them and granted extensions for her to do it. So yes, they have bent over backwards to do deals.

Of course the WTO have rules, but they come without a loss of sovereignty or power transfers to a foreign European organization. How on earth did we ever managed to survive without the EU? We traded with the world and the world traded with us. A common market is good, but not at the expense of losing our sovereignty, because the EU stopped being just a single market EEC a long time ago.

We don’t have huge British car plants, we have foreign ones that assemble parts here and those parts are sourced from around the world. Why do you think they’ll become more expensive if we Brexit? Is it one of those, all the businesses will leave Britain if we vote Brexit? They didn’t did they. In fact the first thing that happened is the US and Switzerland said would trade with us. The jobs didn’t go, businesses didn’t go bust and the city of London didn’t collapse.

There is no reason we can’t carry on trading with Europe, but on mutual terms, not those dictated by Brussels. You have noticed the huge backlash against the two main political parties in the elections recently who are trying to ignore the Brexit vote? Look on that as revenge by the population for all the years of lies and deceit by a remainer political elite.

Double post

Grandpa:
You have noticed the huge backlash against the two main political parties in the elections recently who are trying to ignore the Brexit vote? Look on that as revenge by the population for all the years of lies and deceit by a remainer political elite.

That single paragraph ^^^^^ sums the whole sorry mess up quite succinctly. We (the electorate) are sick to death of career politicians telling us how we should think and feel and patronising us like errant schoolchildren when we don’t.

Just today I heard some Labour twonk on the radio talking about their
European election trouncing and stating that they must learn to listen to what the electorate are saying and if that means giving them a second referendum then so be it! I wanted to scream “nooooooooo you complete helmet, that sort of we know best thinking is exactly the sort of thing that has led to our complete and utter contempt for you”

^^^
Love that last paragraph.