Harvey if you back to page 59 on this thread and read Gazzer’s entry it explains what you are talking about very well on border issues and pre clearance, it worked very well back then and services have advanced considerably over the years so this should be no problem at all to solve and as you say it seems to me that it is the EU that is worried about this border malarkey so let them deal with it. No one seems to put forward where Southern Ireland stands on this issue only what the North think, why is that ? cheers Buzzer
Since 1933 the UK and Eire had a strong trade agreement, and virtually free movement of people. No need for a border.
Both countries joined the Common Market at the same time. Free movement of goods and people. No need for a border.
Post Brexit is seems we will be different customs zones. Remember too that all EU citizens will have the right to enter Eire. Without an Eire/Northern Ireland border there will be no border between London and Warsaw.
Regards customs clearances Harry asked about the time it takes to get a clearance in Swiss nowadays in the Euro thread. Have a look there about how it works in the real world of today.
If we decide to have no border controls to ease traffic, then what is the point of leaving the EU?
The Irish are very concerned about Brexit and there are plenty of stories about this out there. Some sections of the press choose to ignore stories that don’t suit their own agenda it seems.
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Harvey: if professional such as a lawyer, financial advisor or a mechanic told me to “have faith” I would tell them to go back and check everything!
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Franglais:
Since 1933 the UK and Eire had a strong trade agreement, and virtually free movement of people. No need for a border.
Both countries joined the Common Market at the same time. Free movement of goods and people. No need for a border.
Post Brexit is seems we will be different customs zones. Remember too that all EU citizens will have the right to enter Eire. Without an Eire/Northern Ireland border there will be no border between London and Warsaw.Regards customs clearances Harry asked about the time it takes to get a clearance in Swiss nowadays in the Euro thread. Have a look there about how it works in the real world of today.
If we decide to have no border controls to ease traffic, then what is the point of leaving the EU?
The Irish are very concerned about Brexit and there are plenty of stories about this out there. Some sections of the press choose to ignore stories that don’t suit their own agenda it seems
What has changed in your own words the ( ‘‘strong’’ arrangement’’ ( ‘‘no need for a border’’ ) we had with Eire prior to 1973 and after 1920 ?.In what way are we in different customs zones regarding goods and people moving between Eire and UK.As opposed to goods destined for orginating in the EU.IE Irish goods and people will have exactly the same status as before.While all other EU movements will become subject to exactly the same controls as Non EU goods and travellers entering the UK via Eire now.So Irish butter imports to UK no problem.UK manufacturing exports to Ireland no problem.All other UK EU trade is subject to reciprocal agreement of the type which covers all other parts of the world.
Now awaits you telling us that the EU is a Federal Superstate which trumps Ireland’s established UK border relationship.When in other posts you’ve argued that the EU isn’t a full on USE made up of subservient non sovereign states.So which is it.Assuming that you’re saying that the EU reserves the right to impose its Federal rule over historic established precedent,regarding UK Irish relations,then I’d call that an act of war and so would/should any Head of State with the responsibility of defending the realm worth the name ( obviously not this one ).Bearing in mind that UK and Irish EU membership certainly didn’t at any time nullify the CTA arrangement which certainly still exists.Then to think that we happily went to war at the cost of more than a million in aid of a senseless French alliance with Russia.So we leave the EU and we unilaterally keep the UK Irish border arrangement and if the EU obviously wants to destroy those established arrangements with Ireland,as a method to stop UK secession,then that’s obviously a diplomatic international crisis in which the UK is obviously being bullied by a foreign power and which should be dealt with accordingly.
On that note we can take the EU’s posturing in this case with the same pinch of salt as all the rest of its Federalist hypocrisy.In which now they are saying that we have to have alignment with Labour standards rules.You mean like the EU standing by when remainer Thatcher decimated trade union rights here while our EU counterparts enjoy the continuing right to strike in the form of secondary action for just one example.Let alone the continuing allowance of East Euro wage rate slashing and free movement of low wage expectation labour distorting the labour market,and as a result causing havoc to the wage bargaining process,across Western Europe.
Franglais:
Harvey: if professional such as a lawyer, financial advisor or a mechanic told me to “have faith” I would tell them to go back and check everything!
When it suits your biased Federalist purpose you’re obviously happy to accept anything which Tony Blair says,regarding the benefits for us all of EU membership,as being true and faultless.
Interesting piece from : ‘Pride’s Purge ~ an irreverent look at UK politics’ 
Fake news to influence the UK public to vote for Brexit has mostly come from our very own so-called professional journalists right here in the UK.
Here’s a list of fake news by the UK press over the last 20 years. Every single story here has been debunked as fake news.
It’s hard to pick just one but my personal favourites are ‘Euronotes cause impotence‘ by the Daily Mail and ‘EU puts speed limit on children’s roundabouts‘ from the always entertaining Daily Express.
See 20 years of FAKE NEWS about EU by UK press. Vote for your ‘favourite’ here:
Franglais:
If we decide to have no border controls to ease traffic, then what is the point of leaving the EU?
We do have border controls at the relevant UK entry points on the UK mainland such as the Irish Sea ports and Heathrow etc.The difference being that when we leave the EU the ‘status’ of EU citizens and goods changes.As opposed to Irish citizens and goods when landing at those ports.Just as was the case before 1973.IE Irish landing in Stranraer or Heathrow no problem.Other Nationals and Freight entering via Eire subject to exactly the same controls as they were then and in the case of non EU entries still are now.Although anyone sending anything from anywhere to the UK mainland via Eire would/should automatically raise suspicion as to why regardless.
whisperingsmith:
Interesting piece from : ‘Pride’s Purge ~ an irreverent look at UK politics’Fake news to influence the UK public to vote for Brexit has mostly come from our very own so-called professional journalists right here in the UK.
Here’s a list of fake news by the UK press over the last 20 years. Every single story here has been debunked as fake news.
It’s hard to pick just one but my personal favourites are ‘Euronotes cause impotence‘ by the Daily Mail and ‘EU puts speed limit on children’s roundabouts‘ from the always entertaining Daily Express.
See 20 years of FAKE NEWS about EU by UK press. Vote for your ‘favourite’ here:
See 20 years of FAKE NEWS about EU by UK press. Vote for your ‘favourite’ here: | Pride's Purge
My favourite fake news is that the EU has maintained peace in Europe and foolishly me I always thought it was NATO
gazsa401:
My favourite fake news is that the EU has maintained peace in Europe and foolishly me I always thought it was NATO
Peace in Europe was actually maintained by the efforts of independent nation states defending themselves against the aggression of numerous Federations ironically Germany itself being a Federation which wanted to set up the even bigger pan European 3rd Reich.While most recently the secessionist Yugoslav states v the aggression of the JNA and Yugoslav Federal government.
You know that a Federalist is lying when they try to make the case for Federations being stronger militarily and that supposedly translates as more peace.That worked well when Germany and the Soviet Union invaded Poland in 1939 and the US degenerated into a massive killing field in 1860-65 on the orders of Lincoln.
gazsa401:
whisperingsmith:
Interesting piece from : ‘Pride’s Purge ~ an irreverent look at UK politics’ [emoji38]Fake news to influence the UK public to vote for Brexit has mostly come from our very own so-called professional journalists right here in the UK.
Here’s a list of fake news by the UK press over the last 20 years. Every single story here has been debunked as fake news.
It’s hard to pick just one but my personal favourites are ‘Euronotes cause impotence‘ by the Daily Mail and ‘EU puts speed limit on children’s roundabouts‘ from the always entertaining Daily Express.
See 20 years of FAKE NEWS about EU by UK press. Vote for your ‘favourite’ here:
See 20 years of FAKE NEWS about EU by UK press. Vote for your ‘favourite’ here: | Pride's PurgeMy favourite fake news is that the EU has maintained peace in Europe and foolishly me I always thought it was NATO
Having ex-enemies in a defense pact is undoubtedly a good thing.
Having their economies ■■■■■■■ together, so that even if a future government tried to renage on it’s defence promises is surely also a good thing.
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Franglais:
gazsa401:
My favourite fake news is that the EU has maintained peace in Europe and foolishly me I always thought it was NATOHaving ex-enemies in a defense pact is undoubtedly a good thing.
You mean like France and Russia in 1914 and Italy and Austria/Germany in 1939.
While Japan obviously doesn’t agree with you in the case of China.As opposed to making its own alliances as it sees fit according to its own national interest.On that note by your logic why does Japan still see China as a potential enemy and the US as an ally ?.
Carryfast:
gazsa401:
My favourite fake news is that the EU has maintained peace in Europe and foolishly me I always thought it was NATOPeace in Europe was actually maintained by the efforts of independent nation states defending themselves against the aggression of numerous Federations ironically Germany itself being a Federation which wanted to set up the even bigger pan European 3rd Reich.While most recently the secessionist Yugoslav states v the aggression of the JNA and Yugoslav Federal government.
You know that a Federalist is lying when they try to make the case for Federations being stronger militarily and that supposedly translates as more peace.That worked well when Germany and the Soviet Union invaded Poland in 1939 and the US degenerated into a massive killing field in 1860-65 on the orders of Lincoln.
OMG your now re-fighting the American Civil war “CF” so will we have a different result this time around ? Cheers Bewick
Bewick:
OMG your now re-fighting the American Civil war “CF” so will we have a different result this time around ? Cheers Bewick
Meet our American allies. 
tnm.me/news/political/brexit-te … rd-the-tnm
Which is why Trump talks a good Brexit fight but is really on message with the EU project behind closed doors and that’s one of the real reasons why we don’t stand a chance of defeating the EU Federalists.IE the US government let alone US president obviously can’t countenance secession within Europe because of the implications of that at home.
Watching the news this morning it seems that all partys are going to reject the EU/Theresa May plan … lets hope this leads to a no deal Brexit so we can get back to living our lives free of EU beauraprats and their ridiculous laws and rules
874 days ago we voted to leave the EU and it feels a bit like death row in America and we are still not sure what the outcome will be, perhaps when Theresa May has had her cabinet meeting this afternoon we shall be clearer on what is going to happen but at the moment it looks like rejection and a no deal which I am hoping for else we will be tied to there lawmaking and rules with absolutely no say or redress against them, Buzzer
ramone:
Watching the news this morning it seems that all partys are going to reject the EU/Theresa May plan … lets hope this leads to a no deal Brexit so we can get back to living our lives free of EU beauraprats and their ridiculous laws and rules
Unfortunately that isn’t the motivation for its rejection by the majority of the quislings.They want to derail the whole Brexit process and remainer May is just continuing to give them the means and the time to do it.Make no mistake there will be a general election long before we ever get Brexit in whatever form with May keeping the EU membership door open so that the new government can over turn the referendum decision using the excuse of having a parliamentary mandate to do it.It’s clear that was always the plan and Cameron’s insurance policy if by some miracle he lost the referendum vote.Can’t believe that Farage and the Leave vote was naive enough to fall for this bs non binding remain if they win remain if they lose referendum scam.
Buzzer:
874 days ago we voted to leave the EU and it feels a bit like death row in America and we are still not sure what the outcome will be, perhaps when Theresa May has had her cabinet meeting this afternoon we shall be clearer on what is going to happen but at the moment it looks like rejection and a no deal which I am hoping for else we will be tied to there lawmaking and rules with absolutely no say or redress against them, Buzzer
A no deal Brexit ain’t going to happen because there are more remainers that make up the parliament,than real committed Brexiteers including among the Cons and obviously the Conservative leadership and Cameron knew it when he called the referendum and then handed the job over to May.The referendum deliberately having been drawn up to be a non binding document with parliament having the final say.In which case the choice is either remain or remain in all but name with the quislings just arguing about who can sell out the country the most between Starmer’s rabble v May’s.Possibly even to the point of an agreement between Labour remainers and Cons along the lines of May’s obvious predictable sell out having delayed and derailed Brexit precisely for that reason.
Fingers crossed Buzzer that it all collapses in a pile of ■■■■■ and we go to NO DEAL OK yea ! And just in the last half hour 11 Scottish MP’s have written a letter to Teresa telling her that unless we get back full control of our fisheries they will vote against her “deal” ! So if the DUP take the same line as well as a good number of Tory MP’s it would only be the Labour shower that could save her ! I hope she should be suitably ashamed of herself if this was to be the outcome ! But its doubtful whether the Corbynista Marxists would go down that road, it is not in their DNA to support a Party and PM they detest ! So stand by for our “call to arms” Buzzer who knows we could be in Brussels tomorrow night sorting the whole stinking heap out ! Our meeting with Barnier and Junker would be very short and reduced to a few choice Anglo Saxon expletives ! Cheers Dennis.
I wonder what little favours Teresa promised her “supporters” in their private meetings today in return for their backing her deal? Whatever, it still has to get through parliament here, and then get the approval of 27 EU member countries. “IN, A, NOT, HELL, HOPE”, springs to mind.
Dennis the spineless cabinet of the prime minister have backed her deal proposals all the time knowing she has little or no chance of getting it signed off, if she does it will be a blatant disregard of a democratic vote held back in 2016 plus we will have to pay the 39 billion severance to the EU, so how much does that mean per capita in real terms, my calculator cannot handle such huge figures to work it out. Talk of no confidence in TM well that just goes to show what ■■■■■■■ there are in the cabinet who have not got the balls to vote how they really feel, its all a fudge as far as I am concerned and hope it all gets rejected for the sake of our country, Buzzer.