Eu referendum whats your vote

[dexxy57]

Spardo:

dexxy57:
Her leadership qualities and credibility are somewhat lacking.

Fair point to you too mate, but for one thing, I would substitute the word ‘lacking’ for the word ‘unknown’. Of course it could be said to amount to much the same thing but at least she hasn’t got a shaky or bad record to contend with.

OK, I’ll go with ‘unknown’, but I’m not holding my breath. To the best of my knowledge she carries no serious legacy . Fair enough.
But when it comes to Leadership you have to think of someone who can take command and exert influence. You have to think of someone like Obama, or Merkel, or (and, I’m feeling bitter just typing out her name) . . Thatcher.
For better or worse, they were in control, demanding respect. They weren’t necessarily getting affection or fan mail, but they were at least getting respect.
And then you think of Swinson, or Corbyn, or Johnson . . . they are not leaders. They inspire no confidence whatsoever. Utter lightweights when it comes to commanding respect.
How did it ever come to be that these three became the leaders of their respective parties?

[juddian]

Obama and Merkel command(ed) respect? only by those who believe every word a bought and paid for MSM utters, the rest of us have a somewhat different view.

Independent free thinkers tend to look at results and what people actually do once they gain power, not by the eagerly ‘‘reported’’ soundbites written by umpteen stooges that fall like confetti from their mouths, to be fair to Obama he was an excellent orator and looked good on camera, which are good attributes for an actor, his Presidency however was one of stagnation and continued the destruction of the middle east and Libya started by Bush (and his Blair poodle), a series of regime changes which true history if it’s allowed to be written or known will show has not only brought utter misery and complete instability to vast swathes of the planet but heralded the current and yet to be infinitely worse demographic catastrophe in Western Europe, which will change all of our childrens lives for the worse and will in time to come see many in western europe seeking to migrate to a much safer eastern europe.

Note how many of those seemingly happy to destroy their homelands are childless , including our own T May, another in a long line of pointless political leaders of our UK, time will tell if Johnson means what he says and is cunning enough, because he’ll have to use cunning, to pull Brexit off despite the treachery and treason shown by so many of the elected and unelected that surround him.

[dexxy57]

Juddian:
Obama and Merkel command(ed) respect? only by those who believe every word a bought and paid for MSM utters, the rest of us have a somewhat different view.

Independent free thinkers tend to look at results and what people actually do once they gain power, not by the eagerly ‘‘reported’’ soundbites written by umpteen stooges that fall like confetti from their mouths, to be fair to Obama he was an excellent orator and looked good on camera, which are good attributes for an actor, his Presidency however was one of stagnation and continued the destruction of the middle east and Libya started by Bush (and his Blair poodle), a series of regime changes which true history if it’s allowed to be written or known will show has not only brought utter misery and complete instability to vast swathes of the planet but heralded the current and yet to be infinitely worse demographic catastrophe in Western Europe, which will change all of our childrens lives for the worse and will in time to come see many in western europe seeking to migrate to a much safer eastern europe.

Note how many of those seemingly happy to destroy their homelands are childless , including our own T May, another in a long line of pointless political leaders of our UK, time will tell if Johnson means what he says and is cunning enough, because he’ll have to use cunning, to pull Brexit off despite the treachery and treason shown by so many of the elected and unelected that surround him.

Christ, are you and CF a double act? The two of you don’t half ramble.

I never said anything about what Obama did or said, I just said he commanded respect. He was taken seriously, whether or not you agreed with him. The same goes for other political leaders. Macron, for example. Not the most popular guy in the UK, but he’s worthy of respect, whether or not you agree with him. Even the evil cow from the 70’s was worthy of respect. She at least had a backbone and stuck to her views.

Johnson leans whatever way the wind blows, he’s a proven opportunistic compulsive liar. The jury is most certainly not out on that one. He is not taken seriously, therefore, commands no respect. Swinson is just lightweight, completely out of her depth. Corbyn at least has principles, but as a leader he just doesn’t cut it.

The bit I highlighted by the way, that’s Brexit you’re talking about.

I now await the predictable response from yourself or CF accusing me of being quisling federalist scum.

Have a good day.

[ramone]

dexxy57:

Juddian:
Obama and Merkel command(ed) respect? only by those who believe every word a bought and paid for MSM utters, the rest of us have a somewhat different view.

Independent free thinkers tend to look at results and what people actually do once they gain power, not by the eagerly ‘‘reported’’ soundbites written by umpteen stooges that fall like confetti from their mouths, to be fair to Obama he was an excellent orator and looked good on camera, which are good attributes for an actor, his Presidency however was one of stagnation and continued the destruction of the middle east and Libya started by Bush (and his Blair poodle), a series of regime changes which true history if it’s allowed to be written or known will show has not only brought utter misery and complete instability to vast swathes of the planet but heralded the current and yet to be infinitely worse demographic catastrophe in Western Europe, which will change all of our childrens lives for the worse and will in time to come see many in western europe seeking to migrate to a much safer eastern europe.

Note how many of those seemingly happy to destroy their homelands are childless , including our own T May, another in a long line of pointless political leaders of our UK, time will tell if Johnson means what he says and is cunning enough, because he’ll have to use cunning, to pull Brexit off despite the treachery and treason shown by so many of the elected and unelected that surround him.

Christ, are you and CF a double act? The two of you don’t half ramble.

I never said anything about what Obama did or said, I just said he commanded respect. He was taken seriously, whether or not you agreed with him. The same goes for other political leaders. Macron, for example. Not the most popular guy in the UK, but he’s worthy of respect, whether or not you agree with him. Even the evil cow from the 70’s was worthy of respect. She at least had a backbone and stuck to her views.

Johnson leans whatever way the wind blows, he’s a proven opportunistic compulsive liar. The jury is most certainly not out on that one. He is not taken seriously, therefore, commands no respect. Swinson is just lightweight, completely out of her depth. Corbyn at least has principles, but as a leader he just doesn’t cut it.

The bit I highlighted by the way, that’s Brexit you’re talking about.

I now await the predictable response from yourself or CF accusing me of being quisling federalist scum.

Have a good day.

Corbyns the one who leans the way the wind blows a eurosceptic backbencher now championing the corrupt set up ffs

[carryfast]

ramone:
Corbyns the one who leans the way the wind blows a eurosceptic backbencher now championing the corrupt set up ffs

Corbyn was always sitting on the fence regarding the EU.The really big Labour anti EU names were Benn,Shore and Heffer never Corbyn.

He’s all about what he thinks is best to deliver Soviet Socialism and by definition that ideology can only result in a Supra National Federalist mess like the…Soviet Union because at the end of the day it doesn’t believe in the idea of the Nation State.In which case him and his band of muppets think they can turn the EU into an EUSSR.While the real leaders of this agenda ( German Federalism and its 4th Reich ) just sees them as useful idiots.

As for the Tories they are just another bunch of ideologically Federalist muppets and still people believe that they will deliver Brexit.

[carryfast]

dexxy57:
I now await the predictable response from yourself or CF accusing me of being quisling federalist scum.

Not from Juddian you won’t he seems to have gone soft towards the EU establishment line lately.

[whisperingsmith]

CF - why is that you remind me of Jim McCawber Brexit MEP https://twitter.com/JMcCawberMEP

[carryfast]

whisperingsmith:
CF - why is that you remind me of Jim McCawber Brexit MEP https://twitter.com/JMcCawberMEP

Spare us the anti Federalist = Xenophobic propaganda.Even the zb level of sarcasm shows the intelligence levels of its useful idiots.It’s all been done before by Tito.That worked out well.

[dexxy57]

whisperingsmith:
CF - why is that you remind me of Jim McCawber Brexit MEP https://twitter.com/JMcCawberMEP

Never heard of him, had to check him out.
Very funny.
Jim McCawber’s funny too.

[juddian]

Carryfast:

dexxy57:
I now await the predictable response from yourself or CF accusing me of being quisling federalist scum.

Not from Juddian you won’t he seems to have gone soft towards the EU establishment line lately.

No, he hasn’t, he’s waiting to see what exactly happens come 31st October.
Just watching in morbid fascination as parliament and its three pointless parties, ignoring the Jock and Welsh lot cos they hate everyone , heap ever more wood on their own funeral pyres.

Whilst i have my doubts, i’ll give Johnson and his team the benefit of the doubt until he proves to be May in a collar and no tie, who together with his party will have condemned themselves to well deserved oblivion.

One thing the last three years have proved and that is our political system is broken, and is going to have to be completely redesigned from the bottom up, no one still able to think for themselves is now under any illusion just what our parliaments have become, basically the enemy of the people they are supposed to serve but instead hold in complete contempt, the feeling is mutual.

Starkey once more in far more in depth discussion, about our current state and what has gone so badly wrong, with Peter Whittle of the New Culture Forum, this interview from may this year, but in which he makes some eye opening correlations between what is happening now and right back when Henry V111 mastered arguably the first Brexit, fascinating stuff.
youtube.com/watch?v=i8bECAHIgNQ

I wouldn’t advise those with closed minds to watch it.

[franglais]

dexxy57:

whisperingsmith:
CF - why is that you remind me of Jim McCawber Brexit MEP https://twitter.com/JMcCawberMEP

Never heard of him, had to check him out.
Very funny.
Jim McCawber’s funny too.

Ive just looked at McCawbers Twitter too. I certainly am not a Brexit Party insider so wonder if he could become their next leader? He does seem to represent the mainstream views there. . If Spardo reads this, knowing he doesnt always follow links, I suggest he does look at these however…see what the future holds.

[franglais]

Following an earlier question of mine:
Sept 18th.
Parliament is trying to stop a Hard Brexit, not any/all Brexits.
.
Pre 2016 vote how many were speaking of the present situation? I asked before if any here could show any links about that? None yet.
Isn’t Johnson trying to force through something that wasn’t in the original plan? When did Farage/Gove/Johnson etc ask for a vote for what we are faced with now?
No replies yet.

Anyway heres another query: There are many references on this thread to the "corrupt" EU. So, how corrupt is it? Is it more corrupt that the UK Parliament, with its brown envelopes and housing allowance and expenses scandals?
Should we say “corrupt” everytime we mention Westminster?

[spardo]

Franglais:

dexxy57:

whisperingsmith:
CF - why is that you remind me of Jim McCawber Brexit MEP https://twitter.com/JMcCawberMEP

Never heard of him, had to check him out.
Very funny.
Jim McCawber’s funny too.

Ive just looked at McCawbers Twitter too. I certainly am not a Brexit Party insider so wonder if he could become their next leader? He does seem to represent the mainstream views there. . If Spardo reads this, knowing he doesnt always follow links, I suggest he does look at these however…see what the future holds.

OK Franglais, I followed your advice and read the Twitter thing, in spite being half blocked off by a great big panel urging me to register Do you think Farage realises that this bloke isn’t a Brexiteer at all, he is a ■■■■ taker worthy of his own show on Radio 4.

I would definitely listen but I’m buggered if I’m going to sign up to Twitter to do so.

I do wonder how many people really think he is an MEP though, lots I imagine, probably all those who agree with his sentiments.

[franglais]

Spardo:

Franglais:

dexxy57:

whisperingsmith:
CF - why is that you remind me of Jim McCawber Brexit MEP https://twitter.com/JMcCawberMEP

Never heard of him, had to check him out.
Very funny.
Jim McCawber’s funny too.

Ive just looked at McCawbers Twitter too. I certainly am not a Brexit Party insider so wonder if he could become their next leader? He does seem to represent the mainstream views there. . If Spardo reads this, knowing he doesnt always follow links, I suggest he does look at these however…see what the future holds.

OK Franglais, I followed your advice and read the Twitter thing, in spite being half blocked off by a great big panel urging me to register Do you think Farage realises that this bloke isn’t a Brexiteer at all, he is a ■■■■ taker worthy of his own show on Radio 4.

I would definitely listen but I’m buggered if I’m going to sign up to Twitter to do so.

I do wonder how many people really think he is an MEP though, lots I imagine, probably all those who agree with his sentiments.

What !
He`s not genuine? …
…Are you sure?

Im not on Twitter either. It has uses, but doesnt seem a good medium for serious debate to me. Good to get a quick, over-simplified, idea out there maybe, but not much else.

[carryfast]

Franglais:
Following an earlier question of mine:
Sept 18th.
Parliament is trying to stop a Hard Brexit, not any/all Brexits.

Any so called ‘Brexit’ which keeps us tied to EU rule in any way shape or form isn’t Brexit at all.It’s obvious that the Federalists only intended a one sided referendum which was effectively a self affirmation exercise to tie us to Lisbon nothing more nothing less.Having somehow lost that it’s obvious that they’ve now predictably hijacked the article 50 process,itself just a defence in depth against secession,with the intention of keeping us part of the EU ‘in whatever way shape or form’ call it what you will but it ain’t Brexit.Brexit means Brexit and Leave means Leave not a bit of Brexit and lots of Remain,let alone the real intention of these Federalist traitor scum revoke and Remain sooner or later.

It’s now time for the forces to act.In fact it was time for that in 1972 when FC0 30/1048 was hidden away from the public and possibly even HM.With the obvious intention of deliberately misleading the Queen,to provide assent to an illegal act of parliament,which handed over the country’s government to a foreign power and mandate.

On that basis this argument has gone way past being up for discussion with these EU loyalist traitors arguably since 1972.

[buzzer]

Pretty much on the money

[franglais]

Buzzer:
Pretty much on the money

You reckon?
Cash For Questions, Hutton Enquiry, Cash for Peerages (2006), Cash for Influence (2009), Expenses, Housing Allowance, Chilcot Enquiry?
Plus many individual MPs acting less than honourably in many ways. Fiona Onasanya, Andrew Griffiths, Jeremy Hunt.
It is true we don`t need the EU for some things it seems.

[dexxy57]

Franglais:

Buzzer:
Pretty much on the money

You reckon?
Cash For Questions, Hutton Enquiry, Cash for Peerages (2006), Cash for Influence (2009), Expenses, Housing Allowance, Chilcot Enquiry?
Plus many individual MPs acting less than honourably in many ways. Fiona Onasanya, Andrew Griffiths, Jeremy Hunt.
It is true we don`t need the EU for some things it seems.

Ok, calm down Franglais, all the examples you give are valid. Buzzer’s point is equally valid

It took something as big as Brexit to show up their incompetence. They are now completely out of their depth.
The examples you give are of MP’s just going with the flow, feeling that they were in some way ‘protected’ or ‘immune’ from taking
decisions. They were probably towing the party line when they were voting.
That’s what MP’s do on a national scale.
They sort out council houses or potholes on a local level, but nationally, they’re just cannon fodder votes for the Party. They make up the numbers essentially.

[franglais]

dexxy57:

Franglais:

Buzzer:
Pretty much on the money

You reckon?
Cash For Questions, Hutton Enquiry, Cash for Peerages (2006), Cash for Influence (2009), Expenses, Housing Allowance, Chilcot Enquiry?
Plus many individual MPs acting less than honourably in many ways. Fiona Onasanya, Andrew Griffiths, Jeremy Hunt.
It is true we don`t need the EU for some things it seems.

Ok, calm down Franglais, all the examples you give are valid. Buzzer’s point is equally valid

It took something as big as Brexit to show up their incompetence. They are now completely out of their depth.
The examples you give are of MP’s just going with the flow, feeling that they were in some way ‘protected’ or ‘immune’ from taking
decisions. They were probably towing the party line when they were voting.
That’s what MP’s do on a national scale.
They sort out council houses or potholes on a local level, but nationally, they’re just cannon fodder votes for the Party. They make up the numbers essentially.

Didnt the expenses scandals etc give you pause for thought about our MPs before this Brexit stuff? Buzzer and yourself are right that everything is writ large with Brexit, but it was hardly all plain sailing in the past was it? You do raise a very valid point of course: do we (should we?) vote in elections for an individual, or for a party? If the latter, shouldnt we have a proportional representative system?

[spardo]

Franglais:
If the latter, shouldn`t we have a proportional representative system?

Yes!