Morning Whiplash,
I agree with you, many, many years ago (at least 50+ ) I was involved in raising money for a farm tractor and its equipment for an area in Africa which would change the lives of hundreds of people and pave the way for a better future,
It was delivered, expert help in setting it up, how to maintain it, how to use it, training etc etc. then everyone left.
When the battery ran out it was sold off and everyone returned to “little hope”.
Just giving is not the answer. Harvey
HRS:
Morning Whiplash,
I agree with you, many, many years ago (at least 50+ ) I was involved in raising money for a farm tractor and its equipment for an area in Africa which would change the lives of hundreds of people and pave the way for a better future,
It was delivered, expert help in setting it up, how to maintain it, how to use it, training etc etc. then everyone left.
When the battery ran out it was sold off and everyone returned to “little hope”.
Just giving is not the answer. Harvey
So, the tractor was bought by someone who did know how to operate it correctly. (It wouldnt have been bought as an ornament, would it) Someone gets a useful 2nd hand tractor. The village gets cash from the sale to buy something they do know how to use. Maybe the tractor wasnt the best thing for that village? May not be the most efficient use of cash, but not as depressing as it first sounds maybe?
Edit to add: if the only problem was a flat battery, and the village wanted the tractor, then the maintenance training was at fault.
Franglais:
HRS:
Morning Whiplash,
I agree with you, many, many years ago (at least 50+ ) I was involved in raising money for a farm tractor and its equipment for an area in Africa which would change the lives of hundreds of people and pave the way for a better future,
It was delivered, expert help in setting it up, how to maintain it, how to use it, training etc etc. then everyone left.
When the battery ran out it was sold off and everyone returned to “little hope”.
Just giving is not the answer. HarveySo, the tractor was bought by someone who did know how to operate it correctly. (It wouldn
t have been bought as an ornament, would it) Someone gets a useful 2nd hand tractor. The village gets cash from the sale to buy something they do know how to use. Maybe the tractor wasnt the best thing for that village? May not be the most efficient use of cash, but not as depressing as it first sounds maybe?Edit to add: if the only problem was a flat battery, and the village wanted the tractor, then the maintenance training was at fault.
I’ve got a much better idea, if sending a tractor to Africa doesn’t work, why don’t we invite them all to live in England, where they could be taught properly? 
What could possibly go wrong? Hmm.
Spardo:
Franglais:
HRS:
Morning Whiplash,
I agree with you, many, many years ago (at least 50+ ) I was involved in raising money for a farm tractor and its equipment for an area in Africa which would change the lives of hundreds of people and pave the way for a better future,
It was delivered, expert help in setting it up, how to maintain it, how to use it, training etc etc. then everyone left.
When the battery ran out it was sold off and everyone returned to “little hope”.
Just giving is not the answer. HarveySo, the tractor was bought by someone who did know how to operate it correctly. (It wouldn
t have been bought as an ornament, would it) Someone gets a useful 2nd hand tractor. The village gets cash from the sale to buy something they do know how to use. Maybe the tractor wasnt the best thing for that village? May not be the most efficient use of cash, but not as depressing as it first sounds maybe?Edit to add: if the only problem was a flat battery, and the village wanted the tractor, then the maintenance training was at fault.
I’ve got a much better idea, if sending a tractor to Africa doesn’t work, why don’t we invite them all to live in England, where they could be taught properly?
What could possibly go wrong? Hmm.
That could work.
Or ask them what they do really want? Sometimes aid is a form of subsidy to our factories, sending tractors from factories that cant sell em here. Im not saying that is the case in HRSs example, and Im sure those who gave cash had good intentions, but more though may be needed in charity work.
Franglais:
That could work.
Or ask them what they do really want? Sometimes aid is a form of subsidy to our factories, sending tractors from factories that cant sell em here. Im not saying that is the case in HRSs example, and Im sure those who gave cash had good intentions, but more though may be needed in charity work.
A bit along the lines of don’t give them fish but give them fishing lines then ?
Or would we simply be substituting fishing lines for tractors?
Helping people is not always an easy thing to do. 
Maybe the first step would be to stop so much of the Money disappearing into the pockets of corrupt leaders,and the so called ‘‘administrators’’ of charities so the the majority of the Money goes to those for whom it was intended in the first Place.
hutpik:
Maybe the first step would be to stop so much of the Money disappearing into the pockets of corrupt leaders,and the so called ‘‘administrators’’ of charities so the the majority of the Money goes to those for whom it was intended in the first Place.
Easy fix then !
Just stop corruption.
Why not.If we stop giving Money then the people will soon Wake up and do something about the corruption.
Anyway isn’t it time that we started taking care of our own countries and people first.
hutpik:
Why not.If we stop giving Money then the people will soon Wake up and do something about the corruption.
Anyway isn’t it time that we started taking care of our own countries and people first.
What are you saying? That the populations of needy countries are happy to have corrupt leaders, so long as the West just about stops them from starving?
Is all they gotta do to get rid of corruption is just get their finger out? Heard of those wars in Libya and Syria? They are about more than someone skimming a bit off the top, but corruption is integral to their former/present regimes.
Do some sections of own people need more help? Yes they do.
The 0.7% we pay out in aid isn`t going to do much unfortunately.
And stopping aid to Syria, for instance isnt going to help the youth there want to stay is it? Isnt it going to encourage more of them to leave and find a better life somewhere else…maybe here?
Stopping aid will NOT make a big difference to ourselves. It WILL make a great difference to those who rely on what we give.
And purely personally, I think it`s morally correct for us to help those who need help.
See that little rodent Gove wants to extend Brexit into 2020 but I think that’s just a vote catcher from the remain vote hoping he can get in to No10, watched Andrea Leadsom on the Andrew Marr show this morning and she was a match for him for sure and was not going to get cut short on her answers, outside bet for to No 10 IMO but we will see, challenged on the 900 or so things that have to be passed for Brexit she assured him that the majority of these had been passed in case of a no deal exit, onwards with hope the hope of leaving at the end of October (this year that is) Buzzer.
Franglais,you have your opinion and i have mine.Having lived and worked in many of those countries since the 70’s i have lost my sympathy.Many of those countries could change if the will was there,but in many cases it’s easier just to hold out your hand to the international Community.
As to morals,and old phrase '‘Charity begins at home’'springs to mind.This is something which successive governments and generations seem to have forgotten in relation to our own poor,needy and old.
hutpik:
Franglais,you have your opinion and i have mine.Having lived and worked in many of those countries since the 70’s i have lost my sympathy.Many of those countries could change if the will was there,but in many cases it’s easier just to hold out your hand to the international Community.
As to morals,and old phrase '‘Charity begins at home’'springs to mind.This is something which successive governments and generations seem to have forgotten in relation to our own poor,needy and old.
Well, if we cant agree about much here, could we maybe agree that our population shouldnt need charity at all?
If we here, in the UK have food banks, and older individuals apparently choosing between heating and food in the winter a disgrace?
As a civilised society we should never have that.
Isn’t this a great thread ? After 140 pages, the centre of gravity appears by degrees to be shifting farther away from the relatively mere bagatelle that is Brexit, and closer towards the core issues that ultimately affect us all, irrespective of nationality.
Eddie Heaton:
Isn’t this a great thread ? After 140 pages, the centre of gravity appears by degrees to be shifting farther away from the relatively mere bagatelle that is Brexit, and closer towards the core issues that ultimately affect us all, irrespective of nationality.
It surely ebbs and flows, to and fro…
Do we all remember the woman asked a few questions by an interviewer…
“Excuse me madam, who makes the decisions in your household?”
“Oh, thats my husband makes all the *important* decisions." "Who decides about holiday destinations, then?" "Well I do." "Who decides about insurance?" "I do" "Who decides about which appliances to buy?" "Me of course" "Mortgage renewal?" "Me." Pause..... "Well, what are these important things that concern your husband then?" "Hes always busy with his mates on TNUK sorting out World peace to be worried about anything else!”
Buzzer:
See that little rodent Gove wants to extend Brexit into 2020 but I think that’s just a vote catcher from the remain vote hoping he can get in to No10,
Missed that Buzzer, are you saying that Gove wants to put off Brexit till next year, or simply that he is prepared to wait for however long it takes ? Or more to the point, however long the EU is prepared to keep the whole charade hanging in the air?
Can’t see the EU going along with that, it may well be that October 31st really is the deadline, and in any case I can’t see him being attractive to any true Remainer. Especially not this one 
. But then of course like the vast majority of the population, including me and most in this thread possibly, it is a very tiny electorate he is aiming at. 
Franglais:
hutpik:
Franglais,you have your opinion and i have mine.Having lived and worked in many of those countries since the 70’s i have lost my sympathy.Many of those countries could change if the will was there,but in many cases it’s easier just to hold out your hand to the international Community.
As to morals,and old phrase '‘Charity begins at home’'springs to mind.This is something which successive governments and generations seem to have forgotten in relation to our own poor,needy and old.Well, if we can
t agree about much here, could we maybe agree that our population shouldnt need charity at all?
If we here, in the UK have food banks, and older individuals apparently choosing between heating and food in the winter a disgrace?
As a civilised society we should never have that.
Well cut the International Aid budget ! Now that would/should alleviate a lot of the poverty at Home ! But I noticed that some, not all, that are using food Banks smoke, drink alcohol and have mobile phones !!! So are cigs,drink and phones now classed as necessities and food comes second ■■ I agree that we should definitely look after those that truly deserve help but many of the “so called” destitute are “taking the ■■■■” ! Others may hold a different opinion! Cheers Bewick.
Dennis nail on the head right there as food is a secondary consideration in a lot of households and if they can get a food hand out for nought they will while dragging on a ■■■ and swilling a pint or three. Personally I could not smoke when they cost over a tenner a packet even though I did for 40 odd years but not in the last ten. The only plus on food banks is the supermarkets give it free and this saves it going to landfill which would probably cost them more big hearted that they are, cheers Buzzer.
PS. as for the Conservative leadership contest I think any of the candidates who have fiddled expenses should be eliminated, that would shorten the numbers for sure.
So, 1) the tractor was bought by someone who did know how to operate it correctly. (It wouldnt have been bought as an ornament, would it) 2) Someone gets a useful 2nd hand tractor. 3) The village gets cash from the sale to buy something they do know how to use. 4) Maybe the tractor wasnt the best thing for that village? May not be the most efficient use of cash, but not as depressing as it first sounds maybe?
Edit to add: 5) if the only problem was a flat battery, and the village wanted the tractor, then the maintenance training was at fault.
[/quote]
- The tractor was bought by someone who did not know how to use it, but new who to sell it to well out of the area.
- A white trader.
- the chap who sold it only gave some of the money (a pitance) that disolved into a few days food for all.
- As Spardo said it represented the fishing line.
- I could understand that comment if it was a village in Kent.
The culture of people who have nothing is differant to the western world, If we lived in a dry lifeless area and our babies were dieing would we keep poping them out.
I dont have an answer but that is no reason to stop.
Harvey
HRS:
So, 1) the tractor was bought by someone who did know how to operate it correctly. (It wouldnt have been bought as an ornament, would it) 2) Someone gets a useful 2nd hand tractor. 3) The village gets cash from the sale to buy something they do know how to use. 4) Maybe the tractor wasnt the best thing for that village? May not be the most efficient use of cash, but not as depressing as it first sounds maybe?Edit to add: 5) if the only problem was a flat battery, and the village wanted the tractor, then the maintenance training was at fault.
- The tractor was bought by someone who did not know how to use it, but new who to sell it to well out of the area.
- A white trader.
- the chap who sold it only gave some of the money (a pitance) that disolved into a few days food for all.
- As Spardo said it represented the fishing line.
5) I could understand that comment if it was a village in Kent.
The culture of people who have nothing is differant to the western world, If we lived in a dry lifeless area and our babies were dieing would we keep poping them out.
I dont have an answer but that is no reason to stop.
Harvey
[/quote]
Scotty: “That went over my head at warp factor nine Captain, please explain.”
The Kent village thing flew past me too.
.
'Re big families, if some societies relying on subsistence farming, and have no formal social support it is only your family you can rely on. If you don’t want to starve when ill or old you need kids.
Obviously more to it than that, but it is a factor.