dexxy57:
You’re right, it’s not as if it won’t happen, it’s simply that it CAN’T happen. It would go against everything they stand for.
Hindsight’s great . . . if only they granted the UK exemption from freedom of movement, it might not have led to Brexit. That was never going to happen.
Hindsight?
Ill bet Blair is kicking himself for precipitously allowing the EE countries free movement in 2004. But, maybe he "doesnt do regret"?
That hindsight thing, we surely have all been there and think to ourselves i got that wrong but when it comes to polititians i dont think that is the case. They always seem to have a plausable excuse and bluff there way out of it with waffle and at the end of the day we put them there to do a job and with Brexit they are certainly not doing that which ever way you voted, we desperately need to move on, Buzzer
PS was that a bit of praise D57 I just fell out the pulpit.
dexxy57:
You’re right, it’s not as if it won’t happen, it’s simply that it CAN’T happen. It would go against everything they stand for.
Hindsight’s great . . . if only they granted the UK exemption from freedom of movement, it might not have led to Brexit. That was never going to happen.
Hindsight?
Ill bet Blair is kicking himself for precipitously allowing the EE countries free movement in 2004. But, maybe he "doesnt do regret"?
You’re right. Blair doesn’t do regret.
Did he actually ‘allow’ the EU countries free movement though?
I mean, was it actually in his power to allow them? Or, (and I’m showing my lack of knowledge here), could the UK have exempted itself from freedom of movement, just as it exempted itself from having the Euro as its currency?
dexxy57:
You’re right. Blair doesn’t do regret. Was it up to him to ‘allow’ the EU countries free movement though?
Yes it was, new joiners could be kept at bay for several years, forget how many, to allow gradual integration. France certainly did that and others too. But Blair made a big miscalculation as to how many would come. Mainly because the other countries had put the block on that they were permitted to do, so UK became the prime ‘target’.
I have always blamed 3 people for Brexit. Blair, because he allowed the swamping of the country. Clegg, because he reneged on the student fee pledge and his party got the full blame. Without the electoral failure next time the LibDems weren’t there to rein in daft Cameron. And Cameron for calling a referendum he did not need to.
Pratt though I think he is, I don’t blame Farage at all. He has stated his cause for many years. We all knew where he stood.
dexxy57:
You’re right. Blair doesn’t do regret.
Did he actually ‘allow’ the EU countries free movement though?
I mean, was it actually in his power to allow them? Or, (and I’m showing my lack of knowledge here), could the UK have exempted itself from freedom of movement, just as it exempted itself from having the Euro as its currency?
Try this piece from 2016.
Germany, France and others, all within the EU rules, allowed the EE workers in only gradually.
UK, Eire allowed them in from day one.
It was a UK decision to go the way we did.
We couldn`t get out of free movement, but we had no need to go beyond the requirement of the EU did we?
Buzzer:
hat hindsight thing, we surely have all been there and think to ourselves i got that wrong but when it comes to polititians i dont think that is the case. They always seem to have a plausable excuse and bluff there way out of it with waffle
Too true.
Personally, I am not sure how much influence immigration really has, but it surely true that it was a major factor for many voters.
And the EU getting the blame for a Blair decision…well as Buzzer rightly says politicos will use anything to evade responsibility for their errors.
Buzzer:
That hindsight thing, we surely have all been there and think to ourselves i got that wrong but when it comes to polititians i dont think that is the case. They always seem to have a plausable excuse and bluff there way out of it with waffle and at the end of the day we put them there to do a job and with Brexit they are certainly not doing that which ever way you voted, we desperately need to move on, Buzzer
PS was that a bit of praise D57 I just fell out the pulpit.
Woo Hoo, we agree on something Buzzer. Politicians have but one agenda. Themselves. First, last, and in between, their priority is having a seat in Parliament, a seat on the gravy train. They are essentially no better than carpet salesmen. They want your vote, they promise the earth and then feather their own nests (at our expense).
As for them getting on with their job?
They most certainly have NOT delivered on Brexit. But to be fair, nobody realised just how complicated it would turn out to be. The ordinary MP’s are kind of caught in the middle. They might be Remain in their hearts but their constituents might have voted leave, (or vice-versa), so a lot of them have a dilemma. ‘Do I go with what I believe in? Or do I lose my job at the next election because I’ve gone against the wishes of my constituents?’
If they lose their job I couldn’t care less, you’re supposed to aspire to be a politician because of your beliefs, not because you want to milk the system.
As for praising you?
Aye, you say something sensible, then credit where it’s due.
Just had a brain wave well a thought at least sitting here this morning and watching who won at the BAFTA’s on the news, why doesn’t some one make a horror film called Brexit or maybe a comedy series for television would be better, who would the actors be for the main parts. Surely they could have some fun making it, suggestions please Buzzer.
Buzzer:
Just had a brain wave well a thought at least sitting here this morning and watching who won at the BAFTA’s on the news, why doesn’t some one make a horror film called Brexit or maybe a comedy series for television would be better, who would the actors be for the main parts. Surely they could have some fun making it, suggestions please Buzzer.
Have to be good to match
“Yes Minister” wouldn’t it?
Buzzer:
Just had a brain wave well a thought at least sitting here this morning and watching who won at the BAFTA’s on the news, why doesn’t some one make a horror film called Brexit or maybe a comedy series for television would be better, who would the actors be for the main parts. Surely they could have some fun making it, suggestions please Buzzer.
Too late now.But great in 1975.Christopher Plummer playing Ted Heath and Jenny Hanley playing Thatcher and John Cleese playing Roy Jenkins and Robert Lindsay playing Tony Benn and Dave Allen playing Peter Shore and Bernard Manning playing Eric Heffer.
Franglais:
Try this piece from 2016.
Germany, France and others, all within the EU rules, allowed the EE workers in only gradually.
UK, Eire allowed them in from day one.
It was a UK decision to go the way we did.
We couldn`t get out of free movement, but we had no need to go beyond the requirement of the EU did we?
Well, there you go. I was completely unaware of that. Got to keep up more.
Franglais:
Try this piece from 2016.
Germany, France and others, all within the EU rules, allowed the EE workers in only gradually.
UK, Eire allowed them in from day one.
It was a UK decision to go the way we did.
We couldn`t get out of free movement, but we had no need to go beyond the requirement of the EU did we?
Well, there you go. I was completely unaware of that. Got to keep up more.
Blair trying to show that he’s a more enthusiastic EU Federalist than Chirac who would have thought it.
Let alone Franglais thinking that trumps the fact that '‘we couldn’t get out of free movement’ as an EU member state or even an EEA one.Which is what matters here not what Blair did or didn’t do.
Franglais:
Try this piece from 2016.
Germany, France and others, all within the EU rules, allowed the EE workers in only gradually.
UK, Eire allowed them in from day one.
It was a UK decision to go the way we did.
We couldn`t get out of free movement, but we had no need to go beyond the requirement of the EU did we?
Well, there you go. I was completely unaware of that. Got to keep up more.
I am sure there is much I’m unaware of too. But I don’t necessarily know what…
Donald Rumsfeld put it badly, but his speech about “known unknowns, and unknown unknows” was a cracker!
Franglais:
Donald Rumsfeld put it badly, but his speech about “known unknowns, and unknown unknows” was a cracker!
I thought he put it rather well myself, and even at the time when he was being rubbished unmercifully, I though he hit the nail on the head.
Take it slowly bit by bit, and it does make sense. Here it is:
Donald Rumsfeld:
Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.[1]
And, in case anybody thinks that it all started with Rumsfeld, check this out:
Quoted from Persian literature
A thirteenth-century Persian poet, Ibn Yamin[22] (ابن یمین فریومدی), said there are four types of men:[23]
One who knows and knows that he knows… His horse of wisdom will reach the skies.
One who knows, but doesn’t know that he knows… He is fast asleep, so you should wake him up!
One who doesn’t know, but knows that he doesn’t know… His limping mule will eventually get him home.
One who doesn’t know and doesn’t know that he doesn’t know… He will be eternally lost in his hopeless oblivion!
Franglais:
I am sure there is much I’m unaware of too. But I don’t necessarily know what…
Donald Rumsfeld put it badly, but his speech about “known unknowns, and unknown unknows” was a cracker!
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
Donald Rumsfeld was out and out creepy. I pity the poor grandchildren that got read a bedtime story by him. They must be scarred for life.
Spardo:
Take it slowly bit by bit, and it does make sense. Here it is:
Donald Rumsfeld:
Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.[1]
It does makes sense when you break it down and think about it. It was a lot easier at the time, though, for the media to set him up as a soft target for a cheap laugh.
It does make sense. Sure it does . But when you hear his speech, he seems to be explaining it to himself, as much as to the listeners.
.
The antithesis of many more recent politicians. His was a halting unconvincing delivery of an accurate statement. In contrast with newer passionate declamations about…bollox!
Edit.
I take that back. I’ve just watched it again and he did ok… Sorry Don
