yes very good , but , at the time of the referendum i was having a meaningful discussion with a brexit volunteer, and when i tried to explain just in time logistics and asked how would customs clearance effect timed deliveries in the logistics stream, how did he think this would affect deliveries of produce from within the EU . well there was no answer except the usual banner headlines of so much back to the nhs and self rule stuff, in the end he make his excuses and left . and the remain campaign was a pathetic pair of underfed students that day, worse than useless.
laeve means leave , but how you leave that should have been the question
ask 10 people why they voted leave - 10 different answers ,
i know why wellingborough voted to leave , i live it everyday, overwhelmed by east europeans and their habits, umpteen polish shops , idiots on bikes riding on the footpath with no lights , cars ■■■■■■■■■■■■, if at all , 1 headlight , 1 rear light, bald tyres, dogs running around off the lead, noisy , drunk, fighting (all this outside my house by the way) disposing of rubbish in alleyways or other peoples bins , HMO’s everywhere ( i have 1 next door) and a romanian lot 3 doors down
so me - foot in both camps
tonyj105:
yes very good , but , at the time of the referendum i was having a meaningful discussion with a brexit volunteer, and when i tried to explain just in time logistics and asked how would customs clearance effect timed deliveries in the logistics stream, how did he think this would affect deliveries of produce from within the EU . well there was no answer except the usual banner headlines of so much back to the nhs and self rule stuff, in the end he make his excuses and left . and the remain campaign was a pathetic pair of underfed students that day, worse than useless.laeve means leave , but how you leave that should have been the question
ask 10 people why they voted leave - 10 different answers ,
i know why wellingborough voted to leave , i live it everyday, overwhelmed by east europeans and their habits, umpteen polish shops , idiots on bikes riding on the footpath with no lights , cars ■■■■■■■■■■■■, if at all , 1 headlight , 1 rear light, bald tyres, dogs running around off the lead, noisy , drunk, fighting (all this outside my house by the way) disposing of rubbish in alleyways or other peoples bins , HMO’s everywhere ( i have 1 next door) and a romanian lot 3 doors down
so me - foot in both camps
Is the social discord you describe all the fault of the EU though?
Will Brexit cure it?
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tonyj105:
and dont we know it , the problem is there are so many versions of leave ,from stick yer fingers up at em and go with wto rules ( read them , its not great)
to
technically leave , but practically stay in a customs union
There can only be one version of Leave.That means no more rules whatsoever imposed on us to be implemented within our borders from the EU including ECJ.Which by definition counts out EEA and May’s BRINO ‘deal’.
Why do we want to stay in the customs union when by the same definition that means the EU rules regarding freedom of movement etc have to stay in place.Let alone when the ‘customs union’ in question means Brit jobs for Euro workers and an economy strangled by an unsustainable trade deficit.Meaning never ending austerity just to pay the interest on the resulting borrowing requirement needed to pay for it.
well it was a nice place to live before they all arrived over the years, i live next door to them , i’m surrounded by them , i have a K+N and DHL distribution hub near me where they all work , now they’re not all bad , but if you lived where i live ( and i’ve been there over 30 years) you’d soon know what i’m talking about. come and fall over the rubbish , get knocked down by a skooze me pliz geezer on a bike or worse get rammed by one, walk by the abandoned car full of empty lager cans and vodka bottles (he legged it after drink driving), spot how many makes of polish lager there are, have a look at the bald tyres on the romanian car.
oh yes agard was his name , neat line in drug dealing , legged it a couple of hours before the police, then there was the geezer who had no insurance on his car, then the one who didn’t work but managed to neck lager and vodka all day (at the same time), the woman who screamed at her child all day , the current one who’s in an out about every hour and a half from about 4 pm to about 2am .
believe me till you’ve experienced it you dont know . social discord , nah, normal living for them
and no it wont cure it , they’ll still be here leave or no leave, i’m just explaining why a town like mine would vote to leave
Franglais:
tonyj105:
and dont we know it , the problem is there are so many versions of leave ,from stick yer fingers up at em and go with wto rules ( read them , its not great)
to
technically leave , but practically stay in a customs union
Yep.
As has been said it was a straight question.
Remain or Anything/Everything else.
No it definitely said remain or leave not anything/everything else.Leave the EU obviously by definition means an end to EU rule here including ECJ juristiction.All of which is a red herring diverting from the fact that the referendum was always going to be a selectively applied non binding document on the government.Going back to the parliamentary Perogative predictably being the remainers’ ( EU Federalists’ ) default insurance policy if by some miracle Leave won in the face of Cameron’s EU establishment state funded propaganda machine.
While it’s clear that Brexit was never going to be the answer to a European Nationalist v Federalist fight and nor can we isolate ourselves from that fight because a Federal Europe will never accept an independent sovereign UK.In which case forget about the dead duck of so called never going to happen Brexit and let’s get on with that fight by helping and joining other European Nationalist groups to smash the EU from within along the lines of the type of Confederal Europe being described by the AfD.Oh wait BRINO will stop that by isolating UK Nationalists from having a say in the future of Europe while also keeping us under the EU Federalist jackboot.What’s not to like from the Federalists’ point of view and possibly explaining the real agenda behind this charade and which UKIP has blindly fallen in with.
tonyj105:
well it was a nice place to live before they all arrived over the years, i live next door to them , i’m surrounded by them , i have a K+N and DHL distribution hub near me where they all work , now they’re not all bad , but if you lived where i live ( and i’ve been there over 30 years) you’d soon know what i’m talking about. come and fall over the rubbish , get knocked down by a skooze me pliz geezer on a bike or worse get rammed by one, walk by the abandoned car full of empty lager cans and vodka bottles (he legged it after drink driving), spot how many makes of polish lager there are, have a look at the bald tyres on the romanian car.oh yes agard was his name , neat line in drug dealing , legged it a couple of hours before the police, then there was the geezer who had no insurance on his car, then the one who didn’t work but managed to neck lager and vodka all day (at the same time), the woman who screamed at her child all day , the current one who’s in an out about every hour and a half from about 4 pm to about 2am .
believe me till you’ve experienced it you dont know . social discord , nah, normal living for them
and no it wont cure it , they’ll still be here leave or no leave, i’m just explaining why a town like mine would vote to leave
Thanks Tony,you have just reminded me why I never wish to return to the UK!!,even if
Dennis says he has spotted a Big J with a 240 Percy in it!!!
David
tonyj105:
well it was a nice place to live before they all arrived over the years, i live next door to them , i’m surrounded by them , i have a K+N and DHL distribution hub near me where they all work , now they’re not all bad , but if you lived where i live ( and i’ve been there over 30 years) you’d soon know what i’m talking about. come and fall over the rubbish , get knocked down by a skooze me pliz geezer on a bike or worse get rammed by one, walk by the abandoned car full of empty lager cans and vodka bottles (he legged it after drink driving), spot how many makes of polish lager there are, have a look at the bald tyres on the romanian car.oh yes agard was his name , neat line in drug dealing , legged it a couple of hours before the police, then there was the geezer who had no insurance on his car, then the one who didn’t work but managed to neck lager and vodka all day (at the same time), the woman who screamed at her child all day , the current one who’s in an out about every hour and a half from about 4 pm to about 2am .
believe me till you’ve experienced it you dont know . social discord , nah, normal living for them
and no it wont cure it , they’ll still be here leave or no leave, i’m just explaining why a town like mine would vote to leave
I should apologise for saying “social discord”. Drunken scrotes etc are worse than that.
It sounds like you’ve got a bad deal through no fault of your own, caught in a sinking area.
Councils failing to clear away abandoned cars, police too stretched and underfunded to nip minor crime in the bud, so preventing worse stuff is rife. All true. Crap jobs on minimum wages doesn’t help with optimism for any future.
But the UK is doing well as a nation. Loads of these problems are due to increasing inequity at home.
Seems to me much of the real problems you’re describing are due to years of domestic bad Government.
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What Tony describes could be any city in England Bradford has slowly deteriorated since the early '70s .No investment we dont get the big companies wanting to invest in our city .A large part of the city centre was demolished a few years ago and then a large hole where the shops were was left for years because none of the big companies wanted to put their money into Bradford.The new shopping centre was eventually built but not on the scale of investment in nearby Leeds.The reason being … im not allowed to say but ask any local and they will tell you
If anybody has any interest in how customs will work after a no deal brexit from a hugely knowledgeable and independent source, in between slagging each other off, I’d suggest that they look at what Dr. Anna Jerzewska has to say on the matter. She has a PhD in customs procedures and free trade agreements and currently works for UK Pharmaceuticals in life after brexit and some work for UK government. If you look at what the pharmaceutical industry is saying about impending catastrophe and what is actually happening; if nothing else it proves the size of operation fear.
If the MP’s of the people who voted to leave did the bidding of their constituents , we wouldn’t be in this mess . My MP Andrea Jenkyns has decided it’s not her cup of tea so voted against Terresa May . the MP’s are only interested in one thing , Their own interests ! Leave means Leave .
Speaking personally I’m quite happy to listen to the views of our French resident contributors even though I don’t necessarily agree with them.Difference of opinions is allowed and shouldn’t result in abuse.As it happens I’m slightly envious of their French residency because I live in a small town with some standards not unlike the Wellingborough described above.There is some input from eastern europeans but most is from the drunk/drugged scrotes who are increasingly infesting our country.Standards of decency have certainly changed from when I was a lad.Causes are numerous but the government must take some responsibliity.The 12 years I lived in Belgium was most enjoyable and I now spend 6 months of the year in Spain.It would be 12 months were it not for 'er indoors.
Despite this I am still a Leaver.I don’t want England to become the equivalent of a parish council within a United States of Europe.I believe the EU will implode in a few years anyway.
Gidders:
Speaking personally I’m quite happy to listen to the views of our French resident contributors even though I don’t necessarily agree with them.Difference of opinions is allowed and shouldn’t result in abuse.As it happens I’m slightly envious of their French residency because I live in a small town with some standards not unlike the Wellingborough described above.There is some input from eastern europeans but most is from the drunk/drugged scrotes who are increasingly infesting our country.Standards of decency have certainly changed from when I was a lad.Causes are numerous but the government must take some responsibliity.The 12 years I lived in Belgium was most enjoyable and I now spend 6 months of the year in Spain.It would be 12 months were it not for 'er indoors.
Despite this I am still a Leaver.I don’t want England to become the equivalent of a parish council within a United States of Europe.I believe the EU will implode in a few years anyway.
I welcome your reasoned response Gidders, but if you were to upsticks to Spain the latest sword hanging over thousands of British EU residents, like my wife, would be over you too, is that after Brexit the NHS may no longer pay the various EU health services for their treatment.
Now some might say serve you right, you left, you should not be on the NHS. But it is a government accepted fact that paying these cheaper overseas health services to treat such people is cheaper than them having to come back to Britain and use those services at British prices. And make no mistake about it, they are entitled as British citizens to do so, most having paid into the pot for most if not all of their working lives.
My wife is disabled and recieves 100% free treatment here, it amounts to hundreds of euros each month. For her to stay here I would have to take out insurance for her, the law says the insurance companies can’t refuse but can you guess what the premium would be? Insurance for me alone, a fine upstanding picture of health( 
), is around €1,300 per year. We couldn’t afford even that for her. So what would similar couples be forced to do. Move back to England and sign up again (and possibly in local authority assisted accommodation, yes I know at least one person who recieved all that immediately), split up the marriage with one moving back and one staying, or stay put and hope for the best?
I am not pleading sympathy for myself, I know it will not be forthcoming in this thread of all threads, and in any case, as a French pensioner it doesn’t apply to me, but this is just one of the unintended consequences of Brexit.
Hi Spardo.As you say,there is a lot of dismay in Spain amongst British expats regarding health care.Everybody gets updates from the ambassador but,as you know,things are all up in the air and long term planning is just speculation.I’d like to say"not long now"but who knows.
Personally,because I stay up to a max of 180 days/year I am not considered a resident so I am basically a glorified tourist.
Another busy night in the house of commons and TM bound for Brussels once more only to be told before she leaves do not bother as there will be no change here, when will this charade end. Watched defeat after defeat for motions put forward in the commons tonight for alternative plans and good to see especially Yvette Coopers motion blown out of the water. It seems to me that MP’s do not like any thing Labour puts forward mainly because of there inept leader in JC, they say the Conservatives are split and at loggerheads but Labour are far worse in this department for sure.
As each day passes we get closer to March the 29th but will that be the end of this saga, I am not sure about that. What really bugs me is the fact that the MP’s duly elected to represent the interests and wishes of the nations people think they have the god dam right to remove leaving with NO DEAL and take it off the menu, who the hell do they think they are when what ought to happen is they should carry out the result of the referendum and not try and derail it, remember it was either remain or leave. Of course this goes back to the over confidence that DC had and never expected the result they actually got, one thing for sure is if the EU don’t want to move on the backstop which at the moment looks rigid and if we don’t leave with no deal on the given day in March then democracy in this country of ours is done for, dead and buried.
OK there may be a little disruption at first with no deal but it wont take us long to get moving and sort every thing out, we wont starve or die because we have no medications we will find a way just like we have done in the past, all these scare tactics will dissipate and we will be fine. There will always be people with a negative attitude and for sure I give no credence to politicians as they are all in it for there own financial gains and they are certainly not there for the publics benefit. We certainly do not need to elongate this Brexit issue any further as I think both those who wanted to remain and those who wanted to leave have had about as much as they can take on the subject and we really need to move on and make this country great once more in full control of our own destiny, Buzzer.
Who would want to negotiate with the EU
Cameron egg on face
May same ,Although neither could negotiate extra crackling in a pork n stuffin shop .
Last night was panto ,None of it is binding .
I think she is trying to derail it by continually trying this same deal over and over ,Hoping to try slide in a slimey lock in somewhere .
Either way this is now becoming intolerable.
There are several ways this could all end, this from my reply in another forum:
peake wrote:
I have seen some thick gits in my time, but that mob in the HMG, are thicker than pig ■■■■, in trying it on once again
(I should say that the forum in question is more open than this one in that it doesn’t ban any words and as a consequence such words are hardly ever used at all. The (ZB) above is considered mild and equates to merde in French 
)
My thoughts exactly, only I put it in much stronger terms.
There are severall possible ways out of this impasse. The most likely first:
The deal is chucked back from Brussels, MPs vote the deal and that is the basis for leaving.
Because the EU is not going to let Ireland down, so the border stays, open, with a backstop.
The deal is chucked back from Brussels and gets voted down in Parliament thus No Deal Brexit
The deal is chucked back from Brussels and MPs vote to remain.
And most unlikely of all, Ireland leaves the EU also and preserves the open border that will no longer be an EU border.
And the most most unlikely is the reunification of the island of Ireland. Thus no border at all to squabble over.
I know what I prefer, and I know what most who have posted in this thread prefer, but we are all helpless pawns. Even a new ref or a general election will not heal the wounds.
The leavers got what they wanted they should now be happy
Remember when we voted to join the common market ( I was far to young to vote & don’t remember all of it tbh ) there was a lot of negotiations so there is a lot when we leave & of course the EU don’t want to make it easy so other countries don’t follow suit
Of course we don’t have the great bargaining as we are 1 they have 27 countries behind them so they are the stronger
I don’t think some people knew what they were actually voting for as know this happened a group of people who worked all voted to leave next day went into work all happy we won but the boss walked in told them all to go as now no job due to fact they were funded by the EU money pulled
Spardo:
There are severall possible ways out of this impasse. The most likely first:The deal is chucked back from Brussels, MPs vote the deal and that is the basis for leaving…
Because the EU is not going to let Ireland down, so the border stays, open, with a backstop.
The deal is chucked back from Brussels and gets voted down in Parliament thus No Deal Brexit
The deal is chucked back from Brussels and MPs vote to remain.
And most unlikely of all, Ireland leaves the EU also and preserves the open border that will no longer be an EU border.
And the most most unlikely is the reunification of the Ireland of Ireland. Thus no border at all to squabble over.
I know what I prefer, and I know what most who have posted in this thread prefer, but we are all helpless pawns. Even a new ref or a general election will not heal the wounds.
Under exactly which part of international law does the not even declared de Jure state of the EU have the right to impose any border and border protocols in its own right,over those which are established between two internationally recognised de Facto nation states assuming both or either of those states choose to not recognise nor be subjected to the former ?.
Yes we know UK MP’s are a bunch of EU Federalists.Who ironically can be more easily sorted out by us remaining in Europe and UKIP’s European prescence joining with others around Europe with the intention of smashing the EU from within and creating a Confederal Europe which makes the seperate state legislatures supreme in their own independent right.Either way the UK parliament HOL and Head of State have all shown their true colours and all bets are now off as to the respect and recognition which they’ll be shown in the domestic arena by the Leave vote in that regard.On that note it’s obvious that the best possible outcome from their point of view is May’s BRINO deal which removes the UKIP MEP prescence and isolates the UK from taking part in any rebellion and calls for a Confederal Europe as those stated by the AfD within the EU parliament.Everything so far regarding BREXIT being a charade with that obvious aim.Which leaves the question why would the pro EU Fedralist majority establishment parties want any ‘deal’ which would leave UKIP in place within the European parliament as a thorn in the EU’s side ?.
As for healing any wounds which part of you can’t ‘heal’ the division between Federalist v Nationalist don’t you understand.More like don’t want to understand because as we all know your definition of heal means do as the Federalists say and if saying it doesn’t work true to form they’ll resort to force.
animal:
I don’t think some people knew what they were actually voting for as know this happened a group of people who worked all voted to leave next day went into work all happy we won but the boss walked in told them all to go as now no job due to fact they were funded by the EU money pulled
It would be an insult to the intelligence of the Leave vote to suggest that they weren’t going by the correct premise that the so called ‘funding’ in that case is actually our own money.On the basis that we get less back than we put in and no reason as to why Brexit would automatically mean a stop to such funding.Or in fact even more and better funding without the EU thieving most of it and only giving us back the crumbs.