Anybody have an idea of the average MPG of a Large 3.5t van pulling a heavy box trailer and a 17t Rigid box van running at near full weight?
muckles:
Anybody have an idea of the average MPG of a Large 3.5t van pulling a heavy box trailer and a 17t Rigid box van running at near full weight?
15 mpg. & 12 mpg.
Probably need a bit more specificity Muckles 
billybigrig:
Probably need a bit more specificity Muckles
Agreed it is a pretty open question.
Basically I’m looking at the advantages and dissadvantages of using a Van and Trailer or a rigid to carry a racecar.
We have a 17t rigid already, when putting costs together I estimate it returns about 12mpg.
But the boss wants a van and trailer aswell, so I wanted an estimate of what the van will return pulling a trailer.
I was hoping somebody on here has some experience of using a van a trailer and could give me an idea of the expected MPG.
bald bloke:
muckles:
Anybody have an idea of the average MPG of a Large 3.5t van pulling a heavy box trailer and a 17t Rigid box van running at near full weight?15 mpg. & 12 mpg.
This seems to be in the ball park of what I’d expect.
muckles:
Basically I’m looking at the advantages and dissadvantages of using a Van and Trailer or a rigid to carry a racecar.
We have a 17t rigid already, when putting costs together I estimate it returns about 12mpg.
But the boss wants a van and trailer aswell, so I wanted an estimate of what the van will return pulling a trailer.
I was hoping somebody on here has some experience of using a van a trailer and could give me an idea of the expected MPG.bald bloke:
muckles:
Anybody have an idea of the average MPG of a Large 3.5t van pulling a heavy box trailer and a 17t Rigid box van running at near full weight?15 mpg. & 12 mpg.
This seems to be in the ball park of what I’d expect.
Or there’s another option. 
vans.autotrader.co.uk/fueltype/l … 019/advert
But if you go for the van option don’t forget that it can be possible for the gross weight of the trailer to exceed the max permissable towing weight of many,if not most,vans.
I think theres a couple of models of Iveco 3.5t vans that can tow 3.5t trailers but that’s all and you can’t max out payload on the van without overloading the rear axle.
Things like 5.5t Mercs/Mascotts/Iveco have a more practical GTW but they’ll fall foul of o-licensing.
Having said that, due to VOSAs inability to correctly interpret and implement EU law, you’ll need a tachograph for the 3.5t van you tow with if it’s deemed commercial activity.
Rather than accept the obvious I see they’re now reduced to referring to different types of ‘hire&reward’ in brackets afterwards anywhere they use the phrase in documents they publish. 
If we go down the Van and Trailer route I know we’ll have to be careful about what van we buy, so far I’ve found a few models that have the sort sort of towing capacity we need.
This is a commercial operation and from what I understand not only will we need a tachgraph but also it will have to go on our O licence, Because of this and how similar the MPG’s seem to be and the fact that it’s easier to operate at a circuit in a truck, I can’t see the advantage of it, but the boss seems very keen on the idea.
I think it would only have to go on the o-licence if it was ‘hire&reward’ use.
That’s the ‘hire&reward’ use in it’s normal meaning. It will need a tachograph (probably digital depending on vehicle age) as VOSA schizophrenically also think ‘hire&reward’ is any commercial use when specifically referring to trailer towing.
Something about if you take a catering trailer to a show you’re obviously not a driver for hire but you’re selling burgers for a reward so you need a tachograph - or whatever current dribble they’ve thought up to justify their original error they can’t backpedal from for loss of face and having issued too many fines.
Own Account Driver:
I think it would only have to go on the o-licence if it was ‘hire&reward’ use.That’s the ‘hire&reward’ use in it’s normal meaning. It will need a tachograph (probably digital depending on vehicle age) as VOSA schizophrenically also think ‘hire&reward’ is any commercial use when specifically referring to trailer towing.
Something about if you take a catering trailer to a show you’re obviously not a driver for hire but you’re selling burgers for a reward so you need a tachograph - or whatever current dribble they’ve thought up to justify their original error they can’t backpedal from for loss of face and having issued too many fines.
Yep I agree the regs are a mess, from what I’ve read as the unladen weight of the trailer is over a certain limit and we are a commercial operation then we have to put it on our O licence, but if it was under that weight then it would only need to go on the O licence if we were on standard haulage type Hire and Reward work and what ever we need a tachograph, but only need to use it when towing the trailer.
The need for a tacho leads to another problem as then we have a group of drivers who have no knowledge and even less interest of tacho regs driving the vehicle.
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/small-trailer-leaflet/small-trailer-leaflet.pdf
It’s something like 1100kg unladen which most trailers would be under. Certainly most normal stuff like Ifor Williams I think mines got a payload of 2.5ton so would be under but wouldn’t matter as we’ve got an o-licence anyway.
If it was over I’m not even sure what they mean by subject to operator’s licence. I’m not aware they test trailers under 3.5t. Would the trailer go on the o-licence, the tow van or both? Would you have to have six-weekly maintenance inspection records for the van even if it hadn’t been used all year to tow?
Unless you bought 2nd hand old enough to have analogue tacho you’d have to get digi-cards for drivers and they’d have to abide by everything that entails including calibration.
If you’re going to want to be compliant with the relevant authorities (realistically you’ve got no choice if you’re an o-licence holder already) towing 3.5t trailers doesn’t really offer any benefits I don’t think.
The trailer he’s looking at is one of these Brian James covered race transporters, they are upto 1400kg unladen.
I don’t have a problem with driving a properly set-up van and trialer, but I don’t think it’s the right way for us.
The idea keeps coming up, this time it’s because the rigid broke down and he borrowed a trailer from somebody. The trailer has sat for many years and looks like it, but it’s up for sale and he thinks it will be cheap, but it as it needs to be completely refurbished.
Now I’ve got an idea as to the MPG’s I can give him the economic argument, that will put him off for a couple more months.
I used to get about 19 mpg from a 90 Hp transit 2.4 on an '02 plate. That was dragging a 1.5 ton digger and buckets most of the time round the lanes in Devon.
Does it have to be a van? Could you not use a discovery? Take the back seats out if you need more space.
mucker85:
Does it have to be a van? Could you not use a discovery? Take the back seats out if you need more space.
A van is a better option, if we have to use a van and trailer at a circuit, we’d have to carry tools boxes, wheels and tyres, spares, ezy-up awning etc.
Even the guys the use the rigid we have, use a van as a back up vehicle to carry extra kit when they go racing.
And for the race series I work on we have 2 artics to get all our gear to the circuits.
Also as team we already have 2x 7 seater cars and a 5 seat pick-up to move team members round, so a van is more useful than another 7 seater.
But really looking at the difference in transport costs against the practicality, I still think another truck is a better option than a van and trailer.
We tow a 2.5 tonne trailer behind a Jumbo Transit and get about 23mpg.
muckles:
The trailer he’s looking at is one of these Brian James covered race transporters, they are upto 1400kg unladen.I don’t have a problem with driving a properly set-up van and trialer, but I don’t think it’s the right way for us.
The idea keeps coming up, this time it’s because the rigid broke down and he borrowed a trailer from somebody. The trailer has sat for many years and looks like it, but it’s up for sale and he thinks it will be cheap, but it as it needs to be completely refurbished.Now I’ve got an idea as to the MPG’s I can give him the economic argument, that will put him off for a couple more months.
Brian James are probably the best, although I am with you in wanting a small rigid. My friend races long track and he has just returned form St Macaire in the Gironde. They get between 30 & 33 mpg with a 120hoss Sprinter, with a trailer this drops to around 24mpg. One thing that did become a shock was ferry charges, the van and caravan cost almost as much as a lorry on DFDS.
On a sailing forum I visit they are talking about 17 - 24 mpg pulling a large day sailer with a vivaro or a transit. MB seem to do better than that, but how about load security, tyres and driver acceptance.
A new Brian James is coming in between 6 and 13k depending on gismos, axles and strength. From my days at Ontime Auto I would sooner have two Ferraris on the ramps inside a rigid lorry than one of them floating about in a trailer on a ball hitch.