Les Sylphides:
I’ve read the Lorries of Arabia books. I’m quite into those 7MWs. Can anyone explain why the second two volumes contradict the first volume to such an extent? Just as you get the facts straight in your head, along comes another book and changes everything.
Welcome aboard! Fair comment. 7MW refers only to the cab, by the way. I do appreciate your frustration. The 3 books rather echo this thread in that all the facts and information have been pieced together with the help of many contributors on TruckNet plus a number of very well-informed actors outside the TruckNet community.
Unfortunately, during the earlier parts of this thread and in the early stages of Book 1, a number of false premises were established, based on misinformation and assumptions. This was nobody’s fault in particular, but earlier writings than those on here also contained incorrect facts. This is pretty normal in historical research. For instance it was quite naturally assumed by some writers that ERF made 6x4 NGCs, or RHD ones. But they didn’t make either. By and large, everyone did their best to try and verify everything and to make sure that all information agreed. We all pulled together and I can think of only one contributor who tried to throw a spanner in the works and rather slowed the process down. Another problem was that some of the options published in ERF brochures never came to fruition, like Gardner-engined NGCs for example.
There were many variables to consider. We knew almost nothing about 91 lorries! Some turned out to have been re-registered part of the way through their lives. Others had been reconfigured as 6x4s or given 13-sp Fullers to replace their 9-sp ones; or had replacement, bigger engines. Many had changed hands several times during their working lives. Some had even changed nationality.
By the second book I had learned to be much more ruthless about double-checking data and not accepting anecdotal evidence without either written or pictorial evidence. Wherever possible I sought primary sources, as a transport historian should, and I was able to contact several original operators of NGCs. Books 2 & 3 corrected book 1 and remain pretty accurate today.
The most recent example of this was the Cauvas NGC which was originally thought to be an NGC 852 and factory built as a 6x4. Then we discovered pictures of it as a 4x2. We also discovered that no 6x4s left the factory. Someone posited that its cab had been grafted onto an earlier MDC 852; and someone else claimed it had received a Volvo rear-end. It wasn’t until a French magazine turned up with the Volvo evidence that we knew the truth. And we’ve more or less had to go through this process with all 91 of them! Work is still in progress with many of them.
Les Sylphides:
I’ve read the Lorries of Arabia books. I’m quite into those 7MWs. Can anyone explain why the second two volumes contradict the first volume to such an extent? Just as you get the facts straight in your head, along comes another book and changes everything.
Welcome aboard! Fair comment. 7MW refers only to the cab, by the way. I do appreciate your frustration. The 3 books rather echo this thread in that all the facts and information have been pieced together with the help of many contributors on TruckNet plus a number of very well-informed actors outside the TruckNet community.
Unfortunately, during the earlier parts of this thread and in the early stages of Book 1, a number of false premises were established, based on misinformation and assumptions. This was nobody’s fault in particular, but earlier writings than those on here also contained incorrect facts. This is pretty normal in historical research. For instance it was quite naturally assumed by some writers that ERF made 6x4 NGCs, or RHD ones. But they didn’t make either. By and large, everyone did their best to try and verify everything and to make sure that all information agreed. We all pulled together and I can think of only one contributor who tried to throw a spanner in the works and rather slowed the process down. Another problem was that some of the options published in ERF brochures never came to fruition, like Gardner-engined NGCs for example.
There were many variables to consider. We knew almost nothing about 91 lorries! Some turned out to have been re-registered part of the way through their lives. Others had been reconfigured as 6x4s or given 13-sp Fullers to replace their 9-sp ones; or had replacement, bigger engines. Many had changed hands several times during their working lives. Some had even changed nationality.
By the second book I had learned to be much more ruthless about double-checking data and not accepting anecdotal evidence without either written or pictorial evidence. Wherever possible I sought primary sources, as a transport historian should, and I was able to contact several original operators of NGCs. Books 2 & 3 corrected book 1 and remain pretty accurate today.
The most recent example of this was the Cauvas NGC which was originally thought to be an NGC 852 and factory built as a 6x4. Then we discovered pictures of it as a 4x2. We also discovered that no 6x4s left the factory. Someone posited that its cab had been grafted onto an earlier MDC 852; and someone else claimed it had received a Volvo rear-end. It wasn’t until a French magazine turned up with the Volvo evidence that we knew the truth. And we’ve more or less had to go through this process with all 91 of them! Work is still in progress with many of them.
Ro
Thanks for such a comprehensive reply - I was half expecting a rebuff! LOL
A little info on the Eric vick Merc Lps, it started life as one of two mercs bought new by my farther Pete Robson who drove the Vijore ERF European on M/E and Pakistan, he ran 3 of these mercs on european then a southampton container base went bust on him and took him for a lot of money so he sold them and got the job on vijore where he spent several years doing M/E to earn enough to pay off his debts.
I Still have your first book on my desk at work and often glance through it
A little info on the Eric vick Merc Lps, it started life as one of two mercs bought new by my farther Pete Robson who drove the Vijore ERF European on M/E and Pakistan, he ran 3 of these mercs on european then a southampton container base went bust on him and took him for a lot of money so he sold them and got the job on vijore where he spent several years doing M/E to earn enough to pay off his debts.
I Still have your first book on my desk at work and often glance through it
Regards Adrian Robson
A nice link to another piece in the jigsaw of transport history! Thanks for that Adrian. Your old man certainly made the ultimate trip in any NGC that I know of!
DEANB:
Ro, This is a very intresting new pic of Pountains ERF in the last colours they operated in,and it shows it driving off a ferry with a 80 ton cased press crown.
Whats really intresting is where its coming off the ferry. Montreal,Canada !!
My friend Dave Lee sent me a copy of this brochure that also features another pic of the ERF when it was in the grey livery.
If you still have ■■■■ Pountain’s contact details it may be worth double checking that it was shipped to Montreal but it clearly states it in the brochure.
I see in 1981 that the Atlantic Container Line operated between Liverpool and Montreal so possibly the route used.
A note to any regular followers of this thread: I have removed the April Fool posts I made earlier in the year about an Astran NGC, lest future transport historians be led up the garden path!
ERF-NGC-European:
ERF-Continental kindly posted this on the Clearing House thread.
It shows the availability of the elusive ‘olive green’ NGC that monsieur ‘Saviem’ reported some years ago. The description is detailed and agrees with the published advert (which I have added, below).
For some reason there are changes of detail are erroneously recorded against No.81 on my register in that it appears to have had an RT (not RTO) 9509; and was registered in 1976, not 1977.
This vehicle remains a mystery. We thought at first it might have belonged to Prooi of Barendrecht but it was later shown that they only ran a B-series ERF. It remains to be known who owned it first and to whom it went subsequently.
10
On the above (in colour) letter and sequence:
3x New chassisnumbers #33626 3,52WB Grey ex-Sandbach, Viking seat, #34029 and # 34662, both in grey ex-Sandbach and all three NTCE290, Fuller 9513RTO
1x New chassisnumber #34673 3.30WB, Grey ex-Sandbach
1x New chassisnumber #33505 3,30WB RAL-yellow, non-sleeper, Viking-seat, NH250, 9513RTO
ERF-NGC-European:
ERF-Continental kindly posted this on the Clearing House thread.
It shows the availability of the elusive ‘olive green’ NGC that monsieur ‘Saviem’ reported some years ago. The description is detailed and agrees with the published advert (which I have added, below).
For some reason there are changes of detail are erroneously recorded against No.81 on my register in that it appears to have had an RT (not RTO) 9509; and was registered in 1976, not 1977.
This vehicle remains a mystery. We thought at first it might have belonged to Prooi of Barendrecht but it was later shown that they only ran a B-series ERF. It remains to be known who owned it first and to whom it went subsequently.
10
On the above (in colour) letter and sequence:
3x New chassisnumbers #33626 3,52WB Grey ex-Sandbach, Viking seat, #34029 and # 34662, both in grey ex-Sandbach and all three NTCE290, Fuller 9513RTO
1x New chassisnumber #34673 3.30WB, Grey ex-Sandbach
1x New chassisnumber #33505 3,30WB RAL-yellow, non-sleeper, Viking-seat, NH250, 9513RTO
ERF-NGC-European:
ERF-Continental kindly posted this on the Clearing House thread.
It shows the availability of the elusive ‘olive green’ NGC that monsieur ‘Saviem’ reported some years ago. The description is detailed and agrees with the published advert (which I have added, below).
For some reason there are changes of detail are erroneously recorded against No.81 on my register in that it appears to have had an RT (not RTO) 9509; and was registered in 1976, not 1977.
This vehicle remains a mystery. We thought at first it might have belonged to Prooi of Barendrecht but it was later shown that they only ran a B-series ERF. It remains to be known who owned it first and to whom it went subsequently.
10
On the above (in colour) letter and sequence:
3x New chassisnumbers #33626 3,52WB Grey ex-Sandbach, Viking seat, #34029 and # 34662, both in grey ex-Sandbach and all three NTCE290, Fuller 9513RTO
1x New chassisnumber #34673 3.30WB, Grey ex-Sandbach
1x New chassisnumber #33505 3,30WB RAL-yellow, non-sleeper, Viking-seat, NH250, 9513RTO
A moment of bliss on a Sunday afternoon is when someone sends you a hazy picture from FB and it turns out to be a new NGC picture! Apparently they’re arguing on FB about whether or not the yellow & green unit on the left is a Transcon. Well, we know what it is, don’t we! Yes, it’s one of the two Beresford-liveried ERF NGCs (either GEH 313N or JDF 132N). I wonder which port it’s in. Could be Le Havre, as Beresford had one of those NGCs on French plates for a while running in and out of Le Havre docks.
ERF-NGC-European:
A moment of bliss on a Sunday afternoon is when someone sends you a hazy picture from FB and it turns out to be a new NGC picture! Apparently they’re arguing on FB about whether or not the yellow & green unit on the left is a Transcon. Well, we know what it is, don’t we! Yes, it’s one of the two Beresford-liveried ERF NGCs (either GEH 313N or JDF 132N). I wonder which port it’s in. Could be Le Havre, as Beresford had one of those NGCs on French plates for a while running in and out of Le Havre docks.
Ro
Just found out that the pic was taken in Dover and you would imagine it would be Albert Dales one in that case.
The orange Transcon opposite looks like Roland Simey an owner driver.
ERF-NGC-European:
A moment of bliss on a Sunday afternoon is when someone sends you a hazy picture from FB and it turns out to be a new NGC picture! Apparently they’re arguing on FB about whether or not the yellow & green unit on the left is a Transcon. Well, we know what it is, don’t we! Yes, it’s one of the two Beresford-liveried ERF NGCs (either GEH 313N or JDF 132N). I wonder which port it’s in. Could be Le Havre, as Beresford had one of those NGCs on French plates for a while running in and out of Le Havre docks.
Ro
Just found out that the pic was taken in Dover and you would imagine it would be Albert Dales one in that case.
The orange Transcon opposite looks like Roland Simey an owner driver.
These ^^^ are the two likely culprits.
The first one, GEH 313N, was operated in Beresford colours by Albert Dale.
The second one, JDF 132N, was one of Beresford’s own (Photo: Roy Mead).
you mean the best-looking “[zb”] MDC (as it wasn’t an NGC). Great pic!! 
